Rickthenewb
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Help with sweeps
- Thread starter Rickthenewb
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Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
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It might help to disclose the source of your "sweeps".
The top picture looks as if it is most likely alloy used in creating karat gold. It is sold in shot of various sizes, just as your picture depicts. If it is, it won't contain any gold, but it likely has silver, assuming it's not white in color. If it is, it's most likely just nickel.
Second picture appears to contain some of the alloy as well, but it also resembles silver amalgam. The picture is too fuzzy and off color to make any determinations.
The term "sweeps" is often misused. Sweeps, to some, are the filings from the work bench. To others, they are exactly what it sounds like--sweeps from the floor. They contain hair, saw blades, gold filings, fine dirt, bits of one's sandwich, and the list goes on.
If you can be more specific, you may receive some guidelines.
Harold
The top picture looks as if it is most likely alloy used in creating karat gold. It is sold in shot of various sizes, just as your picture depicts. If it is, it won't contain any gold, but it likely has silver, assuming it's not white in color. If it is, it's most likely just nickel.
Second picture appears to contain some of the alloy as well, but it also resembles silver amalgam. The picture is too fuzzy and off color to make any determinations.
The term "sweeps" is often misused. Sweeps, to some, are the filings from the work bench. To others, they are exactly what it sounds like--sweeps from the floor. They contain hair, saw blades, gold filings, fine dirt, bits of one's sandwich, and the list goes on.
If you can be more specific, you may receive some guidelines.
Harold
Rickthenewb
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I am being told it came from a jeweler, also what is the best method to separate these metals.
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Before you worry about making any separation, you should determine what you have. You may be spinning your wheels. You will be if I'm right in the assumption that you have alloying metal. It contains no values. It goes by another name----brass.Rickthenewb said:
Have you read any part of Hoke? If you haven't, please get on with doing so. You're not going to get anywhere stumbling along in the dark, and you can believe me when I tell you that if you ask too many obviously stupid questions (a sure sign you haven't done your homework) you will be largely ignored here. We are willing to help, but you must do your part. There are no magic shortcuts---you must gain an understanding.
Harold
Rick, Harold will give you the best advise, harsh but true, stick with it and you will learn to get that gold pure. welcome to the forum the best place to learn, and any member is willing to help you, but few will refine your gold for nothing, or do your home work, look again at the price of these metals and how hard they are to come by that little bit of study is well worth learning.
Rickthenewb
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ok, so I retorted the mercury from the sweeps and then I dissolved in nitric, I am getting an intense purple solution with the undissolved grit, gold and other metals on the bottom. the mud on the bottom is very difficult to clean as it keeps making more purple solution. What is this purple solution?
qst42know
Well-known member
Mercury?
Where did the mercury come from?
If you want quality answers you really should include all the facts.
Where did you buy the retort?
Where did the mercury come from?
If you want quality answers you really should include all the facts.
Where did you buy the retort?
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Lets talk about that first. Did you, indeed, recover any mercury? If so, why is it you haven't commented on the board, seeking further advice?Rickthenewb said:
Where I come from, it's called one hell of a mess. Had you been forthcoming with information, I could have saved you considerable trouble with this material. Unless you're prepared to make a full disclosure, I'm afraid you're on your own. None of us can provide answers when you refuse to provide needed information.
Harold
Rickthenewb
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I am sorry if I it looks like I am keeping information out but I thought my first post was pretty explanatory, I posted that a metal dealer in my town had some sweeps containing gold, silver, copper, platinum and mercury. I then asked some questions about retorting which were answered and helped me a lot. I even posted pictures of my sweeps along with my retort and my fume hood and the face mask cartridges I was using, then Harold pointed out that should read more on Hokes (which I did several times, and was really helpful).
So I retorted all of my sweeps and recovered a little over 7 ozs of mercury more than what was said it contained). All the sweeps were retorted for over 3 hours to ensure that the mercury was evacuated.
I then started dissolving the sweeps in nitric as it says to do in Hokes and I am now left with this purple solution with solids on the bottom, the solution is cloudy though and after further reading I am under the impression that it might be colloidal gold, its a real mess but I have been able to recover the silver out of some of it so far. When if try and clean the powder on the bottom it just keeps making more purple solution, I just want to understand what this is.
I have only dissolved about 1/3 of the sweeps so far and before I continue I thought I would see if there is another way of going about this.
Again I apologize if I have not given enough information and will gladly give you more if needed.
So I retorted all of my sweeps and recovered a little over 7 ozs of mercury more than what was said it contained). All the sweeps were retorted for over 3 hours to ensure that the mercury was evacuated.
I then started dissolving the sweeps in nitric as it says to do in Hokes and I am now left with this purple solution with solids on the bottom, the solution is cloudy though and after further reading I am under the impression that it might be colloidal gold, its a real mess but I have been able to recover the silver out of some of it so far. When if try and clean the powder on the bottom it just keeps making more purple solution, I just want to understand what this is.
I have only dissolved about 1/3 of the sweeps so far and before I continue I thought I would see if there is another way of going about this.
Again I apologize if I have not given enough information and will gladly give you more if needed.
qst42know
Well-known member
Sorry I didn't go back far enough in your post. Completly spaced on the first page. 
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Ok, if I was out of line with my comments, you have my apology. Thing is, when you've never experienced these things, it's hard to know what to do and keep out of trouble. You would have been much better served to continue to seek at least some advice, as a matter of safety. You're dealing with something that can get you in deep trouble.
