i give up ( and im usually not a quitter)

[jeneje]

I would offer to send you some already made, but doing that is not helping you to understand the need for it. I don't why you can not make your stannous but Pete you have to slow down and take a break for awhile, what i mean is clear your mind, drink a cup of coffee and then start over with the process and BAM you have it - anotherwards you are trying to hard. Relax and do as lazersteve and others have advised you too and you will master the stannous thing.
Ken
:mrgreen:

i totally get where your coming from jeneje , and 9 times out of 10 that works for me too.
but in this case , it took me a week from start to finnish , just taking my time with the who process . and then yesterday i took an hour ( yes and hour ) to make the stannous ...... i had notes with me so i didnt forget or leave anything out . i hammered flat 4 new pieces of tin granuals , i wieghd them and the stannous crystals and meashured the hcl .
i even got the right colour , i was told many times it should be a milky white colour and thats exactly what i got. im so impressed with the way it looks that im doubting i have it wrong.
which then throws doubt back to my AR . but its not possible that there is no gold . there was soooooooooooooo much foils going into the AR , and i never spilled any or let it boil , it evaporated so slowly , took 3 days just to evaporate.
thats the one thing i too the most time with , if there is any nitric in there then i dont know how , i evaporated it down so far that there was only about 20 mls in the coffee pot . i repeated that 3 times and i no longer got any reaction when adding hcl . i even tried adding some more sulfuric and still ot no reaction

Pete, the only thing i can i say is - if you made the stannous right (it sounds like you have) and you have a gold standard to compare the results against and it shows negative then there is no gold there. Where it went i'm not sure, maybe someone else can shed some insite on it for you.

When processing foils it is best to use HCL/CL to dislove them. Then all you have to do is wait for the clorine to evaporate from the solution before dropping.

As far as testing with free nitric in solution i do that all the time and my test will show positive if the gold is there.

I wish you the best but truly i don't have a clue where your gold went. I hate to hear anybody losing there gold - it is so hard to come by now days.
Ken

 

[qst42know]

first i soak gold pins and curcuit boards in nitric acid.

I suspect stannous isn't the problem, I believe your problem is in processing whole boards. Tin nitrate carried through your processing that was not washed away with water could create colloidal gold. Colloidal gold doesn't settle, doesn't precipitate, and isn't detected with stannous.

Stannous isn't very fussy, I have made working stannous from solder, pewter and tin shot. And a gold solution to prove it works from scratch test streak from a wedding ring on a test stone. It is far better to make it correctly in a standard accurate way but it has a broad tolerance it will function in.

Whole boards are just full of trouble.

 

[goldpete]

I would offer to send you some already made, but doing that is not helping you to understand the need for it. I don't why you can not make your stannous but Pete you have to slow down and take a break for awhile, what i mean is clear your mind, drink a cup of coffee and then start over with the process and BAM you have it - anotherwards you are trying to hard. Relax and do as lazersteve and others have advised you too and you will master the stannous thing.
Ken
:mrgreen:

i totally get where your coming from jeneje , and 9 times out of 10 that works for me too.
but in this case , it took me a week from start to finnish , just taking my time with the who process . and then yesterday i took an hour ( yes and hour ) to make the stannous ...... i had notes with me so i didnt forget or leave anything out . i hammered flat 4 new pieces of tin granuals , i wieghd them and the stannous crystals and meashured the hcl .
i even got the right colour , i was told many times it should be a milky white colour and thats exactly what i got. im so impressed with the way it looks that im doubting i have it wrong.
which then throws doubt back to my AR . but its not possible that there is no gold . there was soooooooooooooo much foils going into the AR , and i never spilled any or let it boil , it evaporated so slowly , took 3 days just to evaporate.
thats the one thing i too the most time with , if there is any nitric in there then i dont know how , i evaporated it down so far that there was only about 20 mls in the coffee pot . i repeated that 3 times and i no longer got any reaction when adding hcl . i even tried adding some more sulfuric and still ot no reaction

Pete, the only thing i can i say is - if you made the stannous right (it sounds like you have) and you have a gold standard to compare the results against and it shows negative then there is no gold there. Where it went i'm not sure, maybe someone else can shed some insite on it for you.

