Non-Chemical Can I use this nozzle for making burner

[saadat68]

Maybe I just do not understand the problem, why would you want to try to pass air through the fuel orifice?

I cant understand your mean! :shock:
Air is necessary for a furnace. isn't it? I must pass air with fuel from this nozzle

If you mean is why do you use a nozzle because it is safe than a pipe or ...

http://uupload.ir/files/mghi_6855875.jpg

If I use a propane gas instead of natural gas do I need a blower or oxygen gas ? ( Just propane gas )

 

[Justincase]

If you are having problems understanding the diagrams provided you may want to recruit some local help.
Every thing you need is there you have misread the instructions.
Air and fuel have separate rout's until they are combined in the combustion aria.

 

[saadat68]

If you are having problems understanding the diagrams provided you may want to recruit some local help.
Every thing you need is there you have misread the instructions.
Air and fuel have separate rout's until they are combined in the combustion aria.

I know. I draw that diagram
I say a 1 mm nozzle is small that a blower can pass air and fuel from it for combustion

Can I use an air compressor instead of blower?

 

[Justincase]

If you are having problems understanding the diagrams provided you may want to recruit some local help.
Every thing you need is there you have misread the instructions.
Air and fuel have separate rout's until they are combined in the combustion aria.

I know. I draw that diagram
I say a 1 mm nozzle is small that a blower can pass air and fuel from it for combustion

Can I use an air compressor instead of blower?

Air should not go through the fuel line.
Look at the plans again,you have been given one set for "Forced Air" and one that draws air into the combustion chamber by the movement of compressed fuel gas.
Make sure you have not mixed the two up.
neither diagram tells you to force air through a 1mm orifice.
But you can use a compressor on a "Forced Air " burner if you control the pressure.

 

[saadat68]

If you are having problems understanding the diagrams provided you may want to recruit some local help.
Every thing you need is there you have misread the instructions.
Air and fuel have separate rout's until they are combined in the combustion aria.

I know. I draw that diagram
I say a 1 mm nozzle is small that a blower can pass air and fuel from it for combustion

Can I use an air compressor instead of blower?

Air should not go through the fuel line.
Look at the plans again,you have been given one set for "Forced Air" and one that draws air into the combustion chamber by the movement of compressed fuel gas.
Make sure you have not mixed the two up.
neither diagram tells you to force air through a 1mm orifice.
But you can use a compressor on a "Forced Air " burner if you control the pressure.

OK
I think understood
A Nozzle in a pipe

 

[butcher]

Fuel and air or oxygen then you add heat or a spark and you can have a dangerous situation.

You need to know how the burner operates, some burners use air and can pull in their own air, through a larger (air) port sized for the burner BTU's. The fuel orifice only supplies fuel to the burner (normally under a certain pressure).

Some burners use blowers to supply the air, again fuel orifices only deliver fuel.

Size the burner for the furnace or proper application. The burner size BTU's can limit options of sizes, types or styles, fuel, oxidizer (air, blower forced air, oxygen under pressure...) these can be a factor in sizing.
Knowing what you need you can choose the proper style burner for the job.
Study the burner you wish to buy or build, understand how it works, how to build it (or just buy one), and under what conditions it operates, and how to use it properly and safely...

 

[saadat68]

Thanks guys
I have another problem! :|

I go to 3 shops for buying a check valve for gas ( for safety ) but they said there is no any Check valve for gas :shock: we have check valve just for water.

The check valve was like this:
http://76.my/Malaysia/york-style-spring-brass-check-valve-ycv-open-stock-ehardwarestore-1005-06-aaronngu77@110.jpg


Is there a gas check valve ( just for gas ) and is it different with water check valve ?

 

[butcher]

The check valve in the picture will not work the spring is too heavy.
Some types of torches or burners need an anti-backflow valve, flashback, or a safety check valve.
many types of burners they are not needed.
If you show us details of the furnace and torch, or burner you wish to build maybe we can give you some tips.
If you are just melting some gold and silver, a torch and melting dish may just be all you will ever need.
without understanding what your plans are it is hard to answer questions.

 

[4metals]

I think you are being overcritical about nozzles, when you use a blower like you have it can be much simpler.

This is a blower and gas plumbing for a small gas melter, it will melt gold in a #8 crucible no problem. The gas is hooked up to a propane bottle with a regulator and a flashback arrestor and the valve is opened to adjust the gas flow. The ball valve adjusts gas flow and the gate valve throttles back airflow. It will also work with natural gas but the flashback arrestor is different for natural gas.



This is a propane bottle with a regulator and a gas flashback arrestor.



