A Minimal Refining Procedure for beginners???

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Ya man I'm 31. I was watching Burt Wolf on PBS, he was somewhere panning for gold. That resparked my rock hound! Which long story short, here I am! I have a background in chemistry...more like a backyard but I kno a lil. I'm also buying silver every chance I get. All of this is a new hobbie for me. I keep atleast 2 projects going all the time. I grow edable mushrooms and brew alcohol. I'm going dredging for gold when the weather turns with someone I met on Vagold which is where I found this forum! I'm not in it to get rich! Jus looking forward.

This is a great forum. Very kind and careing people. Do your homework , read Hoke!

For me FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION!
 
car said:
Well the reason I posted this in chemicals is cuz thats the main thing I wanted a way around. But equipment is actually the #1 thing I'd like to avoid, I really dont feasibly see myself ever investing in the equipment, are you saying every one of you is using boughten equipment? There must be some in-between no? I dont want to discourage people from answering(which I'm sure I am doing) but I just wanted to clear a few things up before I delve into all this. Is there really no way for a guy to 'pure-profit' this whole operation from scratch? I'm sure I'll have to give in on a few elements, but could you tell me some short-cuts or tricks for a cheap skater like myself. I would really like to minimalize the whole science lab as much as possible, I'm really very serious about this and am excited to make it work.
Thanks for the response btw
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Doe's A surgeon preform surgery with outa scalpel?
 
martyn111 said:
Safety gear is your first investment, goggles, gloves, face mask, apron all of which need to be able to withstand chemicals.
Fume hood is essential if you intend to refine indoors.
If you are going to do it indoors then a dedicated building not in your home.
Chemicals, the minimum you will require is hydrochloric acid,for gold, plus household bleach, hydrogen peroxide and sodium metabisulphite.
The rest you could do with odds and sods you can find around the house.

The best investment you could make at this point is investing your time in reading Hoke's book, get yourself a free copy here
http://dominionrefining.com/files/Refining_Precious_Metal_Wastes_CM_Hoke.pdf

Edit to provide download link
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I have been researching and reading makin my list of necessary chemicals to disslove gold. Can anyone help me out with what I can use as substitutes to accomplish the process. I live in the sticks and only have a small hardware store with a very limited selection of chemicals. The shipping costs on these chemicals is high and if I can use common household chemicals it would sure make things simpler.

Stannous Chloride crosses with ??? :?:
Sodium Metabisulfite crosses with ??? :?:
32 % hydrocloric acid crosses with Muriatic Acid ??? :?:
70 % Nitric Acid crosses with ??? :?:
98% Sulfric acid crosses with battery acid 30% not as efficent but can be done ??? :?:
 
Stannous Chloride crosses with???

You can make your own stannous chloride (tin dissolved in Hydrochloric acid) (HCl is also called Muriatic acid, used in cleaning brick and concrete, or for swimming pools).

HCl (hydrochloric acid can be made from NaCl, (rock salt and sulfuric acid, with the HCl gas formed from the reaction bubbled into water).

Ferrous sulfate (also called copperas, or iron sulfate) you can also test for gold using a crystal of copperas in a spot plate it will test for gold for gold in solution, and the copperas will precipitate gold from solutions (you can make this copperas from 10% sulfuric acid and the soft iron plates from transformers (I have a couple of posts with details).

Sodium Metabisulfite crosses with???
SMB it is used in wine making to sterilize the bottles, also called SMB, sodium sulfite will also work, some stump removers are actually SMB, (some stump removers are potassium nitrate, which is another useful chemical to have on your shelf) ferrous sulfate will work similar to SMB in precipitating gold although the chemistry is a bit different.

32 % hydrochloric acid crosses with Muriatic Acid???


Yes, see above, check the hardware store, brick or construction supply houses, or pool supply house.

70 % Nitric Acid crosses with???.

You can make nitric acid from the potassium nitrate, or sodium nitrate fertilizer, and sulfuric acid ok for most reactions, but for silver the sulfate salts formed need to be removed by distilling the nitric acid, other sources of nitric acid is mining supply houses and chemical warehouses.

Poor mans aqua regia is one of these nitrate salts in HCL.

98% Sulfuric acid crosses with battery acid 30% not as efficient but can be done???

Battery acid, sulfuric acid can be concentrated up to around 98% by evaporating off the water, another source is some brands of drain cleaners.

Nitric acid has an azeotrope around 68% so that is as high as you can concentrate a weak nitric acid using evaporation, but that is as strong as you will need it for aqua regia, and the nitric acid is diluted with water to dissolve silver and, or base metals.

HCl azeotrope is somewhere around 20 %.

There are other methods to dissolve gold and some of the platinum group metals, depending on what you are processing, HCl/NaClO (bleach) (sodium hypochlorite), or HCl/32% H2O2 are some of the more common solutions.

