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I had a fun field trip yesterday and went to the museum to see a gold exhibit.
Very interesting facts about gold, the history of gold, gold mining in Georgia, etc.

There were some great items on display like some of those bars recovered from
the wreck of the Central America steamer. It was wild looking at the display and
seeing those big bars of gold, coins, etc. Great history lesson! They did have to
send in a cleaning crew to get the drool off of the plexiglass protecting the displays
after I left!! :lol:

I did find myself quite amused at the paltry 2+ troy ounces that I have processed
and refined compared to all those huge bars and nuggets!!! :lol: :lol:

Recovering and refining gold from escrap or karat gold sure seemed to be a lot easier
to me than seeing folks bending over in the creek and panning for gold! 8)
 
yeah... until you will not find this...
I am quite sure that there must be several of these sweeties still burried deep somewhere......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_nugget
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=235136
 
glorycloud said:
I had a fun field trip yesterday and went to the museum to see a gold exhibit.
Very interesting facts about gold, the history of gold, gold mining in Georgia, etc.

There were some great items on display like some of those bars recovered from
the wreck of the Central America steamer. It was wild looking at the display and
seeing those big bars of gold, coins, etc. Great history lesson! They did have to
send in a cleaning crew to get the drool off of the plexiglass protecting the displays
after I left!! :lol:

I did find myself quite amused at the paltry 2+ troy ounces that I have processed
and refined compared to all those huge bars and nuggets!!! :lol: :lol:

Recovering and refining gold from escrap or karat gold sure seemed to be a lot easier
to me than seeing folks bending over in the creek and panning for gold! 8)


http://www.sscentralamerica.com/

--snip--

The cargo also contained privately-made gold coins and ingots produced by such historic, government-supervised San Francisco Gold Rush-era assayers as Blake & Co.; Kellogg & Humbert; Wass Molitor & Co.; Harris, Marchand & Co.; and Justh & Hunter.

The largest ingot recovered is an astonishing gold brick that weighs 933 ounces, nearly 80 pounds, made by assayers Kellogg & Humbert.

--snip--
Dust and nuggets, which were among the most intriguing finds of the expedition, were the rawest form of gold coming out of the streams and gold fields in and around the foothills of the Sierra Nevada. Gold dust represented the base of San Francisco's earliest monetary system. Sending dust and raw nuggets all the way to the US governments main mint in Philadelphia for assaying and coining was too costly and time consuming. Thus, San Francisco relied on a "dust economy," in which the gold dust, measured by the weight or by the "pinch," served as currency.

This was a poor medium of exchange, however. For one thing, California gold dust varied from only 58 percent to more than 98 percent pure. Measurement was imprecise and prices highly speculative. At one point, the glut of dust in old San Francisco was so great that buyers were paying only $8.00 per ounce, far below the $20.67 US government standard for pure gold and roughly $18.00 per ounce paid by the Philadelphia Mint for gold dust.

--snip--

bars.jpg


Despite the near mint state condition of a wide variety of rare coins, the most unusual element of the Central America treasure may be the hundreds of "assay ingots." These range from pocket-sized, such as the small, rectangular five-ounce Blake & Company ingots produced in Sacramento, to a massive, 63-pound, "two by four" (2 by 4 by 11 ½ inches) ingot from Justh and Hunter. Their purity varies as widely as their size, differing from 580 fine (just over half gold) to the 973 fine (indicating a nearly pure gold value).

Although less common in the consumer marketplace than the coins, the ingots are as revealing of the era and are also more unusual in that they are all in private issue. Many began as dust and nuggets in the pockets of miners, who brought the raw gold to private assayers for weighting and valuation. The assayers melted down the gold, molded it into ingots, and then shaved off a corner for their commission and to measure the purity. Finally they would stamps the gold with unique identifying marks, indicating the weight, purity, and value, as well as their own maker's marks, and return the ingots to the owners. Gold in this form was the preferred type shipped to banks and other businesses, as well as the US government. Commercial shippers also brought their gold to private assayers, but did so in larger allotments. Five assayers are represented in the treasure of the Central America: Blake and Company, Kellogg & Humbert, Justh and Hunter, Harris, Marchand & Company, and Henry Henstch.

