A Minimal Refining Procedure for beginners???

[patnor1011]

I second what Claudie said. Chemicals will cost more than you will recover. Good thing is that if you do AP you can reuse chemicals for next few batches. I would say that copper and aluminium from listed items will bring you more cash than gold. If you have access to more cell phones you can try to increase volume of material you want to process.

 

[car]

Thanks for all the humbling advice guys!
I'm kinda one foot in and one out at this point, as I mentioned in my original post I was really only interested in a one-pop shot, half an oz. was my preferred goal (granted for all the learning it requires and if things go good I'd be insane not to try and make an on-going hobby of it). I guess I over estimated a lot on gold amounts, I thought I might get lucky and extract half an oz. from all my junk, but I see that's not the case. Unless I find something good that I've overlooked I'm going to have to start collecting more junk. So my question here is what electronics have the gold in them? And is it at all feasible for me to be setting half(even a quarter) oz. as a goal? I know even a small fraction of gold is still a lot of money so I can already see where this is going, but at what abundance of material does a quarter of an oz. start seeming feasible? I assume before you even start mixing your concoction you'd want to have about that amount anyways? I think I can round up some more cell phones but I don't think I can profit on jewelery. Whats the consensus?

I know you guys probably deal with guys like me all the time and its probably frustrating when most of them get over-whelmed and disappear, so thank you all for putting up with me and sharing all your secrets on this forum. (I'm not saying goodbye I'm just saying thank you) I really love what you guys do and am more interested in doing the alchemical trick of turning trash into treasure than making quick-cash (well... maybe some quick-silver).
Thanks

 

[Geo]

it takes roughly 150 desktop computers to make an ounce of gold.

it takes roughly 2,000 cell phones to make and ounce of gold.

but out of the same amounts your looking at about 20 ounces of silver, not to forget about the palladium at about 6 ounces. this came from a web search so yields could be higher or lower. but the point is, if your going to refine part of it, you might as well get it all.

 

[car]

Thanks Geo.
Yeah I even collect copper so I hear ya, plus isn't silver a growing market lately?
I had a feeling it was by the truck loads, we could get out the calculator and do some math (i think 1000 grams is an ounce, no?) but if we assume gold to be $2000 an ounce and 2000 cell phones make an ounce, that makes every cell phone worth $1(Granted we know what we're doing, your calculations are head on, and gold market is exactly $2000 oz.). 500 cell phones = quarter ounce, I have a lot of collecting to do. I have one junk desktop and one junk laptop, where do laptops fall into all this? I guess I DONT have 500 bucks stashed away in my junk hoard.
-Still Hopeful

EDIT to mention palladium: wow just noticed it at the bottom, that's one awesome metal, its almost at $700, its 6x more abundant than gold, for 25 desktops there's $700 worth of palladium alone in it.
-Growing hopeful by the minute

 

[Geo]

31.1 grams in a troy ounce. 31.1g = 1OZT

cell phones may have $0.85 worth of PM's in it. but that's stretching it.

laptops are worth more in spare parts with a little over half the PM's a desktop has.

the real money in electronics is the copper, aluminum and steel that accumulates while collecting the "good" parts.

 

[patnor1011]

it takes roughly 150 desktop computers to make an ounce of gold.

it takes roughly 2,000 cell phones to make and ounce of gold.

but out of the same amounts your looking at about 20 ounces of silver, not to forget about the palladium at about 6 ounces. this came from a web search so yields could be higher or lower. but the point is, if your going to refine part of it, you might as well get it all.

I know that these are only rough estimates but I would say that they are on really high side.
20oz Ag in 150 desktops? That is about 4,1g per desktop and that looks to me too high of an estimate or expectation.
6oz Pd in 150 desktops? That is about 1,25g per desktop and while I know Pd can be found in monolythic capacitors I do not think there is 70+ grams of them in one desktop. There is about 3-4grams (maximum) of monolythics in one desktop (mobo, RAM, video and network card, DVD/CD rom) and some Pd may be inside black chips.

I have no problem with your silver estimate but do not think you can find one tenth of your estimated Pd content in 150 desktops.

 

[Geo]

yea, thats from the web. i thought it was wildly over estimated too. thats why i said it was from the web. im just saying if it were only a fraction of all that, if your going to go after any of it, you might as well get it all.

 

[patnor1011]

No probs, I was just reacting to what Car said.