When processing foils it is best to use HCL/CL to dislove them. Then all you have to do is wait for the clorine to evaporate from the solution before dropping.

As far as testing with free nitric in solution i do that all the time and my test will show positive if the gold is there.

I wish you the best but truly i don't have a clue where your gold went. I hate to hear anybody losing there gold - it is so hard to come by now days.
Ken

thankyou jeneje . i went and bought some bleach to use instead of nitric , is that ok or did it have to be chlorine ?

 

[ericrm]

finaly...
the chlorine will be produce by the chemical reaction of bleach(i cant go in detail i dont know them)

edit ... vive google... NaClO + 2HCl = Cl2 + NaCl +H2O

 

[goldpete]

finaly...
the chlorine will be produce by the chemical reaction of bleach(i cant go in detail i dont know them)

edit ... vive google... NaClO + 2HCl = Cl2 + NaCl +H2O

so its ok for me to use bleach ? and do i still put one part bleach just as if it were nitric ?

 

[Geo]

if im dissolving foils or powder, i add only enough hcl to cover the material and then add bleach 10-15 ml's at a time and stir each time. you can add bleach until all the foil or powder is dissolved. by just leaving it open and undisturbed, the chlorine will evaporate out of solution by itself. you can warm it until it steams to drive the chlorine out of solution faster.

 

[goldpete]

if im dissolving foils or powder, i add only enough hcl to cover the material and then add bleach 10-15 ml's at a time and stir each time. you can add bleach until all the foil or powder is dissolved. by just leaving it open and undisturbed, the chlorine will evaporate out of solution by itself. you can warm it until it steams to drive the chlorine out of solution faster.

that sounds really good thanks , ill definately be doing that from now on instead of using nitric.
thankyou for your advice geo.

i have just posted a new subject asking how to prepare a piece of gold to make some solution to use for testing my stannous.
id be most greatful if you could take a look and give me your suggestions

 

[patnor1011]

first i soak gold pins and curcuit boards in nitric acid.

I suspect stannous isn't the problem, I believe your problem is in processing whole boards. Tin nitrate carried through your processing that was not washed away with water could create colloidal gold. Colloidal gold doesn't settle, doesn't precipitate, and isn't detected with stannous.

Stannous isn't very fussy, I have made working stannous from solder, pewter and tin shot. And a gold solution to prove it works from scratch test streak from a wedding ring on a test stone. It is far better to make it correctly in a standard accurate way but it has a broad tolerance it will function in.

Whole boards are just full of trouble.

Pete here is your answer. Also if any gold get dissolved it will readily precipitate on any metal on boards which was not dissolved. And that may be another thing why your stannous do not detect gold in solution.

 

[goldpete]

first i soak gold pins and curcuit boards in nitric acid.

I suspect stannous isn't the problem, I believe your problem is in processing whole boards. Tin nitrate carried through your processing that was not washed away with water could create colloidal gold. Colloidal gold doesn't settle, doesn't precipitate, and isn't detected with stannous.

Stannous isn't very fussy, I have made working stannous from solder, pewter and tin shot. And a gold solution to prove it works from scratch test streak from a wedding ring on a test stone. It is far better to make it correctly in a standard accurate way but it has a broad tolerance it will function in.

Whole boards are just full of trouble.

Pete here is your answer. Also if any gold get dissolved it will readily precipitate on any metal on boards which was not dissolved. And that may be another thing why your stannous do not detect gold in solution.

ok , i saw in a different post that AP is a really good thing to use for electronic scrap.
should i use AP and how do i use it ?
does it get used instead of AR , after a niric soak . or instead of a nitric soak and prior to AR
the peroxide i can lay my hands on is 12%

 

[patnor1011]

Pete from your questions it is very clear that you did not read Hoke`s book, you did not studied forum Basic Guide. You are asking questions which you can answer yourself if you put minimum effort to try to learn or understand.
If you do not stop for a while and put some effort in learning you will find that less and less people will react on your posts. While we try to help we cant hold your hand if you do not understand basics, if you do not know what you do.

