Beginner questions and mistakes

[Grelko]

Be sure to check all solutions with stannous chloride before treating them for waste prior to disposal.

Dave

When I'm finished, I was going to filter the entire solution, evaporate everything down to 1 or 2 gallons, test with stannous, toss in a copper bus bar, re-filter and test again with stannous just incase.

All of the powder that I gathered up beforehand, including anything that cements out after adding the copper bus bar, I will be cleaning and re-processing.

Then, put in a piece of stainless to reclaim the copper, or instead, use iron to push out the copper and zinc.

I'll filter afterwards, add baking soda "sodium bicarbonate" or lime to get the PH to 7, then filter it one last time to remove any iron powder.

The leftover solution should just be salt water, that I can toss down the drain, then I can take the different powders (copper, iron, zinc) to the scrapyard.

I hope I remembered this right, if not, I'll re-read the proper disposal method over and over until I have it completely memorized.

 

[Geo]

Stainless steel is a poor choice for cementing copper. Use just plain steel. Stainless will be slow to react and is more expensive than scrap steel.

 

[jason_recliner]

Iron will not cement zinc, which is more reactive. Zinc will be dropped in your final cleanup with sodium or calcium.

 

[Grelko]

Stainless steel is a poor choice for cementing copper. Use just plain steel. Stainless will be slow to react and is more expensive than scrap steel.

Thanks for the info, I thought the stainless might cement the copper more "pure" than plain steel, incase I got bored and felt like trying to make a couple bars. If I just take it to the scrapyard, I'm sure they'll give me #2 copper price either way.

I'll most likely just use plain steel because this took so long in the first place, and I'm slowly depopulating a couple hundred pounds of motherboards, etc. that I'll be processing, after these pins are finished.

Edit - Thanks Jason, I couldn't remember if iron or zinc was higher on the reactivity chart. I'm still learning.

 

[Grelko]

I've finished filtering out the bucket of pins, the total amount of powder/flakes look to be about the size of a golfball, but it's very dirty. It's still wet also, so I'm not sure of the weight.

Since I'll be disposing of my leftover solution in the next few weeks, I'm making sure that I bought the correct material, that I need to neutralize it for proper disposal.

I have a new piece of copper pipe that I will be cutting down the side, flatten out, drill a hole, and hang from the side of the bucket to cement any remaining PMs in solution. I also have pieces of scrap iron from old PC towers etc, that I can use afterwards.

I have litmus paper to test the PH of the solution.

I was going to buy baking soda "sodium bicarbonate", but 40 pounds of lime was under $5 at Lowes.

I may need to crush this up since it is "pelletized" or mix with water, but if it is possible just to use it without the extra water adding to the total amount of waste, that would be better. The second picture shows the mesh size.

 

[jason_recliner]

It could be calcium magnesium carbonate. There are way too many "percents" in there for me to be sure.
If so, Kurtak has reported success in the below thread.

I use calcium hydroxide, thanks to MarcoP for the suggestion. It is commonly called slaked lime, or builders lime, and is a very fine white dust.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21273&p=228479&hilit=calcium+hydroxide#p228093

 

[Grelko]

It could be calcium magnesium carbonate. There are way too many "percents" in there for me to be sure.
If so, Kurtak has reported success in the below thread.

I use calcium hydroxide, thanks to MarcoP for the suggestion. It is commonly called slaked lime, or builders lime, and is a very fine white dust.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21273&p=228479&hilit=calcium+hydroxide#p228093

All the different percents is the reason why I posted the pictures. I bought this in the outside gardening section.

I asked if they had slaked lime in gardening but they said no. I should have asked in the building material section instead.

I'll test it out on a sample, if it doesn't seem to work properly, it didn't cost much, and I could always use it in the yard/garden.

Thanks for the link, I'll keep an eye out for "calcium hydroxide" also, and see if it was near the bricks and bags of cement.

The flakes/powder that was from the 3.5 pounds of partial plated "some full plated" pins, came out to 8.2g, plus another 0.9g from a test with fingers a while back. Total amount 9.1g dirty powder, flakes, and some green mask. There may be a little more after I see what cements out from adding copper to the solution.

 

[Geo]

At 92% calcium carbonate, it should work okay for neutralizing waste acid. I don't see anything that would cause problems or be dangerous.

 

[bswartzwelder]

"I have litmus paper to test the PH of the solution."

pH test strips will tell you (within a range) what the pH is of the solution being tested. Litmus paper will not. The only results litmus paper will tell you is if the solution is an acid, base, or neutral.

 

[Grelko]

At 92% calcium carbonate, it should work okay for neutralizing waste acid. I don't see anything that would cause problems or be dangerous.

At 92%, I'm wondering if there is chance of it not raising the PH far as I need it to go, but I can always use baking soda, etc, to finish. I read that I should take it up around 9 first, then lower it back to 7 to make sure everything has dropped.

I'm just gathering up the flakes/powder, until I make sure that I KNOW how to dispose of the waste properly first thing.

"I have litmus paper to test the PH of the solution."

pH test strips will tell you (within a range) what the pH is of the solution being tested. Litmus paper will not. The only results litmus paper will tell you is if the solution is an acid, base, or neutral.

Yes, you are correct, I don't know why I keep calling it litmus paper. It is Hydrion brand PH test paper, but it only goes from PH 5.5 - 8.0, I bought it at a health food store. I should order a roll of the test paper from the pharmacy eventually, because they can get the 0.0 - 14, but it's a bit expensive. It would be worth it, since some solutions require a certain PH to work properly.