...EDIT to mention palladium: wow just noticed it at the bottom, that's one awesome metal, its almost at $700, its 6x more abundant than gold, for 25 desktops there's $700 worth of palladium alone in it.
-Growing hopeful by the minute

Sorry to disappoint you but my data show something different. You look at about 50-100 grams of monolythics in 25 desktop and that will get you 2-4g of Pd maximum 40-80 $. There will be some more in black chips but probably less than in monolythics so lets say we look at one tenth of what you thought there is. I dont know where else there may be Pd in desktops apart from monolythics and black chips.

 

[car]

Well just some questions guys. I'm going through my cell phone bag and had to put a few back together that were already ripped apart by someone. Looking at them, there's a lot of gold, are all these gold lines real gold? And what about the tiny writing that looks the same, even a little picture of a battery where the battery goes, this couldn't also be gold? My point is I'm having a hard time separating whats gold and whats not. Also are the charger teeth gold plated also? Same with the battery teeth, cuz these look the same as the gold lines(which I'm assuming is the gold we're referring to).
Another thing, what about 'pagers' (remember the 90s when those were all the rage?) anything in them? I found this motorola tiny pager looking thing, not sure what it is unless its someones garage door opener. :lol: How about them also? or remote controls? I only ask because cell phones have that piece of gold that connects the antenna, although remotes aren't exactly antennas, but pagers kinda are. If you haven't noticed I don't understand the technology or golds usage in it.
Every bit counts even if its one billionth the size of a crumb.
Thanks in advance for any light shed.

@patnor1011, yeah not a disappointment, I should have figured as much when I thought I was the only one noticing palladium's true potential, quite a few of you guys would be self made millionaires by now if you could turn 25 PCs into $700(not to mention the other PMs)

 

[Geo]

most everything that's gold colored in a cell phone is gold plated, but its there for shielding and is very thin. it shields the electronics from outside radio interference.

 

[butcher]

Car,
Sterling and Karat gold scrap is an obtainable source, I recommend you look for these, the electronic scrap adds to the pocket but not as much as the higher value scrap, but if you do not spend time educating yourself, on value, what to buy and how much, and how to resale, recover or refine, you can loose everything in that pocket.

Education is the real gold mine, quit looking for it in that shinny lil bit of gold plating on one cell phone, and dig into the real gold mine, the forum, and Hokes book.

 

[butcher]

Car, I notice you reading this now.
Hoke's, also has another book on testing, pawnbrokers guide is also a very valueable tool, buying and resale is another option.

If you want to chat here we can.

 

[car]

Car,
Sterling and Karat gold scrap is an obtainable source, I recommend you look for these, the electronic scrap adds to the pocket but not as much as the higher value scrap, but if you do not spend time educating yourself, on value, what to buy and how much, and how to resale, recover or refine, you can loose everything in that pocket.

Education is the real gold mine, quit looking for it in that shinny lil bit of gold plating on one cell phone, and dig into the real gold mine, the forum, and Hokes book.

Haha, I was waiting for someone to yell at me about going to study, I know I've been provoking it. But I've been reading the forum looking for things that speak to me at my level. Thanks butcher, I agree I need to make my way around to serious studying, I'm still greasing the wheels on this whole endeavor but that's not gonna get me to the end result.
I do recall my brother telling me he found a gold necklace at a pawn shop that didn't seem to know it was real gold, is this what you guys do? I'd hate to steal grandmas jewelery(rest her heart) and melt it down, solely because I'd consider it antique and would feel bad(even if it were mine). But is that profitable? I see what your saying about knowing what your dealing with and understanding the business end. So could it be more profitable as refined gold than its current state as jewelery? I'm guessing you'd just have to get lucky and get a good deal on it. Did i miss anything on places to find jewelery? Your right my supply is short by a long shot so I'll keep an eye out.
Thanks for sticking with me everyone!

 

[butcher]

Although the higher price of gold has brought many people's attention to it, there is literally tons of jewelry and sterling that is being scrapped.

Many people have no Idea about its value in that old shoe box of mismatched broken or just old jewelry, some think it is all worth something much more than it is (actual junk), or think that the ole junk is just not worth that much, many people may need a few dollars so they take this junk to a buyer, he may or may not give them a fair price, many buyers do not, or at a second hand store although rare you may find a sterling silver cup the store worker missed for 50 cents, at a garage sale you may ask the lady does she have any junk jewelry she has to sell, she may say yes boxes of that old junk.