--snip--
 
Yeah, the snipped off opposing corners on the ingots was very fascinating!!
Sure wouldn't seem too precise to me. Kind of like letting the same person choose
which piece of pie they get after cutting it themselves. :lol:

I imagine the corners were weighed "fairly" somehow. One corner was used for the
fire assay and the other corner cut off was for the assayers commission / fee. 8)
 
glorycloud said:
Yeah, the snipped off opposing corners on the ingots was very fascinating!!
Sure wouldn't seem too precise to me. Kind of like letting the same person choose
which piece of pie they get after cutting it themselves. :lol:

I imagine the corners were weighed "fairly" somehow. One corner was used for the
fire assay and the other corner cut off was for the assayers commission / fee. 8)

Where did the Gold from the assay go, pray tell? 8)
 
glorycloud said:
I wondered about that! The corners seemed pretty big on those ingots! 8)

I suspect it is a source of Gold to make coinage. A little bit here, a little bit there and it all adds up to making a living. :mrgreen:
 
Irons said:
glorycloud said:
Yeah, the snipped off opposing corners on the ingots was very fascinating!!
Sure wouldn't seem too precise to me. Kind of like letting the same person choose
which piece of pie they get after cutting it themselves. :lol:

I imagine the corners were weighed "fairly" somehow. One corner was used for the
fire assay and the other corner cut off was for the assayers commission / fee. 8)

Where did the Gold from the assay go, pray tell? 8)
When i first worked in the bullion industry i worked 4 the largest dealer in the UK, when the scrap was melted a chip sample was taken from the resultant bars which few customers were aware of,every few months the chips and assay foils were sent into the refinery weighing around 5 kilos and having an assay of around 45% not a bad perk 4 the company.....
 
Si if I send in a pound of clean pins for assay, what is it going to cost? Any idea yet? I would love to get some kind of idea of how much gold is in this 140 pounds of clean pins I have.

Thanks!
 
Post a Photo of the 1 lb sample and spread them out well enough to show a good idea of their composition.
I'm sure that somebody will offer a idea fo the amount of the gold contained in 1 lb and then you can get a reasonable idea of the total value of the pins.
Don't forget that you have refining costs that have to be deducted from any possible profits.
dickb
 
I know it's not the best photo, but it will do. It's a shot of the gold plated scrap I have. This stuff all comes out of big mainframe type stuff from data centers, no desktop type stuff. There are pins from the early seventies right up to the mid 2000's. Like I said, about 150 pounds of it and still adding. No pins in the lot that have only the tips plated. 98% of these pins are 100% plated and the other 2% are about 80% plated. If you look up in the left hand top corner you can see a square pin that has 4 tabs that are not plated. Those make up the 2%.

P1010045.jpg
 
Here's a start.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=5226&start=0&hilit=yield+for+pins

Read this and I'm sure others will jump in.

dickb
 
nice lot, unfortunetly au plated pins vary in PM content so much! So I wont guess, and miss lead you.
Strongly suggest you go ahead and get a homogenious sample and have it assayed prior to selling the material.
I wouldnt be surprised if your 150 lbs is worth more then $10K USD intrinsic value.
 
Platdigger said:
Because you have mixed them from so many different years of manufacture, I doubt it will be easy to get a truely representative assay of the entire lot.


Ya, I know. It would have been impossible to try to keep them separate by YOM. Someday, I will have them refined. I just thought maybe if I mixed them up enough and sent off a pound, I might get a good idea on an assay.
 
Silversaddle1:

Ok now read here:

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=5092&hilit=tumbler#p43759

PM goldsilverpro and ask him what he will charge to do the assay.

My figures from lazersteves numbers .25grams / LB $8.89 X 140 =$1,244.60, 3grams /LB 106.69 X 140 = $14,936.60
Gold spot $1050.00/toz = $35.56/gram

Good luck.
dickb
 
Platdigger said:
Because you have mixed them from so many different years of manufacture, I doubt it will be easy to get a truely representative assay of the entire lot.
Platdigger is right. The value spread in those pins could cover the entire gamut from maybe .25 g/# to 3 g/#. The overall accuracy of the assay is very dependent on first getting a representative sample. In sampling most anything, getting a 100% representative sample is impossible, unless you run the entire lot. However, there are sampling methods that could greatly improve the end results.

