Getting the mercury out SAFELY!
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solar_plasma
Well-known member
it's-all-lie:
I have thought much about your point of view. I see, the USA are a very big country, where you some places can drive for long time without seeing a human, big cities with getthoes and a wide cliff between rich and poverty, criminality far from what is usual in my home country, - USA is a country of extremes. I guess this is not comparable to germany. I find, there may be circumstances, an armed public is a necessarity.
I have thought much about your point of view. I see, the USA are a very big country, where you some places can drive for long time without seeing a human, big cities with getthoes and a wide cliff between rich and poverty, criminality far from what is usual in my home country, - USA is a country of extremes. I guess this is not comparable to germany. I find, there may be circumstances, an armed public is a necessarity.
patnor1011
Well-known member
That's not really true statement.
What is crime rate in Switzerland where everyone get to take his rifle home right after he finish his time in army? Armed public is the best deterrent of crime.
What is crime rate in Switzerland where everyone get to take his rifle home right after he finish his time in army? Armed public is the best deterrent of crime.
solar_plasma
Well-known member
Let's think about, what would be a realistic crime situation, where a gun could stop the crime. If you are the victim, you will not have the time to use a gun - that's also the argument of the german law. But I would feel quite safe in a texan (?) drugstore with plenty of armed customers. A gun at home makes me quite unsafe, the possibilitiy I could use it for protection is very unlikely, the risc someone finds the key, plays around with the gun or steals it or uses it against myself, it not that unlikely. But that is seen with the eyes of someone who lives in germany.
Switzerland? They wouldn't have much criminality with or without their guns at home....ok, financial crime, human trafficking, smuggling...lots of....do the automatic rifles help...nope. And I really don't know, how you want to use a rifle to protect yourself. Someone who is 200 m away is not really a danger to you, - unless he is an insane sniper. A short weapon may make a sense as stated above. But maybe it's again the difference here and there - the distances are quite smaller here. :lol: If you fire a bullet into the air in germany, you will probably hurting someone when the bullet falls down again :lol: .
Switzerland? They wouldn't have much criminality with or without their guns at home....ok, financial crime, human trafficking, smuggling...lots of....do the automatic rifles help...nope. And I really don't know, how you want to use a rifle to protect yourself. Someone who is 200 m away is not really a danger to you, - unless he is an insane sniper. A short weapon may make a sense as stated above. But maybe it's again the difference here and there - the distances are quite smaller here. :lol: If you fire a bullet into the air in germany, you will probably hurting someone when the bullet falls down again :lol: .
Interesting point of view and i agree to some extent. But what would a pistol do for me in a situation like this?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCiC6qTtjs[/youtube]
Or during a natural disaster like this?
If you shoot one person in a situation like this you better be prepared to shoot them all and for that i need 2 things, stopping power and rapid fire capabilities. Your argument might be just let them have what they want and they will leave. Well once you have surrendered your property what's to stop them from say raping your loved ones or harming your children? The police? Yeah...... I don't think so. I will take my Ar anyday!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCrMNEdweY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCiC6qTtjs[/youtube]
Or during a natural disaster like this?
If you shoot one person in a situation like this you better be prepared to shoot them all and for that i need 2 things, stopping power and rapid fire capabilities. Your argument might be just let them have what they want and they will leave. Well once you have surrendered your property what's to stop them from say raping your loved ones or harming your children? The police? Yeah...... I don't think so. I will take my Ar anyday!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCrMNEdweY[/youtube]
solar_plasma
Well-known member
And I understand your point to some degree. And ofcourse there are cases, it would be an easy solution, if everyone was equipped like some tactical forces. Looking on the benefits and disadvantages, in the case of the society I am living in,it is good as it is.
But after a disaster, knowledge, tactics and skills...also social skills and Sun Tsu will be your most powerful weapon to survive and protect your people. A well armed mob with offensive military weapon would be contraproductive. There is always a bigger fish in the lake. A disaster is the end of social networking. All depends on recreation of those networks.
*lol* I am no pacifist. One of the few reasons, why I have served in the army. I like guns and I like to shoot. I have that point of view, because it is the advantageous strategy.
edit:
btw. that katrina disaster went that bad is, because your country is very poorly prepared for disasters.
But after a disaster, knowledge, tactics and skills...also social skills and Sun Tsu will be your most powerful weapon to survive and protect your people. A well armed mob with offensive military weapon would be contraproductive. There is always a bigger fish in the lake. A disaster is the end of social networking. All depends on recreation of those networks.