If you know how to test, read hallmarks, be able to calculate value, you can give people a fair price, you may outbid the competition (pawn shop or cash for gold), who know the lady at the garage sale, may just be looking for you her friends all could sell there junk for a few dollars'

I live in the country, and so I do not frequent garage sales, I do buy scrap from my local gold dealer, for melt value, so I pay a little more today, but years from now when I need some bread it will be worth more dollars (and I will be able to buy as much bread as I can today).

You do not always need to learn just how to use chemicals here, there is information in this forum for a wide range of ways people can use the gold or silver for profit.

You are just hurting yourself if you do not dive in and study this gold mine of information.
Even if you never touch an acid bottle there is information here you could use one day.

I knew you were on the fence, and that once you learned how little the gold was in your scrap that you may decide to get back on the other side, studying will not cost you anything, but a little time, and who knows you may find that hidden treasure in this map the forum has made.

I just wish I knew what I know now, when I was a young man.

And If I do not learn today, when I am older, I will regret I did not take the opportunity to do so.

 

[Claudie]

Very well said Butcher.

 

[car]

Thanks Butcher, I am a young man so your point has hit home for me. I think I may or may not have some scrap laying around already, but in these few days I've already began seeing items differently, and I think I know what to feasibly expect to get from them. Even if I never act on this endeavor being here has already changed my perspective on my day to day life, I'm sure it will pay off ten fold someday, even if I walk away right now and never look back. But as for now I'm going to go get lost in the forum, everyone feel free to add anything else to this topic. I'm sure there's hundreds of nooby topics like this but I think this thread turned out really well, for lifting a nooby spirit and also humbling them to how the game works and what to feasibly expect, I know it really helped me. Not so sure it belongs in the Chemicals section though.
Thanks for everything everyone, this is a great community!

 

[car]

Just want to say, I also have a metal detector and live in a 100 year old farm house but have never used it here. This place has made me realize how stupid I've been for putting it off this long, maybe THAT will be my big break. I know you guys have a metal detector section also, I'm excited to graph off this lot foot by foot and go looking.

 

[butcher]

Years ago my daughter at 12 years old got a job babysitting for a neighbor (newborn premature), she also worked a vineyard (grape fields), she did not make much by the hour, (the wet backs she worked with made more by the hour), I told her to save her money and buy silver, silver then was about $2.80 per ounce, payday she would buy silver with her hard earned money, at seventeen years old she wanted to buy a piece of property, she cashed in her silver for $10,000 dollars and put it down on the property 6 Acres of beautiful forest trees some four foot diameter, well we started cutting trees and digging stumps & putting in a road, and clearing her a home pad, she made a deal with me, if I borrowed money on my house she would pay me back, I borrowed 50 thousand against my home, and we put her in a well electric and septic system, doing much of the work ourselves, we found a double wide manufacture home a guy gave me if would take it apart and moved it, we moved it out there and put it together and fixed it up, at the age of 23 she had paid off the loan she promised, and she owned her own home on 6 acres of forest land in the country worth $230,000 at that time.

Car, save those pennies, work hard, if you do not have a job start one, or start your own small business, buy silver, and when you have time to relax grab that metal detector and have fun.

A young man nowadays had best learn hard work, and put his money into the valuable metals, the dollar is loosing value fast, and it looks like hard times are on the way again, if a young man is smart he will work hard and get ahead in this game, or possibly go hungry later.

Do not be grasshopper summer may come to an end before you know it, prepare for winter.

 

[Claudie]

That's good advice Butcher. If you can't afford to buy Silver, save those pennies anyway, the Copper ones.

 

[nickvc]

For what it's worth my opinion is you seem bright, keen and eager to learn, put it to use and read up on sources of values, how to find them and how to identify what's worth saving and what's best sold on.
The forum is full of useful tips and breakdowns of values and for you your best bet is to locate more material and keep saving up till you have enough to start your experiments in recovery and refining.
The whole world is looking for an easy buck but in this business as your starting to see it's far from easy and knowledge is the key to success. The value of e scrap is mainly in base metals the precious metals are but a small part and should be viewed as a bonus unless you can find big volumes on a regular basis.
Start by looking how others are trying to source material, our own Joem has some good ideas, collect and learn as you go, make some money selling the base metals and hoard your sources of values until you have enough to make it worth your while or simply sell on and buy bullion.
There's many ways to make some money from this business and no one size fits all it all depends on whether you want to refine, it's not for everyone, or simply consolidate and sell. Get reading it's on here it just takes some effort to find it and then to put it into practice.
I wish you luck and remember the forum helps the most those who help themselves.