 

[g_axelsson]

Is this too expensive?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/160-Strips-Full-Range-pH-Alkaline-Acid-1-14-Test-Paper-Water-Litmus-Testing-Kit-/331542549969?

I bought a set but haven't tested it against a pH standard so I don't know how exact it is. At least my acid has a very low pH. 8)

Göran

 

[Grelko]

Is this too expensive?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/160-Strips-Full-Range-pH-Alkaline-Acid-1-14-Test-Paper-Water-Litmus-Testing-Kit-/331542549969?

I bought a set but haven't tested it against a pH standard so I don't know how exact it is. At least my acid has a very low pH. 8)

Göran

Thanks for the link. I should get that instead, its ALOT cheaper. The only problem is that the card I use for online purchases goes to $-5.95 if I don't use it for a while, and also costs another $4 to add funds to it, so the total for that small pack would be closer to $12 instead of $1.

If I'm remembering correctly, the type the pharmacy had, was either a 10 or 20 foot roll for around $40. I don't need nearly that much. Then again, if I keep recovering/refining for a couple years, it would be worth getting it.

Edit - fixed number.

 

[g_axelsson]

Do like me then, sell something online and leave the funds on a paypal account. Then use that for buying small stuff online.
Or find another way of adding funds to a paypal account.

Göran

 

[Grelko]

I have a question about stannous, since I've been working on disposing of most of my used AP solution.

When I first started learning about this I made a small batch of stannous chloride as an acquaintance test.

5.2g of 100% tin split shot fishing weights, and 10ml of HCL in a dropper bottle.

If I put a small piece of iron in with it, the tin should drop out, then I can filter/dry the tin powder and re-use it for another batch of stannous? I've wondered about this because the only materials in the solution, is HCL and the 100% tin split shot.

Or, evaporate the stannous until dry powder, heat to a dull red to remove the remaining HCL, converting it back to metallic tin (or is that just when using nitric?), and reclaim the tin for another batch?

If that won't work, I'll was going toss it into my AP bucket after cementing/filtering out the copper, since it's a very small amount. Or, is it possible to go ahead and neutralize the stannous just as it is?

 

[Grelko]

I've been slowly working on disposing of my used AP solution.

I was trying to collect the copper according to this link before disposal http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=5994

I added a piece of steel from an old computer that I had.

I let the bucket sit for a couple hours and checked on it to see if the copper was starting to cement to the steel, nothing yet. I waited a couple more hours, nothing. I turned on my bubbler and waited about six more hours.

When I went back to check, the piece of steel was almost completely dissolved but, there still wasn't any copper sticking to the rest of it, so I put in a thicker piece and the bubbler has been running for the last few hours, to see if that does anything. (Or should I turn the bubbler off, and give it a couple days?)

If this step in the disposal process doesn't work properly, I figure that I could just neutralize the solution and take the mixed powder to the waste management or scrapyard once it's dried.


Edit - I'm guessing that the bubbling action is the reason that the copper isn't cementing to the piece of steel and could explain why it's dissolving quickly also. So basically I'm just mixing the powder together at the bottom of the bucket. I'm going to turn the bubbler off and give it a couple days.

 

[jason_recliner]

Unless you will never use the AP (copper chloride leach) process again, reuse your AP.
When it's saturated, iron will replace copper.

 

[Grelko]

I'll be keeping some of it, I just wanted to get rid of some, plus I can see exactly how the disposal method works. I'm close to 6 or 7 gallons right now and didn't want too much around because of my nieces and pets. Right now, I just have one 4 gallon bucket about 75% full and some mason jars "plastic lids" and HCL containers filled with the used solution.

I was reading in another post about ferric chloride being used for silver, so I might keep some of the iron solution afterwards. http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=19838

(Part of butcher's long post - This leaves you with the white copper I chloride powders, with some HCl add this dissolves and becomes copper II chloride, which can be used, as you know to dissolve copper, and if you had silver or gold on the copper you were dissolving above, you will be left with gold foils or silver chloride powders after adding the HCl.)

 

[jason_recliner]

I'm curious, how much material have you processed in that 6-7 gallons?

 

[Grelko]

I'm curious, how much material have you processed in that 6-7 gallons?

I still have a gallon of fresh HCL.

I used about 2 gallons of water mixed in with 3 or 4 gallons of HCL and some peroxide, for a pound of ram fingers and 3.5 pounds plated pins which included some full plated ones.

 

[Grelko]

At 92% calcium carbonate, it should work okay for neutralizing waste acid. I don't see anything that would cause problems or be dangerous.

I had to quote this again :lol: :roll: I took about 1/2 a cup of the garden lime and dumped it into my bucket with my AP solution.

Apparently this type of garden lime likes to make ALOT of foam when mixed with HCL, I had to run into the garage, to grab a 5 gallon bucket and a large cup, to hurry and bail out all the foam it was producing before it overflowed. It's that type of yellowish/brown foam that has the bubbles that never seem to pop.

If I would have done the entire bucket all at once, I could have invited people over for a foam party, because only 1/2 a cup made enough foam to fill the 5 gallon bucket.

I tried a bit of baking soda on a small amount of my HCL solution. It fizzed a little then stopped, no huge amount of foam. I might just use that to neutralize the rest of this. I'll have to head over to Home Depot sometime, since Lowe's doesn't carry "slaked lime" and I don't want to waste all my money on a bunch of baking soda next time.

Looks like I'll be using the other 39.5 pounds of garden lime for the garden and yard.