*lol* I am no pacifist. One of the few reasons, why I have served in the army. I like guns and I like to shoot. I have that point of view, because it is the advantageous strategy.
edit:
btw. that katrina disaster went that bad is, because your country is very poorly prepared for disasters.
patnor1011
Well-known member
You must think differently. It is not that how can be rifle used to defend yourself but that simple knowledge that there may be rifle in the house will deter criminal from wanting to have a look. It is not only rifle, that was used as example, Swiss government want their citizens armed and ready. They do have small arms and can buy as many as they want. That army rifle is a gift from government. They give them some ammo once a year to go shoot to have some practice. Their crime rate is slow mainly because criminals wont risk getting shot at. I believe that we as people surrendered way too much of our rights and duties to faceless government entities. It is no longer that our representatives represent us but more that we do what few people decide, and just try to have different view and then you will be called with all sort of names.
solar_plasma
Well-known member
This swiss thing isinteresting, I will read about it the next days.
My opinion about weapon is strongly influenced by the german law about self-defence and defence of a third person and the law about weapon. My point of view is adapted to those laws, so I never get in conflict with them. Here you are allowed to stop a present attack against human or goods with the minimal necessary force possible, - principle of proportionality. In practice this means, use a sword against a knife and you get prisoned, use the spade that accidentally is near you and you will stay free. So, the gun or the tactical knife are the absolutely last things, that would be smart to use for self-defense. If you kill a burglar, who is not armed, you will have very bad cards. If he is running away with stolen goods, you are allowed to stop him, - not more. Without stolen goods, you are not even allowed to shoot in his legs - though in the dark, full of adrenaline, 25 m away, only seconds to react ....the risc he gets more than a flesh wound will be very high.
Important to say, wherever you are in germany, it takes max. 10 minutes (typically 7 min.) until the police is there, maybe max. 40 minutes for a whole swat team. That's pretty safe. And we have not much criminality, where a gun would have helped the victim. Burglaries are typically done by extremely professional gangs from foreign countries often with elite military education or by stupid junkies. Both have no interest in the people in the house. And the stolen goods will be payed by your insurance...the germans have insurances for quite everthing *g*
So, what would probably be smart to do in germany? Be quiet, ring to the police, flee with the family from the house if possible or lock the room door and wait with the weapon in the ready, wether it is a fire extinguisher or a gun.
If I lived in the USA I would do it like the americans do, but here the conditions are different. So, my first critic was wrong.
Here you are responsible for what happens with your guns even when they get stolen. If someone steals your gun and uses it to kill somebody, even accidentally, you will get prisoned. Since it is hard to get weapon here, the concerns the weapon in your house would provocate a burglary are quite high. So you will not have them fastly at hand. There are few cases, having guns is allowed: hunters, sport shooters (not allowed to have it loaded ready at hand), collectors (the collection has to be of important historical value) policemen and other state security personnel (though most of them don't want to have it at home!), securities, possibly on ships and very, very seldom highly endangered persons like jewelers or prosecutors. Further you are always allowed to inherit weapon, though not the ammunition.
The benefit is, in germany it is extremely seldom someone gets killed by a gun.
Whatever, both ways, the US/swiss and the german way, have benefits and disadvantages.
My opinion about weapon is strongly influenced by the german law about self-defence and defence of a third person and the law about weapon. My point of view is adapted to those laws, so I never get in conflict with them. Here you are allowed to stop a present attack against human or goods with the minimal necessary force possible, - principle of proportionality. In practice this means, use a sword against a knife and you get prisoned, use the spade that accidentally is near you and you will stay free. So, the gun or the tactical knife are the absolutely last things, that would be smart to use for self-defense. If you kill a burglar, who is not armed, you will have very bad cards. If he is running away with stolen goods, you are allowed to stop him, - not more. Without stolen goods, you are not even allowed to shoot in his legs - though in the dark, full of adrenaline, 25 m away, only seconds to react ....the risc he gets more than a flesh wound will be very high.
Important to say, wherever you are in germany, it takes max. 10 minutes (typically 7 min.) until the police is there, maybe max. 40 minutes for a whole swat team. That's pretty safe. And we have not much criminality, where a gun would have helped the victim. Burglaries are typically done by extremely professional gangs from foreign countries often with elite military education or by stupid junkies. Both have no interest in the people in the house. And the stolen goods will be payed by your insurance...the germans have insurances for quite everthing *g*
So, what would probably be smart to do in germany? Be quiet, ring to the police, flee with the family from the house if possible or lock the room door and wait with the weapon in the ready, wether it is a fire extinguisher or a gun.
If I lived in the USA I would do it like the americans do, but here the conditions are different. So, my first critic was wrong.
