Help with reverse electro plating

[Soar2c]

My experiment went well. But now the scary part...and I cant seem to figure it out.. empty the contents in the pyrex glass dish into a large glass pickle jar and successfully filter the black gold particulate contents for recovery. I tried using several types of coffee filters papers of several different mesh sizes...well I'm not chemist but the filter turns to gel...so it's not a mesh filter size issue, it's a material issue. I found only 1 other thing, it was a pre filter to my fireplace ash vacuum...it looked like it was a shiny poly fabric and sulfuric acid came in a plastic container so I figured this was the ticket...again I'm no chemist, and i believe that material was fiberglass or polyester or some shit but again I was way wrong. I looked everywhere around here to try and McGyver something from an old part and I'm not coming up with anything worth attempting to filter this black gold nanoparticle from solution. Anyone have any help they can offer. I really need this cause I gotta sell it. My backs against the wall and it's the only light I have at the end of the tunnel. This chemistry stuffs scares me right outta my boots. But it's all I got, and I'm all I got so I'm sucking it up and doing it all everything I can do to breath. If you could help me I'd appreciate it highly. Can ya help me realize a realistic price per gram I can enter into a negotiation with also? And for one final pitch to get me on my way, does anyone have a buyer lead they wouldnt mind sharing with me? I'd be willing to offer a 3% referral reward leading to sale thats not a sabotaged one and that's fair. Thanks in advance. I hate asking for anything, honestly, so this really took me being scared as all hell and my back against the wall. I've searched and searched and searched...and right now I'm exhausted and calling out for an assist, a lifeline. I'm close, and crushed in all honesty, but I'm hopeful and I'm here doing the unthinkable and moving any possible opportunity i have or that presents itself. Just honestly need a lifeline. I appreciate you whoever you happen to be. Thank you.

 

[lazersteve]

Polypropylene filter cloth cut from sheet is the solution to your dissolved filter. Vacuum assisted filtration.

If you don't have Polypropylene then dilute with 6+ parts water, allow to cool and filter.

Steve

 

[lazersteve]

Reconstitute sulfuric acid for cell by evaporation of filtered solution to remove added water.

Steve

 

[Shark]

Polypropylene filter cloth cut from sheet is the solution to your dissolved filter. Vacuum assisted filtration.

If you don't have Polypropylene then dilute with 6+ parts water, allow to cool and filter.

Steve

Reconstitute sulfuric acid for cell by evaporation of filtered solution to remove added water.

Listen to that advice. Very sound and well proven.

Good Luck.

 

[Martijn]

If you don't have Polypropylene then dilute with 6+ parts water, allow to cool and filter

Add the acid to the water, not the water to the acid!!
I first give the diluted sulphuric a boil to dissolve any base metals and clean the gold a bit more before going to AR.

 

[Soar2c]

Add the acid to the water, not the water to the acid!!
I first give the diluted sulphuric a boil to dissolve any base metals and clean the gold a bit more before going to AR.

Unfortunately I can't go to AR due to not being able to obtain Sodium Nitrate from any of the big box stores near me. I gotta figure out, if once I do a boil on the sulfuric acid to dissolve any base metals, that once I filter the black particulate matter if this dust is in fact considered nanoparticles of Gold. I'll have to take a sample to Penn State University to see they could do an analysis for me. Unless one of you know this answer already? Also, I was wondering if this isn't nanoparticle gold, and I have SMB on hand, but no nitric, couldn't I just drop out a golden particulate with SMB right in the sulfuric acid? Wouldn't this leave me with a golden powder, instead of from what I read I currently have from my original electrolysis experiment is an oxidised gold ion. Any and all help would be awesome.

 

[Soar2c]

Reconstitute sulfuric acid for cell by evaporation of filtered solution to remove added water.

Steve

Without having a chemistry background or lab ware and what I assume would be a distillation setup required here, can you possibly point me towards a link that describes a dyi process or a diy distillation setup needed to reconstitute the sulfuric acid?

 

[Soar2c]

Polypropylene filter cloth cut from sheet is the solution to your dissolved filter. Vacuum assisted filtration.

If you don't have Polypropylene then dilute with 6+ parts water, allow to cool and filter.

Steve

Any chance ya can help me with specifics of this. Such as if there's different size cloth mesh for the poly? Is this the same standard used for classification screens such as 100 mesh, 200 mesh? And ya say vacuum assisted filtration. Oddly enough I do a have here a flask with a vacuum port on it. I assume a funnel would go into top port, but having that you're suggesting vacuum assistance, that means theres some type of seal between the funnel and the flask. What is an acceptable diy way to seal the funnel and flask with vacuum port? And would I just be about to take a hose from my air compressor's intake, and connect the hose to the vacuum port? I would imagine thats probably a dumb question, but hey I don't mind asking my questions...there's a reason why it's a question I'm asking lol right?
Thanks again you all.

 

[Martijn]

Smb only works when gold is dissolved in solution. Not floating in the liquid.
Not much time to write more now.

 

[Martijn]

The gold is very fine and not an oxide. But dirty and needs dissolving.

 

[lazersteve]

Without having a chemistry background or lab ware and what I assume would be a distillation setup required here, can you possibly point me towards a link that describes a dyi process or a diy distillation setup needed to reconstitute the sulfuric acid?

No distillation only slow evaporation until white fumes appear.

Steve

 

[lazersteve]

Any chance ya can help me with specifics of this. Such as if there's different size cloth mesh for the poly? Is this the same standard used for classification screens such as 100 mesh, 200 mesh? And ya say vacuum assisted filtration. Oddly enough I do a have here a flask with a vacuum port on it. I assume a funnel would go into top port, but having that you're suggesting vacuum assistance, that means theres some type of seal between the funnel and the flask. What is an acceptable diy way to seal the funnel and flask with vacuum port? And would I just be about to take a hose from my air compressor's intake, and connect the hose to the vacuum port? I would imagine thats probably a dumb question, but hey I don't mind asking my questions...there's a reason why it's a question I'm asking lol right?
Thanks again you all.

