• Please join our new sister site dedicated to discussion of gold, silver, platinum, copper and palladium bar, coin, jewelry collecting/investing/storing/selling/buying. It would be greatly appreciated if you joined and help add a few new topics for new people to engage in.

    Bullion.Forum

Electrochemistry GEOMOD GOLD CELL!!

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

modtheworld44

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
407
Location
Chattanooga,TN
To all members

Heres the new cell I promised,I explain the specs in the video.
Please hit the like button and leave plenty of comments and suggestions and I'll do my best to answer all questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFOCCz5Utlg
Sorry it took so long to post,I got tied up with outings all day yesterday.Thanks in advance and I hope you like it.

P.S. Geo has been a really great help in testing this out,so don't forget to give him thanks too.



modtheworld44
 
Hi,

I just watch your new video will there be more? How big were the graphite rod cause I have 2 rod 1/4" x 12"? What was in that bucket just bleach if so that is cheap? Was that 12 volt? How many AMP was it?

I think you should have had rubber gloves on for safety.

Jack
 
modtheworld44 said:
To all members

Heres the new cell I promised,I explain the specs in the video.
Please hit the like button and leave plenty of comments and suggestions and I'll do my best to answer all questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFOCCz5Utlg
Sorry it took so long to post,I got tied up with outings all day yesterday.Thanks in advance and I hope you like it.

P.S. Geo has been a really great help in testing this out,so don't forget to give him thanks too.



modtheworld44

That looks promising (please keep in mind I am a newbie who has yet to refine gold, however.) I am yearning to know more details! What was the voltage and amperage used? What did you use to deliver the electricity? (I assume it was a car battery charger.) Is the Bleach diluted or full strength? May we see some gold after it has been recovered/refined by this process? Are there sufficient amounts of base metals/contaminants in the cell such that the gold that is stripped needs to be further processed before dissolution and precipitation? I assume if so, it would require an HCl bath, incineration, then dissolution? Thanks for sharing this. I hope to try it someday!

Matt
Edit: added details to one of my questions.
 
I don't think this movie has proven anything but how to take longer to deplate gold plate. what is it doing? and how is it doing it. also what is the purpose of the cell? How do you get the gold out? Is it cementing out on the pins after its removed?

Also you might have better luck using the free Cl gas if you were closer to the anode. this looks like a slower eclectically charged HCl/Bleach process.

Not trying to tear it down but the question "Why" is all I can think about. I hate dealing with sulfuric but its relatively quick so I mutter though it

Eric
 
the sulfuric stripping cell is dangerous. for newcomers, it may not be an option. this is a small scale example that can be scaled up. what i see happening is chlorine gas is being produced and is dissolving the gold plating which is being plated back onto the base metal.the boiling action is moving the black cemented gold out into the solution. this will settle and be collected as black gold powder to be further refined. im putting together a cell that will keep the gold in solution.it will continue to dissolve metal until the Cl is depleted.Cl tablets will drive the reaction forward.it may be a replacement for using AR to digest mixed metals.
 
I would think that the cell is also producing sodium hydroxide as a by product of freeing the chlorine ion. If that's the case all you would be doing is dissolving base metals and gold and re precipitating them both. You would still have to go through the process of removing the base metals again anyways.
 
I can't say you answered any question. If anything you have made more.

The fact that you said you will use less acid if you have it in smaller particle size is untrue. The size of the material effects the rate of digestion not amount of acid used. also comparing you small cell to a swimming pool and calling it a safer alternative is also irresponsible. the small size and the amount of smell you say you're getting is something to be concerned about. Cl gas is not the safest thing to have about in the air if its humid you are creating HCl in the air and it will ruin lots of stuff.

There is nothing wrong with creating a better mouse trap but the mouse trap needs to be an improvement not a step backwards. additionally this Idea might have some uses in say stripping SS parts or high Fe materials but in Cu alloys you are not going to have much gain in the innovation column. Also this should be a closed cell so that you capture the Cl gas not have it go into the air. That's the point of electrifying it to create the gas without using HCl.

