Geo
Well-known member
there may be a slight color change but nothing dramatic like one would expect if the flakes was truly gold.
aqua regia and alluminum foil
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Geo
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the stannous test you showed in the photo showed little to no gold. if you did the dissolution on the test batch correctly, the stannous test should have been some shade of purple. i dont know what to tell you but that you should repeat the sample test. another negative should lead you to consider there may not be any gold in your material.
John, it is a little hard to follow everything here in this thread there seems to be a bit of language difficulty,
If I understand this thread, so far it looks like you have pyrite fool’s gold.
Where did this material come from the river? And how did you collect it and separate it from the sands?
Real gold is easy to tell if it is gold.
It is very hard to prove pyrite is real gold.
I think sometimes it is hard for Gold miners to believe what they know or see, as they easily are blinded by the sparkle of gold.
Try the different tests discussed in this thread, if this is gold it should be easy to tell, if not then believe what you see, do not let that sparkle of this material blind you.
I have taken people panning, who have been thinking pyrite was gold, some places in our rivers are full of pyrite from decomposed granite, These people see tons of these flakes of pyrite and try to separate it from the sand (I think that would be harder than panning gold),they think they are going to be rich, as the rivers are full of pyrite.
I show them how to find gold and how to pan, then they see how the tiny piece of gold is all that is in the pan after the rocks, gravels and sand is panned from the pan, the gold is heavy it stays in the bottom of the pan (yes a fine flat flake may float from oils or an air bubble but that is rare), gold density is around 19.3g/ml, sand has a density of around 2.3g/ml, and pyrite around 5g/ml, lead has a density of about 11g/g/ml.
They also learn there is much more pyrite than gold.
Try this shave off some lead with a pocket knife about the size of your golden color flakes, put both of these in an old pie pan,put a little water in, roll the water around in the dish, to see which one of these materials are carried around the dish by the moving water, if the gold moves before the lead throw it away it is not gold, if the lead floats around before your golden flakes then it is gold keep it.
If I understand this thread, so far it looks like you have pyrite fool’s gold.
Where did this material come from the river? And how did you collect it and separate it from the sands?
Real gold is easy to tell if it is gold.
It is very hard to prove pyrite is real gold.
I think sometimes it is hard for Gold miners to believe what they know or see, as they easily are blinded by the sparkle of gold.
Try the different tests discussed in this thread, if this is gold it should be easy to tell, if not then believe what you see, do not let that sparkle of this material blind you.
I have taken people panning, who have been thinking pyrite was gold, some places in our rivers are full of pyrite from decomposed granite, These people see tons of these flakes of pyrite and try to separate it from the sand (I think that would be harder than panning gold),they think they are going to be rich, as the rivers are full of pyrite.
I show them how to find gold and how to pan, then they see how the tiny piece of gold is all that is in the pan after the rocks, gravels and sand is panned from the pan, the gold is heavy it stays in the bottom of the pan (yes a fine flat flake may float from oils or an air bubble but that is rare), gold density is around 19.3g/ml, sand has a density of around 2.3g/ml, and pyrite around 5g/ml, lead has a density of about 11g/g/ml.
They also learn there is much more pyrite than gold.
Try this shave off some lead with a pocket knife about the size of your golden color flakes, put both of these in an old pie pan,put a little water in, roll the water around in the dish, to see which one of these materials are carried around the dish by the moving water, if the gold moves before the lead throw it away it is not gold, if the lead floats around before your golden flakes then it is gold keep it.
I didn't pay this material. I'll try to find other material with river.
other question is that, How much Urea in grams must I put before put SMB to neutralize HNO3 68% nitric acid on Aqua Regia to be sure the nitric acid is completly neutralize? What happen if I put each gram Urea for each ml HNO3 nitric acid 68% which I use?
my Aqua regia is made with HCl acid 37%
and HNO3 acid 78%
other question is that, How much Urea in grams must I put before put SMB to neutralize HNO3 68% nitric acid on Aqua Regia to be sure the nitric acid is completly neutralize? What happen if I put each gram Urea for each ml HNO3 nitric acid 68% which I use?
my Aqua regia is made with HCl acid 37%
and HNO3 acid 78%
Limit the use of nitric acid to dissolve gold.
Add 3.8Ml HCl per gram of gold.
Cover gold in HCl measured and heat medium.
Measure out in another jar, 0.95ml HNO3 per gram of gold. (We will add this slowly to dissolve gold, and only use as much as we need).
Add a little HNO3 with a pipette; let it react, when reaction stops add another pipette full.
Stop adding nitric acid before the last of gold dissolves, concentrate solution (more gold will dissolve as solution concentrates), and evaporate to thick red solution.
The goal is to use up all of the nitric acid, and not have any free nitric is solution before all of the gold is dissolved, and concentrate the solution, (if gold not completely dissolved at this point you can add couple of drops of HNO3, and a ml of HCl and evaporate some more, I will usually leave a little gold remaining and dissolve it in the next batch, I also add a small sprinkle of sulfamic acid (H3NSO3), just to insure all nitric is gone, the sulfamic reacts with nitric acid leaving a little sulfuric acid in solution and nitrous oxide gas.
