Non-Chemical A new toy to mess with! A grinding mill!

[924T]

I have been seriously considering the possibility of using a gas engine, instead of electric, as a way
of getting around not having 220v.

I saw on the Gold-Mill website that almost all of their mills come with a gas engine.
Very, very nice mills, but out of my price range right now.

As far as I can tell, the biggest hurdle would be properly mating the engine up to the mill.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[ericrm]

thank you for the link

The fact that the national electrical code (NEC) requires the doorbell to be on its own breaker just blows
my mind-------if it weren't for that, I believe 2 breakers could be tied together and result in a 220v circuit.

my door bell is wireless. you could just put one of those and free your breaker... just saying.

 

[924T]

ericrm,

That's an incredible suggestion------thanks!

I didn't even know there were wireless doorbells!

Is it one of those home automation things, or a standalone product?

If you wouldn't mind sharing, do you know the brand name or model number?

I'll have to look into that.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[rusty]

GotTheBug and shaftsinkerawc,
So, no 220v outlet anywhere in the house or garage.

Cheers,

Mike

You have two choices here, install a larger electrical panel allowing the addition of more breakers or install a sub panel beside the main box. remove a couple pof breakers from the main then add is a 60 amp to feed the sub.

The sub should be large enough to accommodate a 220 volt 40 amp breaker to your shop plus the two breakers you previously removed from the main to add that 60 amp.

Get a copy of the electrical code, home owner can take out a permit and do his/her own wiring.

The last DIY I did we had a 200 amp service coming from the street to the meter, then 100 amp from the meter to the distribution panel aka circuit breaker box.

I wanted to upgrade the distribution box to a 200 amp, which required heavier copper wire and larger conduit from the meter to the panel. Took out a permit then pre wired everything then had Hydro come out to remove the meter so that I could install the heavier copper and conduit.

Have a look at your power meter, if it says 200 amp your good for the same upgrade I did.

Now that we moved into a different shack I have a similar upgrade to do here, I've got 200 amp from the yard pole to the house then 100 amp wire coming through the mast with a 125 amp breaker for the electric furnace. This arrangement is taboo, not my doing, Hydro did this years ago when they were promoting electric furnaces. It was their contractor who pulled this off.

When my 5 hp air compressor kicks in the house lights dim, in the spring this will all change once I upgrade that power mast and weather head.

 

[rusty]

To connect a gasoline or electric motor to your mill use Love Joy couplings.

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/

 

[GotTheBug]

924

If you have two 110's running to the garage, a 20 and a 15, thinking they are side by side, you could remove them, install a 50 amp 220 to a smaller box, where you could have your cake and eat it too. In other words, a smaller side box with a 50, a 20, and a 15. Just don't run everything at once.

 

[924T]

rusty,

I've never looked at the power meter------didn't even know they had an amperage rating, but it makes total
sense that they would.

I'll have to check that tomorrow (Mon.).

The power pole behind my house was hit by lightning last summer, and the hit blew the top 2 feet of wood
off of the pole, and killed a 100 year old maple tree in my back yard. The power company is getting ready to replace
the pole, and they'll have to drop our line to do that.

Since they'll be doing all that work, is there anything I could/should ask them to do that would make it easier
for me to get a 200 amp breaker box installed (when I have the spare funds to do that)?

I have seen Lovejoy connectors mentioned here and there-----I'll go to the website and try to get a bit of an
education on them.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[924T]

GotTheBug,

Hey, thanks for that suggestion about a sub-box in the garage.

As usual, very little is simple around this place-------it's an old house, with old, 2-pin recepticles.

So, the 15 amp garage circuit is the old 2 wire kind, and the 20 amp recepticle is one I had run in (in that
flex conduit) about 3 years ago, so it's the 3 wire type with hot, neutral and ground.

Would there be any type of electrical conflict from combining a 2 wire and a 3 wire circuit into
the same sub breaker box?

Cheers,

Mike

 

[butcher]

Nope no problem, if this is your only breaker box the neutral (white) and ground (green) are on the same terminal block,
(Usually whites wires one end and green ground wires on the other end of this terminal block).

Of course the black goes to the circuit breaker, the circuit breaker is sized to protect the wire which is chosen by wire gauge and insulation.


Every breaker box after the first one, the neutral and ground use separate terminal blocks and are separated.

 

[924T]

butcher,

Many thanks--------the depth and breadth of knowledge and experience that is available on the GRF
never ceases to amaze me!

So, it looks like there's a definite possibility of a sub breaker box for my garage---------cool!

Here's another question----------is it code, or even common practice, for the utility companies to use
a standard gauge of wire from the poles to all the houses, and then define the amperage available for each house
by the amperage rating of each house's meter?