Here you are responsible for what happens with your guns even when they get stolen. If someone steals your gun and uses it to kill somebody, even accidentally, you will get prisoned. Since it is hard to get weapon here, the concerns the weapon in your house would provocate a burglary are quite high. So you will not have them fastly at hand. There are few cases, having guns is allowed: hunters, sport shooters (not allowed to have it loaded ready at hand), collectors (the collection has to be of important historical value) policemen and other state security personnel (though most of them don't want to have it at home!), securities, possibly on ships and very, very seldom highly endangered persons like jewelers or prosecutors. Further you are always allowed to inherit weapon, though not the ammunition.
The benefit is, in germany it is extremely seldom someone gets killed by a gun.
Whatever, both ways, the US/swiss and the german way, have benefits and disadvantages.
I do find it interesting given the history of your country that your culture feels safe if the fact that you can rely on the police or authorities to protect your life and property. And i don't mean that in a bad way, it's just here in the U.S. the average consensus seems to be to avoid authority figures or not rely on their safety and well being solely at the hand of the government. It use to not be that way! God, Country, and family was our motto. Then of course you have the other side who believes the government is their friend, but hey! When it all jumps off we will see how it goes i guess. Huh! Funny thing is when i look at that motto i realize they have already destroyed the god part of it as well as the family organization part. I guess all that is left is Country?
solar_plasma
Well-known member
The USA have done a very good job, when they used what worked well from their own law and constitution and even improved it to constitute the new, free germany. It is safe, germany never again will become a dictatorship or a police-state, more safe maybe than even the US.
God has nothing to say in germany, he is private. The family is highly protected by the law. The german constitution secures that if right becomes wrong and wrong becomes right, every citizen has the right (edit: and duty) to resistance and we have a strong trisection of powers. Often politicians make decisions, which have to be taken back, because the highest judges judge them to be illegal.
Yes, also here there are elements, who want more "safety" and less freedom. Typically the middle-right wing (CDU/CSU) and here typically only the bavarian home secretary :lol: ...well, I guess it's his job to try ...but even the police organisation doesn't want that *rotfl*
God has nothing to say in germany, he is private. The family is highly protected by the law. The german constitution secures that if right becomes wrong and wrong becomes right, every citizen has the right (edit: and duty) to resistance and we have a strong trisection of powers. Often politicians make decisions, which have to be taken back, because the highest judges judge them to be illegal.
Yes, also here there are elements, who want more "safety" and less freedom. Typically the middle-right wing (CDU/CSU) and here typically only the bavarian home secretary :lol: ...well, I guess it's his job to try ...but even the police organisation doesn't want that *rotfl*
solar_plasma
Well-known member
Often the USA wonders, why germany is not likely to join in some wargames...well, germany is your best quality product. It's just what you have made. If all countries would be like this historical product, there would be peace on earth. :lol:
Though germany would always fight for what is really right.
Though germany would always fight for what is really right.
solar_plasma said:
You hit the nail on the head ! Lost of people misunderstand peoples stand on the government issue here in the states. I don't hate government one bit. We have to have it. The thing that corrupts government is the politicians we let run the government. Here in the U.S. it's suppose to be a government of the people, by the people, for the people, but instead when the people object to what the government is doing they tell us to sit down and behave like a good little child because we're to stupid to make decisions and that the governments role is to protect us from ourselves. And if you stand up guess what? They have a new word for you "Terrorist, conspiracy theorist, Traitor" Under all those you now get to enjoy the Patriot Act up close and personal. I see a run away government.
Want to know what constitutes "Domestic Terrorism"
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130621/NEWS/306210322
The FBI is calling the destruction of two crops of genetically engineered sugar beets in Jackson County "economic sabotage" that could lead to charges of domestic terrorism, depending on the outcome of the investigation.
Crime maybe? Domestic terrorism............... really?
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130621/NEWS/306210322
The FBI is calling the destruction of two crops of genetically engineered sugar beets in Jackson County "economic sabotage" that could lead to charges of domestic terrorism, depending on the outcome of the investigation.
Crime maybe? Domestic terrorism............... really?
solar_plasma
Well-known member
Hey, you guys have voted for two generations of Bush, or haven't voted at all, - there you go. :lol: Well, ok, I learned, that you cannot vote directly for a president, that makes it more complicated. And I know, your politicians are much more addicted to the industry which lies in the hands of a few families. Very, very complicated. Even a good president like Obama, I guess one of the best you ever had, has hard times trying to do, what is right.
Well I know, political discussions are not allowed in this forum and I believe, this is not political since we don't talk about one party or the other, but are aware of, that every good politician from every party cannot just do, what he knows, is right, but has take care of many influences only to stay where he is.