This might have some use also in doing keyboard Mylars. the high concentration of Cl gas will create AgCl which is easier to filter out of large amounts of liquids.

Eric
 
Ok guys

Here's three more videos to my series.If you don't watch them you'll really miss out on...........

video 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVVKSLSQXQY

video 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hOTf3uREGk

video 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDaLnJmAXSw

I hope yall guys have plenty to say after you see these!!!



modtheworld44
 
Hi,

The bowl I think of using is going to a 3" x 4" x 3" and put a lid on when not in use. I'm going to try a computer power supply cause I don't have a car charger. I have the graphite rods I need for this cell and the bowl if big enough.

Is there a lot of base metal to deal with? If so can I use AP (Muriaric Acid and Peroxide) to remove the base metal?

Jack
 
normally, gold doesnt precipitate in gold colored flakes with SMB. it looks like alot of salt mixed in. take all the solution from the solids and place them in one container and place all the solution in one container.test the solution with stannous to be sure all the gold has been removed and add it to your stock pot if its a negative. add water to the solids and cover and give it a hard boil to remove the salts.it will give you a better look at the gold that dropped. it has to be dissolved again and precipitated again any way so rinsing is the first step.
 
I'm sorry if this is going to sound hard, but I'm going to tell you what I think about the videos you showed us.

I agree with Eric, you don't say anything at all. I think I heard "that is what I'm talking about" ten times but never once did you tell us what you process is or give any proof of having produced any gold. I didn't see any testing of pregnant liquids to show the presence of gold before trying to "SMB'd it to ****". I heard AR once or twice, nitric once and hydrochloric a couple of times, but never said what you had in solution in the beginning of the video. You never told us how much material you started with and type of materials.
What I see is a real mess, this is the electrolytical version of throwing all your scrap into AR and then trying to do something with the mess. You will have all kinds of base metals in your solution, mixed with some mud containing hydroxides and cemented base metals... probably some oxides too.

Why can't you just write down the procedure you use in easy to follow steps in text, then it is easy to follow what you are doing. To go back and looking through half an hour of video to try to find a missing step mentioned somewhere isn't practical. It would take me hours, going through your videos to check procedures if it was there but in writing I could do it in minutes, comparing it to known procedures.

I'm sorry, but so far your process does not impress me.

Göran
 
It's not the processes i'm really concerned about as much as he seems to disregard safety, science, or any type of procedures like goran spoke of. I hate to judge anyone, but are you drinking and refining? and that's not meant as a joke either. This stuff will hurt you!
Youtube material? Yes.
GRF material? Hmmmm.
 
g_axelsson said:
I'm sorry if this is going to sound hard, but I'm going to tell you what I think about the videos you showed us.

I agree with Eric, you don't say anything at all. I think I heard "that is what I'm talking about" ten times but never once did you tell us what you process is or give any proof of having produced any gold. I didn't see any testing of pregnant liquids to show the presence of gold before trying to "SMB'd it to ****". I heard AR once or twice, nitric once and hydrochloric a couple of times, but never said what you had in solution in the beginning of the video. You never told us how much material you started with and type of materials.
What I see is a real mess, this is the electrolytical version of throwing all your scrap into AR and then trying to do something with the mess. You will have all kinds of base metals in your solution, mixed with some mud containing hydroxides and cemented base metals... probably some oxides too.

Why can't you just write down the procedure you use in easy to follow steps in text, then it is easy to follow what you are doing. To go back and looking through half an hour of video to try to find a missing step mentioned somewhere isn't practical. It would take me hours, going through your videos to check procedures if it was there but in writing I could do it in minutes, comparing it to known procedures.

I'm sorry, but so far your process does not impress me.

