Gold inside chips (black, flatpacks - not CPU)

[Geo]

wet ashing is not recommended and is actually discouraged on the forum, and for good reason. concentrated sulfuric acid while cold can cause horrible scarring on soft tissue and permanent blindness on contact with eyes. this effect is multiplied as the temperature of the acid rises. hot sulfuric acid can dissolve flesh to the bone in a matter of moments and in far less time than it would take to try and rinse the spill. even lab-ware thats designed to heat can fail. it only take a split second to cause a life altering event. unless you are a trained lab technician and in a laboratory setting, DO NOT TRY TO WET ASH IC CHIPS.

 

[some888]

Even myself I would say: Do not follow my steps!!!

It is very dangerous..... but still less dangerous then Sarin :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: just kidding

 

[solar_plasma]

For those readers, who don't know the link and got curios why exactly wet ashing is not advised:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12508

 

[some888]

For those readers, who don't know the link and got curios why exactly wet ashing is not advised:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12508

I still could not get what is main danger

can you kindly explain to me please 8)

 

[solar_plasma]

I still could not get what is main danger

can you kindly explain to me please 8)

I do not understand your question. I think it is a very interesting process, though I don't want to use wet ashing, since I am very satisfied with common methods. Nevertheless I like to read every information about the process, especially from those, who have practical experience. Therefore I was interested in, how you ensured, that the temperature not get up to 300°C and how you handled the SO3 fumes, since those are personally my worst practical concerns. A third thing, which would make me feel bad, is the possibility the reaction vessel could break of whatever reason.

 

[some888]

ok

here is my reply

1 - there is no need to heat up up to 300c , what is the point ?........... just to reach acid boiling point?................ IC chips will disintegrate way before that
So I never heated up to that temperature

2 - Fumes Control
honestly I do not want to say in details how it was made ..... that is for very simple reason I did it not exactly as a book says.... and I do not want anybody to repeat that

but when it comes to SO3
I had no time and desire to analyse the fumes
but
* it is not an easy to produce it - in our case possible only when decomposing of Sulfuric acid just before it's boiling point to do that you need to keep constant temperature above 300c and do not let it boil for really considerable time , that is without other material present especially organic.
While we have organic in it most likely SO2 will be produced
it's still toxic and nothing healthy but you will not get sulfuric acid when in water ... you will need really strong oxidiser like nitric acid to produce sulfuric with SO2 even then it will be dilute

Whatever I said above about SO3 or SO2 I could be wrong but even if right It is still very dangerous!!!

 

[g_axelsson]

When you boil sulphuric acid you WILL release SO₃ gas!

Please, do not do this. One accidental sniff on the gas given off will INSTANTLY TURN INTO PURE SULPHURIC ACID INSIDE YOUR LUNGS!!!

... and if that isn't bad enough, if you get a lot inside your lungs it could rip the water from your flesh and turn it into carbon.

A common experiment is to take sugar and add sulphuric acid, the acid rips off the water in the sugar and leaves a carbon mess behind. Look at this video for example of what sulphuric acid can do.
This is at room temperature... I think Harold once said that a rise in temperature of 10 degrees makes a reaction go at double speed. Now consider what 280 degrees C sulphuric acid could do.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=100Bk580mPY[/youtube]

Göran

 

[patnor1011]

Some people just do not get it. They have to do whatever they have to do. It is called natural selection.
I would not touch this process outside laboratory settings and specialized hardware like titanium reactor. Whoever try this in home or shed is definitely not clever or brave but total opposite.

Every now and then some brave feller come here bragging about perfect way he discovered and how easy it is to do it.
Yeah, I know...

 

[solar_plasma]

Some888 wrote:

ok

here is my reply

1 - there is no need to heat up up to 300c , what is the point ?........... just to reach acid boiling point?................ IC chips will disintegrate way before that
So I never heated up to that temperature

The process is pretty exotherm, but I will reply with citations from those, who have practical experience and knowledge about hot sulfuric, since I always cool it down, when I have to use conc. sulfuric at work and therefore have luckily no experience with sulfuric hotter than 80°C:


samuel_a wrote:

- Slowly heated to 90° C (194° F) and left that way for 30 minutes.
This is a precautionary step to prevent too violent reaction and maybe a boilover.
The epoxy resin (Bismaleimide-triazine epoxy) will begin to disintegrate alsmost immediately.

- Then, heat is ramped up to 240°-250° C (464°-482° F) for one hour.

Some888 wrote:

2 - Fumes Control
honestly I do not want to say in details how it was made ..... that is for very simple reason I did it not exactly as a book says.... and I do not want anybody to repeat that

but when it comes to SO3
I had no time and desire to analyse the fumes
but
* it is not an easy to produce it - in our case possible only when decomposing of Sulfuric acid just before it's boiling point to do that you need to keep constant temperature above 300c and do not let it boil for really considerable time , that is without other material present especially organic.
While we have organic in it most likely SO2 will be produced

lazersteve wrote:

Trust me when I tell you that you don't want to be around 300+ degree celcius sulfuric acid with an open top reactor. A watch glass is not going to make much of a difference, if any. I have a few large ( 71/60 and 55/50 ) soxhlet rigs purchased especially for this type of reaction. Refluxing the water with the SO3 should help to reduce the fumes that escape the vessel and also allow for extraction of a much larger mass of epoxy with a given smaller quantity of concentrated sulfuric acid. Careful temperature control of the condenser and reaction vessel are critical to containing the SO3 gas safely. Proper handling and scrubbing of any off gases is also very important.