Check duda diesels website for polypropylene filter bags. I've never worried over mesh sizes. Cut a polypropylene filter that is perfectly sized for your Buchner funnel and use water aspiratior (used to empty waterbeds) as your vacuum. Standard buchner "bung" for the seal. All basic chemistry setup.
On the cheap you can pack the neck of a wide topped automotive funnel (plastic) with fiberglass wool adjusting drip rate with water before filtering the acid. Key point is that no solids make it past the filter.

Steve

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Soar2c, you've been a member for 2 years now. You should have been studying more by now. But I'm going to try to help.

First, to filter the gold from the sulfuric acid, as Steve suggested, dilute the acid. It will be less viscous so it will filter easier. As Shark said, be sure to add the acid to the water, not the water to the acid.

As you learned, sulfuric will dissolve most filter papers (as well as your body if you get it on you). A simple solution is what is referred to as a Charmin filter, first named because you can stuff some Charmin (or other brand) toilet paper into the neck of any filter instead of using filter paper. BUT, in this case, the sulfuric acid would dissolve the toilet paper. Instead, use some fiberglass, like what is used in house insulation. The tighter you pack it into the neck of the filter, the finer particles it will capture, but it will also filter more slowly. It's a trade off. Find what works in your situation.

Don't get hung up on terminology like "nanoparticles". The gold will simply be a fine powder. That's what you want.

There is no gold dissolved in the sulfuric acid, so adding SMB won't accomplish anything. All the gold is in the fine sludge/dust. Just filter it out as directed.

To recover the acid, all you have to do is heat it to evaporate the water. But BEWARE! Sulfuric acid is hazardous. Concentrated sulfuric is very hazardous. Hot, concentrated sulfuric acid is extremely hazardous. Use extreme caution. This has been discussed many times, so do some searching and read as much as you can before attempting this.

To dissolve your gold, you can use HCl and bleach or HCl and hydrogen peroxide (H₂O₂).

These are just very brief descriptions. Search and study more if you need to.

Dave

 

[lazersteve]

Super cheap method is to allow the concentrated acid to settle for 24-48 hours and carefully (with all necessary PPE in place) Decant off the majority of the concentrated acid only. Gold will be black sludge in bottom. Dilute by adding sludge and remaining acid to 3-5x volumes of water, allow to cool and filter with normal filter setup. Process filter papers and sludge in AR as normal.

Steve

 

[Yggdrasil]

Any chance ya can help me with specifics of this. Such as if there's different size cloth mesh for the poly? Is this the same standard used for classification screens such as 100 mesh, 200 mesh? And ya say vacuum assisted filtration. Oddly enough I do a have here a flask with a vacuum port on it. I assume a funnel would go into top port, but having that you're suggesting vacuum assistance, that means theres some type of seal between the funnel and the flask. What is an acceptable diy way to seal the funnel and flask with vacuum port? And would I just be about to take a hose from my air compressor's intake, and connect the hose to the vacuum port? I would imagine thats probably a dumb question, but hey I don't mind asking my questions...there's a reason why it's a question I'm asking lol right?
Thanks again you all.

Please use proper English, there are members relying on translators, and ya and similar do not translate well.

 

[Martijn]

What i do is let the sulfuric settle, siphon or pipette off the acid to reuse, and add the powder with acid to water. Ratio 1:2 so you get battery acid strength.

Then boil it to let the gold settle and get cleaned by the ditulte sulfuric.
This also dissolves more base metal traces that are in there.

Then decant and dissolve the gold as frugal refiner said. I don't bother to rinse off any of the sulfuric from the powder at that point.

If you're done stripping, you can add all acid to water. There will always be more or less traces of gold floating around. I've even had what seemed to be colloidal gold in the wash water.

 

[Soar2c]

You can test a small amount of the dark solution with HCL for silver.

Can you explain this a little more in depth? Why do you suggest this step? Is it because you think the particulate that's not settling may be infact silver and this is why you're suggesting to test it with HCL? Is HCL hydrochloric acid? Does the HCL need to be a specific purity? What's the test you're suggesting? Please don't let my ignorance annoy you. I'm learning as much as I possibly can.

 

[Soar2c]

Please use proper English, there are members relying on translators, and ya and similar do not translate well.

Thank you for the feedback I wasn't really aware of this barrier. I'll try to keep it proper moving forward.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Can you explain this a little more in depth? Why do you suggest this step? Is it because you think the particulate that's not settling may be infact silver and this is why you're suggesting to test it with HCL? Is HCL hydrochloric acid? Does the HCL need to be a specific purity? What's the test you're suggesting? Please don't let my ignorance annoy you. I'm learning as much as I possibly can.

Because if there is Silver in solution, it will perciptate as a white fluffy precipitate.

 

[richoc]

Ok this is not that complex, if your filters are turning to goo, you did not follow the directions.
You were trying to filter the acid when it was still too strong.

After siphoning out the black sludge from the bottom of the deplating unit, make sure you put the sludge in a very large tall beaker, this is to contain the full reaction.
This is going to be a strong exothermic reaction, yes adding water to the acid, be care full, all PPE and a catch basin around the beaker.

You need to add distilled water at a 6:1 ratio, not that it needs to exactly measured it just must be this ratio or more of the water.

Let this cool down for a few hours, and it will filter just fine with 3 coffee filters and a cotton plug in a plastic funnel.

This is how this acid reaction is used to clean clogged house pipes and clean so out some other things.

I hope this clears up issues with the first filtering.