 

[patnor1011]

This thread is named "I give up" - believe me you did not even started, you jumped in the middle and got lost. Why don't you start from Start?

*edited - links

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2815953/Refining-Precious-Metal-Wastes-C-M-Hoke

 

[goldpete]

Pete from your questions it is very clear that you did not read Hoke`s book, you did not studied forum Basic Guide. You are asking questions which you can answer yourself if you put minimum effort to try to learn or understand.
If you do not stop for a while and put some effort in learning you will find that less and less people will react on your posts. While we try to help we cant hold your hand if you do not understand basics, if you do not know what you do.

i have read the book , atleast 5 times

 

[goldpete]

This thread is named "I give up" - believe me you did not even started, you jumped in the middle and got lost. Why don't you start from Start?

*edited - links

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2815953/Refining-Precious-Metal-Wastes-C-M-Hoke

i thought i was starting at the beginning

 

[patnor1011]

Forget Nitric soak. In electronics you will encounter many different materials with gold plating. Every type do have recommended procedure. In your case trying to process whole boards is tricky one. I do not believe that processing boards at home can be profitable, so in order to reduce costs you will have to go with cheap and reusable method. That is AP. There are many many threads regarding use of AP.

 

[patnor1011]

AP can be reused so it will save you on costs. Straight Nitric is not good on boards or pins if you do not have experience it complicate recovery by putting tin in solution.

 

[goldpete]

AP can be reused so it will save you on costs. Straight Nitric is not good on boards or pins if you do not have experience it complicate recovery by putting tin in solution.

i do strip as much off the boards as i can . i try to put bare boards in the nitric

 

[patnor1011]

AP can be reused so it will save you on costs. Straight Nitric is not good on boards or pins if you do not have experience it complicate recovery by putting tin in solution.

i do strip as much off the boards as i can . i try to put bare boards in the nitric

Why?

 

[goldpete]

AP can be reused so it will save you on costs. Straight Nitric is not good on boards or pins if you do not have experience it complicate recovery by putting tin in solution.

i do strip as much off the boards as i can . i try to put bare boards in the nitric

Why?

to avoid contaminating with too much base metals

 

[patnor1011]

You may be confused regarding values. You talk about boards. What do you want to recover from not populated boards. Do you talk about boards or fingers?
Boards plating (if any) is super thin. It will go off board in form of powder. How much do your nitric cost? How much do your waste disposition cost? You will still have tin in solution no matter how much do you scrape out. Maybe if you treat board in hot HCl before AR or Nitric then you might eliminate most of tin but question is - does amount of flash plating warrant cost of acid, chemicals and time spent trying to recover it?

Can you upload pictures of board you are talking about?

 

[goldpete]

You may be confused regarding values. You talk about boards. What do you want to recover from not populated boards. Do you talk about boards or fingers?
Boards plating (if any) is super thin. It will go off board in form of powder. How much do your nitric cost? How much do your waste disposition cost? You will still have tin in solution no matter how much do you scrape out. Maybe if you treat board in hot HCl before AR or Nitric then you might eliminate most of tin but question is - does amount of flash plating warrant cost of acid, chemicals and time spent trying to recover it?

Can you upload pictures of board you are talking about?

ok im going out on a limb here and ill probably get a negative response , but please try and see my point .
im as broke as someone can possibly be . computer parts and cell phones cost me nothing , and acid is relatively cheap .
ive tried everything to make ends meet , i cant work , im dissabled . and i have to do something about getting some money soon . this is my only hope.
im not a clever guy , i was useless at school , so alot of what im reading is over my head , but im trying , i really am.
im not after sympathy , i know everyone has sob stories .
i just need help .
im doing the best i can and im really trying to learn and to understand whats right and how to make this work