Some888 wrote:

it's still toxic and nothing healthy but you will not get sulfuric acid when in water ... you will need really strong oxidiser like nitric acid to produce sulfuric with SO2 even then it will be dilute

Whatever I said above about SO3 or SO2 I could be wrong but even if right It is still very dangerous!!!

samual-a wrote:

At which point, white Sulfur Trioxide fumes are noticble.

lazersteve wrote:

Careful heating and cooling of pyrex glass is critical when working with these extremely dangerous reagents (eg. hot concentrated sulfuric acid) at high temperatures. If your reactor breaks, there is a very high probability that you are going to get hurt. Fused quartz glassware would be a much better choice for use with this reagent and temperature.

lazersteve wrote:

Hot acids are all bad, but 250C+ sulfuric acid is especially nasty due to the copious amounts of thick white SO3 that is produced.

Oz wrote:

hfywc wrote:

nobody argue that this procedure is highly dangerous. but sam showed that this can be done in a safe manner. all we need is to create a super safe procedure that anyone can follow.

That will never happen, it is an inherently dangerous procedure.

 

[some888]

I am not saying it is healthy in any way
but when it comes to sugar

C12H22O11 + H2SO4 = CO2 + SO2 + H20

and depends what crap inside of chips but it will be pretty much the same

 

[solar_plasma]

I am not saying it is healthy in any way
but when it comes to sugar

C12H22O11 + H2SO4 = CO2 + SO2 + H20

and depends what crap inside of chips but it will be pretty much the same

I thought also about that sugar experiment, but what I have read about wet ashing of plastics has obviously not much in common with it. And since I read those threads I see conc. sulfuric in a new light.

The reaction above is, if my schoolbooks are right, a dehydration process of sugar....sometimes schoolbooks are not correct, though. But from what we have read now, the SO3 forms in a drifferent process about 250°C and above. I don't dare to say, if it is caused the same reason, why HCL solution will vaporize H2O up to 20% concentration and then HCl vaporizes. Maybe one of the chemists like to tell us. Otherwise I will have a look. Shouldn't be hard to find out.

 

[some888]

trust me guys if SO3 could be produced so easily some toilet cleaners would be never produced... because that will kill pretty much every body in the building from manager to poor cleaner itself
just do not heat sulfuric acid to 300c ( not an easy anyway) only then you have a serious chances of getting SO3 even then that is provided sulfulic acid is left after desintegrating organic

 

[solar_plasma]

At 650 °C (1,202 °F), copper(II) sulfate decomposes into copper(II) oxide (CuO) and sulfur trioxide (SO3).

wikipedia

When working with chemicals, differentiate between, what you believe and what you really know. It could save your life.

 

[some888]

At 650 °C

let's think a bit for now

1 there will be no sulfuric acid anymore
2 no BOROSILICATE GLASS will handle it
3 you will need to use the torch to get it

and more likely this could happen when you burn chips

 

[Geo]

sulfuric acid is hygroscopic and will absorb water from the air. its this action that causes the injuries to the human body. the acid pulls the water from the cells leaving carbon behind. it doesnt stop until the acid is neutralized or rinsed off. when the acid is heated, the action speeds up as most reactions do. sulfuric acid is heavy and the fumes settle quickly and will flow like water to the low spots. this is a re-post but i think its a good place for them.

 

[some888]

yes m8.
sulfuric does all of above

but it does the same with reverse electroplating as well if no safety precautions taken

I just do not understand why to point out several times in the row ( probably on about two pages) dangers of this method, when I never argued about it's being dangerous

And for whatever reason nobody comments "grinding chips"

 

[Geo]

because mate' (m8) is texting lingo and against forum rules and a forum with over 23,000 members and countless visitors on various search engines to see someone arguing the pro's of a dangerous and potentially deadly process might think that "hey, if 'ol mate says he did it, then i can do it too). i will fill every page in the forum arguing against its use if i have to.

 

[some888]

can you please quote me where did I say it is safe?

 

[martyn111]

because mate' (m8) is texting lingo and against forum rules and a forum with over 23,000 members and countless visitors on various search engines to see someone arguing the pro's of a dangerous and potentially deadly process might think that "hey, if 'ol mate says he did it, then i can do it too). i will fill every page in the forum arguing against its use if i have to.

Good point, well made Geo.
The forum motto, Gold refiners helping one another, begins with safety
A process may be possible, but, unless you have the knowledge and experience to carry out that process in a safe manner, then you have no business attempting it.

 

[jimdoc]

can you please quote me where did I say it is safe?

You have been a forum member since; "Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:43 am"

If you have been studying the forum like all good members do, you would have read about the dangers of that process, and the fact that it is highly discouraged here on the forum.

Some processes just aren't worth the risk, this is one of them.

Jim