There are lots of options. For those mixed pins, I can think of about 3 ways that you could do it. In any case, tumbling or blending would probably aggravate the situation. I think the entire batch would segregate and the smaller pins would tend to end up on the bottom.

(1) The simplest, but most probably the least accurate method, would be to first spread them out, then take small scoops from here and there and combine them. The problem with this is obvious - where do you take the parts from?

(2) Another way would be to use a sample splitter. Here is what one type looks like. As you can see, they are expensive.
http://www.lmine.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=riffle
You simply pour the pins in from the top using a dustpan. The riffles separate the material into two portions. On the two sides, there are pans that the material falls into. Every other riffle goes to one pan and the other riffles go to the other pan. You re-split the material from one of the pans. This is continued until you end up with about one pound. If you start with 150 pounds, this would take 7 splittings. However, as you can see, these splitters are available with different sized openings. I would be hard pressed to advise the best size for these pins. The size could make a difference in the accuracy.

(3) Coning and Quartering. This is an ancient sampling method that you can do without buying any equipment. For the pins, I think this would be as good (or, maybe, better) as using a sample splitter. It is much more laborious, however. I could probably go through the whole cone and quartering procedure on the 150# of pins in 30 minutes or less.
(A) On a clean surface (floor), all the pins are slowly poured or added with a scoop, from slightly above, onto a single point on the floor. As you add the pins, they will form a cone shaped pile. The pins are always poured or added on the apex of the cone as much as possible. As the pins are added, they will slide down the cone shaped pile somewhat. They should slide down equally all around the cone. This is very easy to do but hard to explain. In order to confine the parts added to the apex of the cone, some people fix a stationary funnel or hopper and add the parts through that. With a funnel, I would select one with about a 2" opening, in order that the parts run free through the hole and don't jam.
(B) Flatten out the pile to about 1/2"-1" thick. A fairly large piece of thin sheet metal will work. Push straight down and wiggle the sheet metal slightly as you work. The resulting pile should be fairly circular and of uniform thickness.
(C) Divide the pile into 4 fairly equal parts. See the attachment. This can be done with a piece of sheet metal.
(D) As explained in the attachment, remove 2 opposite segments. The other 2 segments are combined and the coning and quartering is repeated. This is continued until you have about 1 pound of pins - 7 times for 150#.

In any sampling method, you try to take yourself out of the picture. For example, it would be unwise to try and estimate the mix and then select quantities of specific parts to satisfy your estimate.

For much greater accuracy, more than one sample should be run. The results are then averaged. For each sample, the entire cone and quarter process should be repeated.

In fire assaying, when lots of copper is involved, the sample size is limited to just a few grams. This problem can be eliminated by first dissolving the copper from the 1# sample(s) in nitric acid or HCl/H2O2. All the residue from each sample is collected on a separate filter paper, rinsed well and dried. Then, I could fire assay the total sample(s) residues, paper and all. The nitric prep work could be done by you or me. If I did it, I would have to charge for it.

It is also possible to melt (the melt must be stirred well) the pound sample of pins and then drill the bar or button in several places and send me about 5 grams of drillings. The problem is that some of the copper will oxidize (try to melt with reducing conditions) and the assay results will be high. Weigh the bar or button before drilling. That way, if you have exact weights of the pins being melted and of the bar or button, a compensation can be made in the final calculations. This would assume, of course, that no gold is trapped in the copper oxide. With a good melt, it shouldn't be.

Note that this specific info is only good for that particular batch of pins. Every deal is, at least, a little bit different. Good sampling is an art/science unto itself.

Good sampling is extremely important but it ain't that easy to do.

Chris Owen
 
Hello Chris:

Thanks for jumping in here.

Very interesting read. I learn something new every day here.

I figured you would be the closest choice for him.

dickb
 
I wasn't getting enough assay work to cover expenses so, rather than sign another lease for the building I'm in, I've decided to shut the business down and put all the equipment in storage. I'll either sell the equipment or maybe do something with it at a later date.

For the few of you that I did work for, thank you.

I just deleted all but one of posts I made in the two threads concerning this business.

Chris
 

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