HNO3 + H3NSO3 → H2SO4 + N2O + H2O
The sulfuric acid formed in this reaction can help to remove lead from solution as lead sulfate.
This way I only have one evaporation and no free nitric.
Add 3.8Ml HCl per gram of gold.
Cover gold in HCl measured and heat medium.
Measure out in another jar, 0.95ml HNO3 per gram of gold. (We will add this slowly to dissolve gold, and only use as much as we need).
Add a little HNO3 with a pipette; let it react, when reaction stops add another pipette full.
Stop adding nitric acid before the last of gold dissolves, concentrate solution (more gold will dissolve as solution concentrates), and evaporate to thick red solution.
The goal is to use up all of the nitric acid, and not have any free nitric is solution before all of the gold is dissolved, and concentrate the solution, (if gold not completely dissolved at this point you can add couple of drops of HNO3, and a ml of HCl and evaporate some more, I will usually leave a little gold remaining and dissolve it in the next batch, I also add a small sprinkle of sulfamic acid (H3NSO3), just to insure all nitric is gone, the sulfamic reacts with nitric acid leaving a little sulfuric acid in solution and nitrous oxide gas.
HNO3 + H3NSO3 → H2SO4 + N2O + H2O
The sulfuric acid formed in this reaction can help to remove lead from solution as lead sulfate.
This way I only have one evaporation and no free nitric.
how much sulfamic acid add on your solution? (ex. each ml of nitric acid?) yes and I. After too much solutions !!! I add as little as possible, only what I must add to disolve gold. And then you add SMB or boil-evaporate your solution?
thanks for all info butcher
thanks for all info butcher
To neutralize 1 ml of excess 70% nitric, it takes about 1.5 grams of sulfamic acid, preferably dissolved in water first. Hot 80C water will dissolve about 470g of sulfamic acid per liter. Room temp water will dissolve about 150g/l.
Fools gold, Iron Pyrite can fool a new miner into thinking he has found his wealth in gold, if the miner is uneducated in how to tell the difference in pyrite or gold.
Pyrite can also fool a new refiner into thinking he has gold dissolved in solution it can give a nice yellow color looking like pure gold dissolved in solution.
Iron can give several colors to solutions yellow, green, brown, and red.
An educated refiner will test his solution to see if gold is in solution stannous chloride (violet color for gold in solution) or ferrous sulfate crystal (brown precipitate ring if gold in solution).
This refiner will also test the solution for iron, Hokes book on page 100 she gives instructions to test for iron in solution, using ammonium or potassium thiocyanate (blood red test for iron in solution), and potassium ferro cyanide (prussian blue dye color with iron in solution).
Pyrite can also fool a new refiner into thinking he has gold dissolved in solution it can give a nice yellow color looking like pure gold dissolved in solution.
Iron can give several colors to solutions yellow, green, brown, and red.
An educated refiner will test his solution to see if gold is in solution stannous chloride (violet color for gold in solution) or ferrous sulfate crystal (brown precipitate ring if gold in solution).
This refiner will also test the solution for iron, Hokes book on page 100 she gives instructions to test for iron in solution, using ammonium or potassium thiocyanate (blood red test for iron in solution), and potassium ferro cyanide (prussian blue dye color with iron in solution).
There probably is some known relationship, maybe, with urea but I don't know what it is. I do know that I tried to neutralize a solution, using urea, that had a large nitric percentage (50% v/v) and ended up with 3 or 4 inches of crystals on the bottom and about 2" of crystals floating on top, in a bucket. Very undesirable. I switched to sulfamic and, lots more volume but everything worked smooth.Palladium said:
Palladium said:
yes but I'll try with sulfamic acid (H3NSO3). This method is better because....
I also add a small sprinkle of sulfamic acid (H3NSO3), just to insure all nitric is gone, the sulfamic reacts with nitric acid leaving a little sulfuric acid in solution and nitrous oxide gas.
HNO3 + H3NSO3 → H2SO4 + N2O + H2O
The sulfuric acid formed in this reaction can help to remove lead from solution as lead sulfate.
butcher explain very good...
2 in 1 neutralize nitric acid and leave lead.
if I neutralize all nitric acid (HNO3) with 1.5 sulfamic acid it is correct method? Because I'm not sure how much nitric acid is the "excess" in my solution.
the sulfamic acid is only as a powder?
nōnāgintā trēs
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I'm still trying to understand how the man cracked his boiling flask?
Geo
Well-known member
i wasnt there and cant say with certainty, but from the description, i would say it was thermal shock due to the high heat generated from adding aluminum foil to a solution high in hcl.
I have some aluminum based parts i was running just yesterday. Had them in a 4000 ml beaker sitting in water to help slow it down some. The water got so hot from the beaker and the reaction it was almost boiling to. Whole lot of heat generated with aluminum and it's fast to happen.
