Help with reverse electro plating

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Mouchman

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
5
so i've decided to try my hand at reverse electroplating to consolidate my scrap gold before purifying with AR, i figured it would be the easiest way next to nitric acid to isolate the gold. Ive been fingering through the forum looking for ideas for setups and procedure and i think i may have something.

i set up an old car battery charger with a 2/10 amp selector with alligator clips, i have a glass casserole dish, a 8 inch stainless steel rod, and im using drain cleaner made of potassium hydroxide (KOH) as an electrolyte solution and my scrap is gold plated copper pins recovered from commercial grade PCB's, with what appears to be either solder or nickel plating underneath the gold.

my procedure was simple, pour the solution in the dish, select the 10 amps, connect the negative lead to the stainless steel cathode, and the positive lead to the pins on the anode.

now my problem is the anode. for my first attempt, i actually used vinegar as a solution just to experiment the setup, and i used a flattened copper pipe as my anode.

after leaving the cell running overnight, i checked it in the morning and it seemed that somthing had worked. the stainless steel rod was covered in black sludge and there was also residue on the bottom of the dish. but upon closer inspection, the pins were untouched and it looked like i had done nothing more then copper plate the rod. so i cleaned the set up and repeated with a new anode and the KOH as the solution.

for my second anode, i took a 2inch x 5 inch x 1/8 inch copper plate and placed the gold pins on that and repeated the process. however the results were similar, copper plated rod.

for my third run, i switched to a stainless steel shower drain cover, so it made a nice little basket for the pins. however, after leaving this one for a only a half hour or so, i checked the progress and the bottom of the drain had been dissolved and the gold remained untouched.

now i also tested clipping the positive lead directly to a pin and after a minute, the gold had reverse plated, so i know that that method works, but i have over 6 coffee cans full of pins and this would be way too time consuming to do each pin.

so my question is, what type of anode setup should i be using to get the biggest batch i can get with out polluting the recovery as much as possible?

any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated
 
Get some copper mesh from my webstore and keep the temperature down and water out when using it.

Steve
 
is copper mesh the only option? because after my first two attempts, im not too keen on using copper if i can avoid it
 
Copper is very resistant to warm concentrated sulfuric acid.

If the acid becomes hot or diluted then the copper will corrode away.

Have you read any of the posts related to keep your sulfuric cell running smoothly?

Have you been on the Guided Tour?

Steve
 
i have read through some of them, but i thought my problem was the anode, not the electrolyte, so i guess i was searching the wrong thing

is H2SO4 better to use then KOH? i thought KOH was a better electrolyte?
and no i haven't been on the tour yet

thank you again for all your help
 
we pretty much all use concentrated sulfuric here
sulfuric dont disolve too much copper when you keep it concentrated and cold,also you can reuse the sulfuric acid by just boiling it down ,saving money.....
for KOH i dont know many poeple who use it for gold pin,you might have found a good way to remove copper from pin,but it is more fast to remove gold from pin...
BUT i read a guy who have used table salt....
your probleme is that here anybody know about sulfuric cell but not many about KOH

BY THE WAY KOH IS A REAL DANGEROUS STUFF ,I HAVE WORKED WITH IT AND IT MAKE HOLE IN YOUR SKIN WITHOUT YOU FEEL9ING IT... WEAR A FULL FACE OR MINIMALY GOGGLE ... ONE PIN HEAD DROP IN THE EYE WILL GET YOU IN A REALY BAD POSITION

have fun
 
Potassium hydroxide
sodium hydroxide & Sodium hypochlorite are for removing the material that covers the circuit board everywhere except where it is to be soldered known as a solder mask.
The reason for this is to allow your solution to get at the gold trace or gold plating the mask covers when is dissolving your base metals
When running a cell definitely use concentrated sulfuric acid
Now steve shows the lead anode and the lead cathode in his video this gas changed I take it.could someone explain
thanks steyr223
 
Read through the Guided Tour throughly and pay special attention to the Reaction List in the Sulfuric cell section (#6). There is a link near the photo of the dried black powder called 'Cell Information'. While you are there read the link below it titled 'Black Powder from the Cell'.

Steve
 
steyr223 said:
Now steve shows the lead anode and the lead cathode in his video this gas changed I take it.could someone explain
thanks steyr223

The anode is made of a steel rail and whatever type of contactor you want to use to connect to your gold plated material (copper clips or copper mesh). The only lead (Pd) electrode is the negative lead (cathode).

cell_insert.jpg


Steve
 
Dear All,

I am trying to use reverse electro plating cell for gold pin for the first time.
I am using a 6V 7A battery charger, Lead cathod and copper mesh with 98% sulfuric acid in a 1L breaker.
Now i have problem, The problem is the gold strip out from the pin in flake form(not in black powder form) and also copper is dissloving and stick on my lead cathod Acid Turn Green/Blue. The acid is not hot.