It would have been wise to have contacted the board once you retorted the material, and made it clear that you have removed mercury. That confirms my hunch that the second picture was old dental amalgam. It is rarely without "contamination" by gold and platinum group metals, especially if any of the material came from traps.
Once retorted, I'm sure you must have noticed that traces of mercury remained on the surface of the retorted material. My procedure was to then incinerate the material in a large stainless (frying) pan, driving it to melting. That may seem an unreal goal, but being alloyed with tin, it melts at a reduced temperature, well below a red heat. Once molten, it would be stirred and allowed to oxidize. Removing from heat and continued stirring yields a mass of broken bits of metal, ready for further processing. Use a small diameter steel rod for stirring. Something ¼" in diameter or slgihtly larger will work fine. Don't use anything with a plastic handle---it's likely to melt. Wear a glove to protect your hand. Do not breath any of the smoke and/or fumes.
This operation is of prime importance, for it allows dissolution of the material in dilute nitric without filtration issue. The solution would come out a pale blue color, and would contain silver along with traces of copper, which are a part of dental amalgam.
The purple you are experiencing is as you suspected--it's colloidal gold, which can be recovered. The big issue now is if you can filter the material to the point where it can be separated from the dissolved silver. Without the prolonged roast, I'm not convinced you can, so you may have to resort to rinsing and allowing gravity to do the separation. Nothing wrong with that---it just creates more solution that you must deal with. Ultimately, you must end up with the solids in a filter, then they would be incinerated and screened. After that, you'd give them a boil in HCl (yes--a boil---that keeps the solids in suspension, preventing them from forming a hard cake on the bottom of your beaker), Keep the beaker covered with a watch glass. Tap water is acceptable for this operation. This solution should be valueless, but it should be tested with stannous chloride before being discarded. When you have rinsed the material to the point of the rinse water coming off clear of color, you can then dissolve the included values with AR---but very little should be used. The screening process should have separated any pieces large enough to require inquartation.
You are dealing with waste material that has great potential, and will require diligence on your part to avoid losing values. If you study Hoke, you most likely can deal with everything without assistance, but if you have any questions, post them. I processed a large amount of this type of material and had worked out the kinks that can be troublesome.
When you incinerate the recovered material from the retort, it's VERY important that you not be where you can breath any of the fumes. There will be traces of mercury present. Do this work in a fume hood. If you have no fume hood, do it on a windy day, with the wind coming from one side or the other---not from your back. That has the potential to curl the vapors and smoke towards you.
Luck!
Harold
It would have been wise to have contacted the board once you retorted the material, and made it clear that you have removed mercury. That confirms my hunch that the second picture was old dental amalgam. It is rarely without "contamination" by gold and platinum group metals, especially if any of the material came from traps.
Once retorted, I'm sure you must have noticed that traces of mercury remained on the surface of the retorted material. My procedure was to then incinerate the material in a large stainless (frying) pan, driving it to melting. That may seem an unreal goal, but being alloyed with tin, it melts at a reduced temperature, well below a red heat. Once molten, it would be stirred and allowed to oxidize. Removing from heat and continued stirring yields a mass of broken bits of metal, ready for further processing. Use a small diameter steel rod for stirring. Something ¼" in diameter or slgihtly larger will work fine. Don't use anything with a plastic handle---it's likely to melt. Wear a glove to protect your hand. Do not breath any of the smoke and/or fumes.
This operation is of prime importance, for it allows dissolution of the material in dilute nitric without filtration issue. The solution would come out a pale blue color, and would contain silver along with traces of copper, which are a part of dental amalgam.
The purple you are experiencing is as you suspected--it's colloidal gold, which can be recovered. The big issue now is if you can filter the material to the point where it can be separated from the dissolved silver. Without the prolonged roast, I'm not convinced you can, so you may have to resort to rinsing and allowing gravity to do the separation. Nothing wrong with that---it just creates more solution that you must deal with. Ultimately, you must end up with the solids in a filter, then they would be incinerated and screened. After that, you'd give them a boil in HCl (yes--a boil---that keeps the solids in suspension, preventing them from forming a hard cake on the bottom of your beaker), Keep the beaker covered with a watch glass. Tap water is acceptable for this operation. This solution should be valueless, but it should be tested with stannous chloride before being discarded. When you have rinsed the material to the point of the rinse water coming off clear of color, you can then dissolve the included values with AR---but very little should be used. The screening process should have separated any pieces large enough to require inquartation.
You are dealing with waste material that has great potential, and will require diligence on your part to avoid losing values. If you study Hoke, you most likely can deal with everything without assistance, but if you have any questions, post them. I processed a large amount of this type of material and had worked out the kinks that can be troublesome.
When you incinerate the recovered material from the retort, it's VERY important that you not be where you can breath any of the fumes. There will be traces of mercury present. Do this work in a fume hood. If you have no fume hood, do it on a windy day, with the wind coming from one side or the other---not from your back. That has the potential to curl the vapors and smoke towards you.
Luck!
Harold
Rickthenewb
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Its been a while on my last post, this sweeps job turned out to be way more then what I was originally told, it had almost 10 times more mercury than I was told as well as a ton of nickel. Very little gold and some silver. I decided to return it to my metals dealer and focus more on the non mercury scrap. Thank you guys for the help you offered, I am sure I will have more fun projects to discuss soon.
