Electrochemistry Inexspensive conductive coatings

[rusty]

I'm looking for suggestions for inexpensive conductive coatings that will accept copper onto a non conductive material that will become the starting sheet for my copper cell. Thanks all.
.

 

[samuel-a]

That's a long shot....

But, maybe you can use a standart graphite pencil to cover you non conductive sheet.
Though, i don't know how much would it hold as it gains wight from the deposited metal...

Maybe there is a shelf product that i don't know of... but who know how will it hold in acidic environment.


May i ask...
What's wrong with SS or copper sheets as starters?

 

[qst42know]

If I remember the reading on the subject, copper on copper is the way to go.

I'm reasonably certain this was from a copper sulfate electrolyte. You're working with something different?

 

[publius]

From an old Popular Mechanic encyclopedia, the bronzing of baby shoes requires that a light coat of paraffin dusted with lamp black (carbon dust) be applied then the shoes would take the bronze plate.

 

[Harold_V]

Prior to starting my own machine shop, the last job I held was at United Precision, in Salt Lake City. Kennecott Copper, one of the largest copper producers in the world, has a pit in Bingham Canyon, with a smelter and refining facility at the south end of The Great Salt Lake.

Yeah, so what, you say?

Well, I'm leading up to something here, so bear with me.

My memory is not good at this point, but I recall we made some starter sheets for the copper refinery. They were made of titanium. I'm not privy to any of the technical information, but from the sheets we made, I got the distinct impression that copper doesn't adhere doggedly to the sheet. When it has plated to the prescribed thickness, it is simply pulled from the sheet. Armed with that idea, it might make sense to use a sheet that is slightly tapered on the sides to facilitate removal of the copper. At any rate, one should ensure that the plating can't key to the sheet.

For the record, the titanium used was 1/16" thick. I know that because still have a small piece that I use for cleaning files.

Harold

 

[Dr. Poe]

Harold_V is absolutely right, but I should add that the titanium plates are first fire/heat treated to form the titanium nitride yellow coating on the surface. When the thickness of copper (or gold for some) is sufficient, the electrodes are rinsed then flexed to pop off the new electrode of copper. My thanks to Publius, for reminding me of the paraffin coating for bronzing baby shoes. Dr. Poe

 

[publius]

Thank you, Dr, Poe. If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants. I am struggling to contribute here.

Robert

 

[rusty]

Thank you gentleman your suggestion of using titanium that has been subjected fire/heat treating to form the titanium nitride has by far exceeded what I had hoped for in my original plea for help. I shall now consider the problem solved.

 

[Geraldo]

Industrially, copper is electro-won using lead-calcium-tin anodes and stainless steel cathodes. For ultra-high purity copper production, it may be electro-refined using high purity copper starter sheets as cathodes.

The last time I was at KUCC was in 2006, and they were using stainless steel cathodes. Everyone experiments with titanium and other exotic cathode materials, but the reality is that when you have 20,000 or 50,000 cathodes, you simply cannot afford titanium. A good commercial grade of stainless (I pick 316L) in a well-maintained cell (no shorts, good current distribution) will last probably 5-7 years. It is also available for every home-based user.

For home use you would have a difficult time with lead-calcium-tin, as it is impossible to make without some high tech equipment. The calcium is actually mechanically alloyed, and the sheets are cold-rolled. Calcium doesn't dissolve in lead, and in a melt the calcium just scavenges oxygen and becomes nasty calcium oxide inclusions that make the sheet brittle. I would suggest lead-1% tin - 0.4% silver. Commercial copper operations avoid silver alloyed anodes because they are so expensive - again, having 20,000 large silver-containing sheets in working inventory makes for an ugly cash flow situation for them, although the zinc refiners all do it...Anyway, for a home user with only 1 small anode, that little bit of silver won't break the bank.

For "cheap conductive coating" - you are out of luck. Electroplaters typically use either a copper powder dispersed in latex, or silver powder dispersed in latex. These coatings last long enough to plate whatever decorative coating is going on top, but this will never survive long immersion (like in a cell). They are very, very expensive (think 100's of dollars for a few ounces). Graphite or better, graphene dispersed in epoxy can also work, and is a little more durable, but difficult to get right. It might require sanding to expose sufficient conductive carbon. It is also expensive.

Paraffin dusted with lamp black (graphite) isn't even slightly durable, nor does it last more than a few minutes when immersed. It is meant to provide a conductive surface for a quick coating of copper, which is then bronzed. You can literally peel the coating on baby shoes off with your fingernail if you find one of the seams.

Best Regards, Gerald

 

[NoIdea]

Morning all - I have mentioned this in a previous post, somewhere, coating the object with shelack/meths solution, let dry, then with a spray bottle gently spray the object with a water/meths/silver nitrate solution, let dry, expose object to hydrogen sulphide which results in a conductive layer of silver sulphide. This allowed me to coat leaves, bugs, and one or two other non-conducting items.

Just another way to skin a cat :shock: :lol:

Regards

Deano

 

[Geo]

Morning all - I have mentioned this in a previous post, somewhere, coating the object with shelack/meths solution, let dry, then with a spray bottle gently spray the object with a water/meths/silver nitrate solution, let dry, expose object to hydrogen sulphide which results in a conductive layer of silver sulphide. This allowed me to coat leaves, bugs, and one or two other non-conducting items.

Just another way to skin a cat :shock: :lol:

Regards

Deano

DEANO!!! long time no hear. where have you been buddy? hope everything is good.

 

[NoIdea]

Hi Geo - Yup all good, it's mid summer here, so im out side in the sun tanning up very well.

Need to get my A into G and get some values ready to sell, made my first cuple, and am ready to give it a go, scarry suff

Hows tricks witH you?

 

[Geo]

exact opposite, mid winter here.trying to hibernate as much as possible and stay warm. scouting new sources for resources, if you know what i mean. good to see you back on the forum. i was really begining to worry about you.

 

[philddreamer]

That's right, it's summer down yonder! 8)

Well, enjoy basking in the sun; up here in Seattle, WA. this time of the year our skin is brown, too... but its not a tan, its rust, from all the rain! :lol:

Take care!

Phil

 

[samuel-a]

I'm looking for suggestions for inexpensive conductive coatings that will accept copper onto a non conductive material that will become the starting sheet for my copper cell. Thanks all.
.

Maybe worth a shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz4YMFbVbyM