I did not saw any black powder but only tiny gold flake, Lead cathod full of copper. What actually did i go wrong?

I have also try out 6V and 12V battery charger but in difference current but the result is still the same.
Please help me out....
Thanks........
 
it sounds like you are using the wrong acid. if you are sure its sulfuric acid then its been diluted and its dissolving copper.
 
Franciz said:
Dear All,

I am trying to use reverse electro plating cell for gold pin for the first time.
I am using a 6V 7A battery charger, Lead cathod and copper mesh with 98% sulfuric acid in a 1L breaker.
Now i have problem, The problem is the gold strip out from the pin in flake form(not in black powder form) and also copper is dissloving and stick on my lead cathod Acid Turn Green/Blue. The acid is not hot.

I did not saw any black powder but only tiny gold flake, Lead cathod full of copper. What actually did i go wrong?

I have also try out 6V and 12V battery charger but in difference current but the result is still the same.
Please help me out....
Thanks........

I think if you will lower your voltage and current you will solve part of your problem.
 
Geo said:
it sounds like you are using the wrong acid. if you are sure its sulfuric acid then its been diluted and its dissolving copper.

I am using sulfuric acid 98%, I brought this in battery store.
How can i tell if it is begin diluted?
 
Barren Realms 007 said:
Franciz said:
Dear All,

I am trying to use reverse electro plating cell for gold pin for the first time.
I am using a 6V 7A battery charger, Lead cathod and copper mesh with 98% sulfuric acid in a 1L breaker.
Now i have problem, The problem is the gold strip out from the pin in flake form(not in black powder form) and also copper is dissloving and stick on my lead cathod Acid Turn Green/Blue. The acid is not hot.

I did not saw any black powder but only tiny gold flake, Lead cathod full of copper. What actually did i go wrong?

I have also try out 6V and 12V battery charger but in difference current but the result is still the same.
Please help me out....
Thanks........

I think if you will lower your voltage and current you will solve part of your problem.

Hi barren,
I have already lower down the current but it is still the same.
Thanks
 
Battery acid is usually already diluted when they get it. You might go to the auto parts store or back to the battery store and see if they have cheap specific gravity battery tester.
 
brand new battery acid needs to be evaporated roughly two thirds of its volume to be concentrated. the battery acid i get is about 25%? maybe, ill have to check the box. battery acid is simply diluted sulfuric acid. if you were using the acid straight from the box, you were using diuted sulfuric.
 
Geo said:
brand new battery acid needs to be evaporated roughly two thirds of its volume to be concentrated. the battery acid i get is about 25%? maybe, ill have to check the box. battery acid is simply diluted sulfuric acid. if you were using the acid , you were using diuted sulfuric.

Hi Geo,

Do you mean i need to boil the acid until it evaporated roughly two thirds of its volume?
The battery acid i get is in a normal beer bottle and is written 98% Sulfuric Acid on the bottle and it only cost me about USD50Cents for 450ml.
Maybe all sulfuric acid for new battery is diluted, If so what should i do for 98% sulfuric?

What is the recommend AMP for a 6v or 12v battery charger for reverse electroplating process.

Thanks Everyone for sharing......
 
when you are concentrating sulfuric acid you have to be very careful. WARNING : hot sulfuric acid will cause sever chemical burns and blindness on contact with eyes. i use an old pyrex coffee pot, it has been heated enough to temper it well. be sure it has no cracks or chips missing. set up a hot plate in an area outside a safe distance from, well, everything. place the acid in the pot and the pot on the hot plate. heat in stages (low) (medium) (high) give each stage time to heat up. when the acid begins to boil, water vapor will be released. monitor the process closely. as the volume reduces the boiling will slow down (more water = more vigorous boiling, less water = more gentle boiling). at this stage the vapor escaping is acid vapor (do not breath). when the boiling has all but stopped the acid will heat quickly and the container will fail so the final stage must be monitored very closely. when you observe very little boil but alot of vapor the acid is concentrated to the point where you are losing acid. unplug the power cord, that i forgot to mention using for the hot plate, and let the solution cool where it sits before trying to handle it because it is now at its most dangerous. after it cools you can use a plastic funnel and put it in a thick plastic container with a tight fitting lid. this acid will be suitable for the sulfuric stripping cell.
 
Franciz

I see you are in Thailand. I have no idea what concentration is available in your country so you need some other way to test the concentration.

Do you have an accurate scale and measuring cylinder, or a hygrometer?
 
qst42know said:
Franciz

I see you are in Thailand. I have no idea what concentration is available in your country so you need some other way to test the concentration.

Do you have an accurate scale and measuring cylinder, or a hygrometer?

How are you Qst42know, Hope you are fine.
I have no idea how to test it i am just trying new method for gold recovery.
All i have is 98% concentrate sulfuric acid, Should i boil it?

And also i have access to 98% Sodium hydroxide in flake form can i use this for my new reverse electroplating cell?
How should i start?

Thanks alot.......
Franciz
 
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