When you light a burner like this you turn on the gas and have the air throttled all the way back to minimal flow, then you light the gas and cut it back as you slowly increase the air flow. It will go from a flame coming out of the melter to a swirling flame with a bit of a roar. As the furnace warms up, the air is increased until a balance is reached and you can adjust to either a reducing or an oxidizing flame based on the flame color.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

I love when 4metals plays show and tell. 8)

 

[Shark]

I love when 4metals plays show and tell. 8)

So do I, it becomes a maximum education in minimal wording. Something that is not always easy to do.

 

[goldenhaha]

AlloyAvenue.com is where you need to go. Its a metal casting site. The folks over there should be able to tell you how to make a nozzle.

 

[goldenhaha]

I love when 4metals plays show and tell. 8)

So do I, it becomes a maximum education in minimal wording. Something that is not always easy to do.

Really enjoy reading 4metals post.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I think you are being overcritical about nozzles, when you use a blower like you have it can be much simpler.

This is a blower and gas plumbing for a small gas melter, it will melt gold in a #8 crucible no problem. The gas is hooked up to a propane bottle with a regulator and a flashback arrestor and the valve is opened to adjust the gas flow. The ball valve adjusts gas flow and the gate valve throttles back airflow. It will also work with natural gas but the flashback arrestor is different for natural gas.

IMG_3169.JPG

This is a propane bottle with a regulator and a gas flashback arrestor.

flashback arrestor propane bottle.jpeg

When you light a burner like this you turn on the gas and have the air throttled all the way back to minimal flow, then you light the gas and cut it back as you slowly increase the air flow. It will go from a flame coming out of the melter to a swirling flame with a bit of a roar. As the furnace warms up, the air is increased until a balance is reached and you can adjust to either a reducing or an oxidizing flame based on the flame color.

If you can use a ball valve rather than a gate valve in both places it makes it easier to know what you are adjusting your flow rate at for the air flow and the gas (fuel) flow.

 

[4metals]

I do agree that a gate valve gives no indication as to the degree of open or closed the orifice is, and that may be an issue to some. I also get involved with much larger furnaces and when you get up to the 4" size a gate valve is much cheaper than the ball valves so, being of a simple mind, I always prefer to keep things consistent.

However, once the force of the air kicks in and the flame is in cyclone mode, the roar of the flame is what I use to determine airflow.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I do agree that a gate valve gives no indication as to the degree of open or closed the orifice is, and that may be an issue to some. I also get involved with much larger furnaces and when you get up to the 4" size a gate valve is much cheaper than the ball valves so, being of a simple mind, I always prefer to keep things consistent.

However, once the force of the air kicks in and the flame is in cyclone mode, the roar of the flame is what I use to determine airflow.

ROFLMAO. I really couldn't keep from cracking up reading that reply.

With a 4" line yes I can see where you are coming from. With a 4" line you are going to probably want to use a gate valve because you will have better control of the flow. With a 3/4" or 1" it's not going to make that much of a difference as far as I can see.

We use to run some 1M BTU evaporator columns at the plant I was at. The fan that were used were similar to what you would see used at a grain dryer, turbine type. We used gate valves to adjust the gas flow. Those things always were kind of touchy adjusting the gas flow. Never could get the operators to have the patience to throttle them down, they always wanted to push the pressures up on the gas flow to quicken the evaporating time of the zinc chloride and zinc bromide. This in turn would burn out the 60' high fiberglass stacks. Then the column would have to be shut down and taken out of commission and the fiberglass repaired. That would usually take 2-4 days of work, and loss of production.

 

[saadat68]

I don't make furnace yet. There are many difficulties for example can not find pipe connections for nozzle.

I can make this furnace easily but I have 2 questions

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=33462&t=1

1: Can I use a propane flashback arrestor for natural gas ?
2: I don' want use any nozzle and torch. just a flashback and pipe (like picture). Is there any safety issue ?

for example in top picture if blower turned off gas (natural gas ) back to pipe and explode. right?


Thanks

 

[4metals]

A dry flashback arrestor is the same for natural gas or propane but the fittings will vary to hook it up. The ones I have seen for propane have threads for propane tanks while the natural gas arrestors have female threads either English or Metric depending on what is the norm in your region.

 

[saadat68]

A dry flashback arrestor is the same for natural gas or propane but the fittings will vary to hook it up. The ones I have seen for propane have threads for propane tanks while the natural gas arrestors have female threads either English or Metric depending on what is the norm in your region.

Thanks
What about second question

2: I don' want use any nozzle and torch. just a flashback and pipe (like picture). Is there any safety issue ?

 

[saadat68]

I can find pipe connection for my nozzle
solve the problem

Thanks all