Göran

g_axelsson

Heres the list of stuff that was put through the GEOMOD cell,in my second post from top.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=17046

Ok you make some good points so let me try and explain the best I can for everyone.After I filtered the cell I put the powder in AR(poorman because I was running low on regular nitric),because this was my first time using poorman AR I used to much potassium nitrate.I didn't realize it until I went back and reread the post where Butcher gave us the three or four different recipes for it.So because I didn't realize it at the time I went a head and diluted the AR to about 2-1/2 gallons.Yes I'm aware now that this was to much,but this is what I did.The start solution was originally at the ten cup mark on my coffee pot.So then I started adding in the SMB and noticed that when it hit the AR it was instantly turning the off brown color of gold powder.Well I then stirred it and let it set for about four hours,then came back and added a little pinch of smb to make sure it had all precipitated out.When the pinch hit the AR I got more brown powder and decided to see how much more it would produce so in went the hole bottle .45kg of SMB.After it had all dissolved,the color change in Ar never happened but there became this brown mercky cloud all through it.So I decided to finally let it settle over night and then siphon it of down to the powder.When I got up the next morning and checked it, there was a thin layer of brown particles floating on top and the 3 gallon clear tote bottom was covered with brown powders and it still had that brown merckyness to the AR.So I went a head and siphoned it down after I sprayed the brown layer down and collected the powders.I boiled them in hot water then when I put in the ammonia to get rid of the silver that I suspected thats when I really thought I messed it up.As I started adding the ammonia it started changing to a royal blue almost purplish color.So I started filtering it off my powders and as the fluid filled my catch coffee pot the surface started to form these little broken apart silver mirrors.So when the ammonia was all filtered off, I added to shots of hcl to finish rinsing the powders and allow the ammonia to be acidified(the color changed to clear cloudy almost instantly.So since the AR was going to be waste anyways I dumped the ammonia in it.My original plan from this point was to dry the filter with the powders and then scrape powders off filter and melt.Well when the filter dried there was hardly any powder there so my first thought was must have went through filter when poured the hcl on powders.So I melted the little bit of powder that was left in the filter and got 0.4gr which was slightly contaminated from my dirty crucible.So this turn of events took me back to the cloud mercky waste of AR,which by this time had settled some more brown powders.So since the cloudiness had not settled yet,I went and bought another 1lb bottle of bodine stump remover.When I got home I emptied the whole bottle in the AR waste and let it sit for another 24hrs.This time though,when it became dark I went outside to my AR tote with a flashlight and shined it through the AR and gave it a good stir and low and behold I got tons of little reflections come back at me.So I went to bed and got back up 6hrs later to allot more powder.This time I siphoned it off into 4-5 coffee pot loads each at 10 cup mark and hard boiled them for 2-4 hours until I could see lots of powder on the bottom.I took the first pot and let it cool for about 15mins and then decanted as much solution as possible and then poured the rest into the next pot.I done all the pots this way until one pot held all the powders and then I boiled it again for 2hrs more.When the last pot was done I decanted as much as possible till there was probably 30-50ml of solution left with powders.Now when I was boiling these pots I kept hearing these loud popping noises like there was metal being bounced off the bottom and sides of the pot but just chalked it up to the hot plate since it does make noises some times.After I decanted the final pot I done a panning swirl to check for possible chloride powders being mixed in.That's when I noticed the gold flakes for the first time and realized thats what I had heard bouncing around in the pots while boiling them.So I got me a big glass anchor hockings pie pan dumped the 30-50mls in it and done another panning swirl to make sure that I wasn't seeing things,and sure enough I wasn't.I got my electric griddle (I use strictly for refining purposes out)and started evaporating the rest of the solution and because I was in a hurry to get to the gold that I was seeing I used rubbing alcohol to speed up evaporation(which worked by the way).The powder turned three colors when it dried(yellow with white film was gold,white was alcohol residue and probably some chlorides and brown?). Me and GEO have concluded that the brown must be some type of chloride/sulfate.So I scraped the powders from the dish and melted them.I used a dremmel and sanded out as much of the contamination as I could from my crucible(Yes I now Know thanks to Geo how to handle this problem next time),but it didn't get enough out so when I tried melting it all the metals got locked up and to try and free them I came up with the not so bright idea of adding the 0.4grs from the first melt and locked it up too.So I heated it red hot and then moved the glob around with a fork and sprayed it with my water bottle a couple times to make it break up some.Then I proceeded the grind the glob into a powder using a silverplated spoon and the crucible as a make shift pestle&mortar.From there I found several small pieces of metal plus the 0.4grs I had added to it,once the glob was powdered I made another small batch of AR and hence the small pot you see in the new videos and I did do three stannous tests,two of which you saw in the video not once but twice.The white cap with the black purple stains.The third one was the first test done on a q-tip which I only showed those to Geo before he suggested I use something white to do the tests on,hence the white cap.Now after I done the first test and I let the AR cool,it started to form crystal so I filtered the crystals out twice and right before I did this I done the second test but first using the cap(bottom of cap in video)then after I filtered I done third test but second using cap(top of cap in video). So in-between the time it took me to make the 3 and 4 video,I took and SMB'd the small pot of AR to death and heated it to get the nice little bit I got and I siphoned off some more powders from the original AR batch and boiled them to get the gold flakes that you see in the videos.I'm still working on the final result so please be patient hoping to finish that up today or at least be able to show you some of the results in the form of a button.