Study Hokes book and the forum and learn the tricks before spending too much on supplies.
[
 
butcher said:
Stannous Chloride crosses with???

You can make your own stannous chloride (tin dissolved in Hydrochloric acid) (HCl is also called Muriatic acid, used in cleaning brick and concrete, or for swimming pools).

HCl (hydrochloric acid can be made from NaCl, (rock salt and sulfuric acid, with the HCl gas formed from the reaction bubbled into water).

Ferrous sulfate (also called copperas, or iron sulfate) you can also test for gold using a crystal of copperas in a spot plate it will test for gold for gold in solution, and the copperas will precipitate gold from solutions (you can make this copperas from 10% sulfuric acid and the soft iron plates from transformers (I have a couple of posts with details).

Sodium Metabisulfite crosses with???
SMB it is used in wine making to sterilize the bottles, also called SMB, sodium sulfite will also work, some stump removers are actually SMB, (some stump removers are potassium nitrate, which is another useful chemical to have on your shelf) ferrous sulfate will work similar to SMB in precipitating gold although the chemistry is a bit different.

32 % hydrochloric acid crosses with Muriatic Acid???


Yes, see above, check the hardware store, brick or construction supply houses, or pool supply house.

70 % Nitric Acid crosses with???.

You can make nitric acid from the potassium nitrate, or sodium nitrate fertilizer, and sulfuric acid ok for most reactions, but for silver the sulfate salts formed need to be removed by distilling the nitric acid, other sources of nitric acid is mining supply houses and chemical warehouses.

Poor mans aqua regia is one of these nitrate salts in HCL.

98% Sulfuric acid crosses with battery acid 30% not as efficient but can be done???

Battery acid, sulfuric acid can be concentrated up to around 98% by evaporating off the water, another source is some brands of drain cleaners.

Nitric acid has an azeotrope around 68% so that is as high as you can concentrate a weak nitric acid using evaporation, but that is as strong as you will need it for aqua regia, and the nitric acid is diluted with water to dissolve silver and, or base metals.

HCl azeotrope is somewhere around 20 %.

There are other methods to dissolve gold and some of the platinum group metals, depending on what you are processing, HCl/NaClO (bleach) (sodium hypochlorite), or HCl/32% H2O2 are some of the more common solutions.

Study Hokes book and the forum and learn the tricks before spending too much on supplies.
[
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Thanks for the info. I am specifically looking for information to dissolve gold. What household chemicals can be used to disslove gold instead of

Muriatic Acid can be used for 32 % hydrocloric acid
potassium nitrate, or sodium nitrate fertilizer can be used for 70 % Nitric Acid
battery acid which is 30% can be used and refined in liue of 98% Sulfric acid
sodium sulfite will also work, some stump removers are actually SMB, (some stump removers are potassium nitrate can be used for Sodium Metabisulfite
(tin dissolved in Hydrochloric acid) (HCl is also called Muriatic acid, used in cleaning brick and concrete, or for swimming pools can be used to make Stannous Chloride
 
Bonide stump remover MSDS
http://www.bonide.com/lbonide/msds/msds271.pdf
sodium pyro sulphite, is just another name for sodium metabisulfite.
(Edited spelling mistake and added another link)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metabisulfite

Spectracide brand stump remover MSDS
http://www.spectracide.com/~/media/Spectracide/Files/MSDS/Other/SpectracideStumpRemover_MSDS_DEC0308.ashx

Check labels and MSDS sheets.
 
In this video there is a picture of Stump Out (mfgrd by Bonide).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNq3Tp99XOE[/youtube]

Stump Out can be bought at Home Depot and at Ace Hardware. When you buy, ask for an MSDS and they will give you one.

It is sodium metabisulfite and it can be used to precipitate gold from Gold Chloride solutions.

Before use, dissolve in water to make a saturated solution and run it through a filter paper because it does have small amounts of dirt and other solids.

The filtered solution will work nicely to precipitate gold powder from AuCl2 solutions.

kadriver
 
Edit for spelling

Also, make sure to do the precipitation outside or in a fume hood.

When the Stump out (in solution or powder form) is added to the AuCl, a poison gas is given off that will gag you.

I think it is sulfur dioxide gas. If you breath this gas then it will mix with the moisture in you lungs and form sulfuirc acid.

kadriver
 
kadriver said:
Before use, dissolve in water to make a saturated solution and run it through a filter paper because it does have small amounts of dirt and other solids.
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I wonder how many of the readers would have drawn that conclusion? I expect not many, as I have read that the precipitant has been applied dry by some.
Hygiene in the lab is key to the desired end result. A tough lesson for some folks to learn.

Harold
 
I routinely use dry SMB to precipitate gold. I purchase chemically pure SMB.

There are many over the counter (OTC) substitutes for refining chemicals that contain impurities. Some of these contaminates can be removed with filtering others can not.


Steve
 

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