how to build an acid resistant hood & scrubber _hood_

[Emil]

4metals,

Thanks for the help. I am approaching the collecting of escrap, anything plated, karat gold as a hobby. I would only sell the gold to buy more gold.
In this way I will learn to refine. My mistakes will be small. No hurry.

My problem is the fan. Before your scrubber posts I was going to use a PVC Y fitting and use a metal inline fan with a cfm of 300 for a 2.5sqft opening. No scrubber. Using the fan through a y fitting would protect the fan from fumes since it would not be between the hood and open air. Then along came the plans for a scrubber.

An $880 fan is much to expensive for a small operation. I was hoping that a scrubber would purify it's output air enough so that the fan placed above the scrubber would not corrode the fan. The scrubber is an absolute necessity but not at such a high price. Back to the drawing board.

Frank, think small until your wise enough to think big. good luck.

Emil

 

[4metals]

You can always do what an old Russian chemist told me 30 years ago about air pollution. Always refine at night with plenty of wind!

 

[Emil]

An old Russian and an old American think alike. At last DETENTE.

 

[4metals]

Emil,

I've never had to design a scrubber without an in line blower. Your point of the expense for a hobby interest is completely understandable. The resistance of the tower packing in the scrubber is overcome by a blower which can draw enough suction (usually measured in inches of water column). Possibly a combination of a less restrictive packing and a strong blower using the wye configuration to keep it out of the air path may work. I know it works for just a hood, it would require a separate blower for powering just the scrubber.

I'm sure if it's do able there are guys on this forum who can rig it to work.

 

[Emil]

4metals,

Thanks for your concerns. A Y system with an inline fan pushes the air through and out into open air. In the process it sucks the air from the Fume Hood up and out to open air. Could this be done through the scubber, if necessary using a larger sized variable speed fan reduced to 4" pipe?

A 4" pipe from the top of the hood down to the bottom of the scrubber, 4" out the top of the scrubber into the bottom of the y out the top of the y to open air. The fan attached to the remaining opening of the y sucking air from the room and not being corroded.

How well do you think it wood work. what are the negatives.

Emil

 

[4metals]

Do you mean like this drawing? I would guess it can work, for a small operation you can downsize it for one, inch and a half inlet. The hood would have to be exhausted separately using a similar arrangement.

 

[Emil]

4metals,

If the scrubber is exhausting the fumes why would I need a second system?

Emil

 

[4metals]

When you open the bottles of acid and fumes leak out, when you open the top of the vessel that is reacting and fumes leak out, I guess you could call it insurance, it is a minor amount but you wouldn't want your face in it either.

 

[Emil]

Thanks 4metals for your time and effort working this problem through for me. I think it will work and I will give it a try. The only question left is the ratio of Sodium Hydroxide to water to a PH above 10. I'll work that with trial and error.

You have been a great help to me and others on this forum solving our problems and I will add very patient.

Thanks,
Emil

 

[qst42know]

This new air syphon arrangement looks like a job for my garage sale electric leaf blower. They are a bit on the noisy side but I had been considering the spare one I have for a while. :wink: I think I paid a whole $2 for it.

Still the biggest problem is how to isolate a work space in the garage so I don't have to find new homes for my metal tools and things.

Rust sucks. :evil:

What I could really use is an out building like Noxx has.

Great work shop by the way.

P.S. Using this syphon type exhaust, It wouldn't surprise me if you needed a much larger diameter stack.

 

[Frankk12]

If you look at this picture you will see 2 scrubbers
I am not sure but I am guessing that the fumes go through scrubber 1 and then it goes through scrubber 2

 

[AKDan]

Actually looks like there may be more than just the two visable ones, since they are label #1 and #3.

 

[Frankk12]

http://www.unitedpmr.com/our_process.php
here is another picture of a scrubber and a refining system
would anybody like to make a comment

 

[dick b]

Frankk 12:

I'm interested to know just how large a refining operation you are trying to build. Just how many troy ounces of gold do you want to be able to refine in a day?

What I see you posting and seem interested in certainly is beyond the interest of a hobby refiner.

If you are interested in starting a business to refine commercially, then what your looking at is appropriate. If you just want to start out as a hobby, then you need to scale down you ideas on what you need to get started.

I'm not trying to put your ideas down, but you seem to me to be trying to think too big.

 

[Frankk12]

Hi dick b
How are you
I have been in the jewelry business for a long time
I have done refining for about 4 times out doors
For the moment I cant do any practicing because I don't have the place for it
I will rent a place in about 1 month
That is why I need to improve my refining skills.
I know what that I don't have much in refining skills but I think I can do it

I don't exactly know how much I would like to refine
That depends on how good i will do this and some other factors
Also if I will be able to compete with the big boys
That is a factor I have to think carefully about
For example there is JM
But for them 1 kilo is not enough of a quantity to refine

So if I can refine 1 kilo a day that would be a good start
If I can increase that capacity to a few kilos that would even be better

 

[Oz]

Frankk12,

A kilo a day or roughly 32 troy ounces is far from hobby. Just a thought, 32 troy ounces at $900 is $28,800.00. If you can make 5% after expenses you have a net income of $1,440 per day or $375,000.00 a year, a nice income.

Do you already have a client base that will supply that quantity of scrap?

 

[Frankk12]

Hi Oz
I do have a lot of contacts

Like any other business
they have to see some advantage in giving you the job

 

[dick b]

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Frankk12:

This link in by pawnbroker bob in this thread. Take a look at it and I think that is where you need to start to learn the refining processes.
A 4' fume hood like 4metals pictured would get you up an running, and as your skills and supply of scrap improved, you can expand it and keep going.
I think what you envision is a worthy goal, very do able.
Getting the licenses, insurance and permits in going to be a major undertaking though. I'm not familiar with CA laws but I expect you will find similar rules and regulations to the EPA here in the USA
Noxx is trying to do that right now and he has Chemistry skills.
I've been studing this forum for a year now and I don't feel my skills are anywhere near good enough to attempt what you want to do.
What I'm trying to say is you have to learn to crawl before you sign up for a marathon.
I wish you good fortune in your persuit!
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[qst42know]

For the big operation you are proposing security should be an even bigger consideration.

If you are taking possession of someones material on consignment, my opinion is they would be more impressed with a big security system and a small lab, than the other way around.

A ten pound security system and a ten ounce lab may be more cost effective to start with. The lab can be scaled up as needed based on your clientele's needs.

Just my hobby refiners opinion.

Any of the professionals here have any advice on security?

 

[Frankk12]

Hi People
You know something
This idea is already making me sick
I am going to try doing this as a hobby
Thanks