But before you are going to be unsatisfied, you should start to vote....I can't remember how many voted, but it was much too few for a democratic system.
And regarding your montsanto food....why are you guys over there buying it....the industry goes, where the money is. Here in germany ecological, biological products are the burner in every supermarket.
Well I know, political discussions are not allowed in this forum and I believe, this is not political since we don't talk about one party or the other, but are aware of, that every good politician from every party cannot just do, what he knows, is right, but has take care of many influences only to stay where he is.
But before you are going to be unsatisfied, you should start to vote....I can't remember how many voted, but it was much too few for a democratic system.
And regarding your montsanto food....why are you guys over there buying it....the industry goes, where the money is. Here in germany ecological, biological products are the burner in every supermarket.
solar_plasma
Well-known member
Here we are aware of our power as buyers and voters. For maybe 15 years ago, Shell had to learn this. They wanted to sink an oil plattform. The germans stopped buying at shell. Well, I guess the capacity for enthusiasm of the german people is still somewhat.... frightening. 8) :roll: :lol:
I would not retort in Your case, And Yes"I" have done it.(I have one) There are things that You need to know befor a good RETORT. EPA and safety!
First
What are You going to do with the "after RETORT"!
Second is- How is it safe?
I have a gold still and use Mercury to collect the AU, and silver!
Not safe! I use water and fire in a jar! The water goes back in the snuffer- The fumes go in a WW11 gas cart. under controled conditions. EPA!
If You smell anything. "You just hurt Yourself"!
So what is it of value to You, to use a retort for a simple buck?
I use a very complicated retort that has "0" emitions. The cost it well over the recovery rate!.
Any thing Mercury has contact with is tainted! Via :ANYTHING"!
Back in the day, I would make "SLICK" Dimes and sell them- Just like Hobo nickels-
Get the point? A hobo nickl never hurt anyone.. We find murcury in streams all of the time from the past-
Concider what You want for recovery....Mad
First
What are You going to do with the "after RETORT"!
Second is- How is it safe?
I have a gold still and use Mercury to collect the AU, and silver!
Not safe! I use water and fire in a jar! The water goes back in the snuffer- The fumes go in a WW11 gas cart. under controled conditions. EPA!
If You smell anything. "You just hurt Yourself"!
So what is it of value to You, to use a retort for a simple buck?
I use a very complicated retort that has "0" emitions. The cost it well over the recovery rate!.
Any thing Mercury has contact with is tainted! Via :ANYTHING"!
Back in the day, I would make "SLICK" Dimes and sell them- Just like Hobo nickels-
Get the point? A hobo nickl never hurt anyone.. We find murcury in streams all of the time from the past-
Concider what You want for recovery....Mad
bswartzwelder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 660
You know, it's kind of funny, but they used to make electrical switches which had a canister consisting of 2 contacts and a rather large dollop of mercury. When the switch was in the "OFF" position, the mercury could not touch the contacts. Change to the "on" position and the mercury would bridge the gap between the contacts completing the circuit. At one time, it was "all the rage".
I have also seen mercury switches for use in flammable or explosive atmospheres such as coal mines. That switch had a small vial with some mercury in it. It also had one contact which was formed into a loop and had a ceramic cup which was held into the loop. The other contact was just a solid wire with a blob on the end. The blob on the end fit neatly into the cup helping hold the cup in place. In one position, the vial was held upright with the mercury in the bottom of the vial. Flipping the vial over caused the mercury to completely cover the loop, ceramic cup, and blob completing the circuit. Since the mercury was in a hermetically sealed vial there was little chance of it escaping. Then the mechanics and the vial were pretty much sealed inside the switch body making an extra layer of safety against the sparks causing an explosion. I'm sure they have been replaced with newer types of switches which are just as safe and contain no mercury.
I have also seen mercury switches for use in flammable or explosive atmospheres such as coal mines. That switch had a small vial with some mercury in it. It also had one contact which was formed into a loop and had a ceramic cup which was held into the loop. The other contact was just a solid wire with a blob on the end. The blob on the end fit neatly into the cup helping hold the cup in place. In one position, the vial was held upright with the mercury in the bottom of the vial. Flipping the vial over caused the mercury to completely cover the loop, ceramic cup, and blob completing the circuit. Since the mercury was in a hermetically sealed vial there was little chance of it escaping. Then the mechanics and the vial were pretty much sealed inside the switch body making an extra layer of safety against the sparks causing an explosion. I'm sure they have been replaced with newer types of switches which are just as safe and contain no mercury.
Mercury switches had many uses in industry, many are being replaced with other types of switches, but you can still use, and buy mercury switches for many industrial applications.