If it takes heavier gauge cable than they would normally run to get 200 amps, then I'd better have them
take a look at that when they're replacing my power pole, and run the heavier gauge stuff if I don't already
have it.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[butcher]

When you wire the secondary from the power companies transformer to your house, you choose the cable size by the House load (to be able to handle the calculated amperage your house will use, also the length of the wire (distance from house to transformer), other factors come into play in the choice of cable, such as air space and insulation and conduit size if run underground, the main panel (breaker box) and thus main breaker is also chosen for this calculated load.

A breaker is not meant to protect equipment, it is made to protect wire (after the breaker to your appliance,the breaker does not care if your appliance burns up, as long as it does not overheat the wire back to the breaker, (although the breaker can help save some appliances this is not its purpose), the breaker protects the wire in your wall and from keeping this wire from overheating and burning your hose down.

The main breaker in your panel will protect your panel, but it does not protect the wire from your panel to the power companies transformer, they have a fuse on the primary of the transformer to protect their transformer.

The panel load is calculated from the loads in your house (and the main breaker is sized for this panel), in this calculation some of these loads are considered continuous some are considered non-continuous to get this equation, so if you turned on every load you had you could actually overload your main breaker and trip it, as the total load on your house could be greater than the main breaker if everything was run at once to maximum current.

Older houses many times were calculated at lower amperage's, as they did not consume as much power as we can today, and the older houses as you have did not use grounds, and sometimes ran bare wires,or asbestos insulated wire, or porcelain knob and tube in attic or ran separated wires on each side of studs in the walls.

 

[rusty]

The size of wire and circuit breaker has to meet the load - so follow the code.

Outdoor electrical outlets must have a ground fault circuit breaker installed, this is not to protect the wire it's to save lives.


butcher older houses did so have a ground wire, the white wire is ground. The code today calls for a 2nd ground wire which is used to ground the chassis of a washing machine or range.

A 220 volt electric motor or a plug in welder will run with only line 1 and 2 connected but is not legal, same with 3 phase L-1, L2 and L-3 will suffice to run the equipment - again not legal.

Today's code calls for that 2nd ground which is a bare wire to signify it's a chassis ground all outlet box's today are now required to be grounded by that bare wire. If your rewiring an older house you can not just drill a hole then tap it to hold that ground wire - the box must be CSA approved which comes with a factory installed terminal.

The last two panels I purchased used from my local electrical contractor, you can try any yard that sells used building materials.

If your main breaker inside the house is for 100 amps the sub panel must not exceed this. It's easy to replace the main breaker, it's the most expensive one in the box. Buying the panel used you could get lucky and get it already filled with breakers, any empty breaker holes must have a cover.

The covers are cheap they just snap into place to cover the empty breaker hole, I have so many breakers that I just insert one as a dummy to fill the hole.

It is also illegal to double lug a breaker, double lugging is when you connect two wire into one terminal to feed two sources.

 

[butcher]

Rusty, Thanks

I understand electrical and most of the national electrical code, I have my electrical license.
The breaker does not necessarily have to meet the load to meet national electrical code, although you do wish to have your breaker larger than your load.

Actually the size of the wire must be chosen to handle the load expected, this wire can be sized larger, and the breaker is chosen by the wire size on the circuit.

We can plug a 3 Amp motor into a circuit able to handle 20 amps (12AWG wire and a 20 amp breaker).
If this motor had a problem and pulled too much amperage say 10 amps it would burn up, our breaker would not trip, but if it pulled over 20 amps long enough to begin heating our wire in this circuit the breaker will trip and protect our wiring, and keep our house from burning.

The code does not care if you try plug more into this outlet that the breaker is rated for, as the breaker will trip, and protect the wire.

The code does not care if you try to plug a 30 amp motor into your circuit wired for 20 amps 12AWG wire and 20 amp breaker, the breaker would just trip, protecting your wire and house from burning down, although you care, because now you cannot use your motor.

You do want to have your circuit and breaker larger than your load to prevent nuisance circuit breaker tripping.

The circuit breaker is to protect wire not the load (your motor), although we do use fuses and thermal breakers, or overloads to protect our motors; these are normally in the circuit after the circuit breaker.


An older house with two wire circuit does not have a ground wire, what they used to call hot and neutral (although the neutral was grounded at the panel it was never considered a ground, as it is a current carrying conductor) the safety ground wire we use is not a current carrying conductor unless there is a fault in the circuit.

 

[rusty]

Lastly it is of utmost importance to attach your white neutral wire coming from 110 volt AC service to the side of the receptacle which has the larger spade hole. Otherwise you stand a chance of feeding live power to the chassis.

There are cheap testers on the market that you plug into any receptacle to see if it is wired correctly. If you have young children in the home this tester is a good investment for their safety.

If the receptacle is wired incorrectly its an easy task to reverse the wires putting it right.

 

[GotTheBug]

http://www.harborfreight.com/electric-receptacle-tester-32906.html