I'm going to post the two pictures that I sent GEO so you can see the first stannous test and see the crystals that formed in the second small pot of AR.If you have decided to read this far THANK YOU!!




modtheworld44
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20130131_174204.jpg
    IMG_20130131_174204.jpg
    2.6 MB
  • IMG_20130131_174051.jpg
    IMG_20130131_174051.jpg
    1.4 MB
Palladium said:
It's not the processes i'm really concerned about as much as he seems to disregard safety, science, or any type of procedures like goran spoke of. I hate to judge anyone, but are you drinking and refining? and that's not meant as a joke either. This stuff will hurt you!
Youtube material? Yes.
GRF material? Hmmmm.

Palladium

For one ,I drink once a year and thats on New years eve.
For 2-everything else I haven't seen anyone on this forum able to make the colloidal gold or even particle sized gold that want normally precipitate out turn into the gold flakes that I have,which means I'm getting the better recovery rate that everyone always mentions that they wish they had.Now if you don't want this on the forum just let me know and I'll remove every bit of it and go back behind the scenes as a spectator like I've been for the past 2years.I could understand if I wasn't showing you any proof but that's not the case.I'm not another Dr.poe so PLease don't try and treat me like I am.Thanks for calling me out like you did it really has opened my eyes.



modtheworld44
 
modtheworld44,

I hope you will receive what I say as the way I intend it, as trying to help.

I have noticed you spending a lot of time to trying to reinvent the wheel, although I find it interesting, I have not seen much gain, I have followed for a while but I soon loose interest in the projects, I do not know you are getting anywhere yet, It makes me wonder if you are even learning how the processes Known to work are done, before trying to invent an unknown process.

I tried to read the post you made above (which looked much like my first post on the forum).

Since then I have tried to improve my writing with at least some spaces in the post, for someone to rest their eyes between all those words. I had a very hard time reading your post, and could not really understand it. (That reminded me how Harold had hurt my feelings saying he could not read what I wrote on my first post, and said would not even try to read it).

But what I did get out of trying to read your post, was it did not look like you understood how the do the processes, or at least explain it very well, what I read sounded like you would dump a whole lot of chemicals together and would hope to get something out of it, what I thought from what I read it just sounded dangerous, and just a big mess with an accident waiting to happen.

I do not know if these cells that you are working on will ever prove to be useful or not, so far I have not seen anything I would pursue with them, although it is very interesting, (and I have enjoyed watching your videos), I have yet to see anything of value from them, with electrical current and most any electrolyte we can force a metal to go into solution by oxidizing the metal at the anode, so if this is all you have done as yet, then I do not see any new mouse trap, just you discovering a simple principle. This is not to say your mouse trap might not work, I am just saying I do not see anything yet that holds my interest enough to think it will.

I feel your so busy trying to build a new wheel, but have yet to learn how the wheels that are proven to work actually work, so in this it just seems to me at this point your just spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere.

I would try working more on understanding how the wheel works, and how to use these wheels, before trying to invent a new one.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top