iron ore containing rhodium and palladium

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I'd try to alloy it with a metal get something that isn't rock then try the xrf, no idea if rhodium dissolves in other metals but it probably does as most do.
 
andu said:
I'd try to alloy it with a metal get something that isn't rock then try the xrf, no idea if rhodium dissolves in other metals but it probably does as most do.
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Copper is the most used collector metal. Gold is the best for collecting Rhodium, but the price makes it impractical.
 
andu said:
I'd try to alloy it with a metal get something that isn't rock then try the xrf, no idea if rhodium dissolves in other metals but it probably does as most do.
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With melting point nearly 2000 °C, rhodium does not like to be dissolved that much as other metals do. Speaking about sane temperatures.

But there are exceptions. As it was said, for content don´t exceeding 10-20%, even copper is OK, but this isn´t usually done in practice, as copper is harder to strip from PGMs afterwards.
Nickel is commonly used, but we are speaking about temps 1500+°C. Lead is bad collector for Rh, but bismuth can do some job for you, even below 1000 °C. It has nice feature that it can be cupelled - to some point of course, as PGMs have high mp´s, so they freeze the alloy before it can be cupelled to completion.

There is also aluminium, but this is not usable as collector in majority of instances.
Also, XRF´s can have problems analyzing unusual Rh alloys. I have experience that on some occasions, Rh and Cu were misinterpreted (both present, but ratio badly skewed from real). Also, bismuth tend to do the same with PGMs in general. Measured on OLYMPUS machines.
 
I'd look on solubility of the metal you want with different metals, a devil forge can reach up to 1600 if we are serious but you'll need some thick gear and be fast or it will melt.
You can also use other metals like perhaps gallium or lithium to lower melting point.
 
killachong said:
I recently thought i found gold, i had it XRF scanned and it returned 80-90% Fe and 10-20% Rh (avg from 5 rocks) it also had a very small amount of palladium. I did not know what RH was so i aid damn and took my rocks home, then a dy later i read how valuable Rh is and what Rh is. And i remembered the scans, i did not trust the scans to be done by the same person, and knowing the mind can trick itself i had the scans done a 2nd time on same rocks. so i schedules scans for a different person and he got the same results.

i have more of these rocks many more almost identical to the ones i had tested....my problem is i can find anyone who will process the ore. But i have double verified by XRF scanner good amounts of Rh. one of the rocks weight 20 pounds alone. so if it has 10%...2 lbs, thats half a million dollars right? So here i am sitting on possibly millions, and i cant get it out of the rock?? Ive called several so called noble metal refineries, none will/can do it.
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orvi said:
With melting point nearly 2000 °C, rhodium does not like to be dissolved that much as other metals do. Speaking about sane temperatures.

But there are exceptions. As it was said, for content don´t exceeding 10-20%, even copper is OK, but this isn´t usually done in practice, as copper is harder to strip from PGMs afterwards.
Nickel is commonly used, but we are speaking about temps 1500+°C. Lead is bad collector for Rh, but bismuth can do some job for you, even below 1000 °C. It has nice feature that it can be cupelled - to some point of course, as PGMs have high mp´s, so they freeze the alloy before it can be cupelled to completion.

There is also aluminium, but this is not usable as collector in majority of instances.
Also, XRF´s can have problems analyzing unusual Rh alloys. I have experience that on some occasions, Rh and Cu were misinterpreted (both present, but ratio badly skewed from real). Also, bismuth tend to do the same with PGMs in general. Measured on OLYMPUS machines.
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Hi there! Quick question, are you saying that Rh can be mistaken for aluminum with an XRF? I have a handmade horse figure that reads for rhodium and ruthenium, also other things. I sent it out for an assay and they sent it back saying it was aluminum. The whole transaction felt a little "off" and I wasn't all the way comfortable. Do you think their XRF could've been wrong? Here's a pic of the reading that was taken prior to sending it out. Thanks for any input.... I'm very new and learning, so thanks for bearing with me🙂
 

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AboutFaceWest said:
Hi there! Quick question, are you saying that Rh can be mistaken for aluminum with an XRF? I have a handmade horse figure that reads for rhodium and ruthenium, also other things. I sent it out for an assay and they sent it back saying it was aluminum. The whole transaction felt a little "off" and I wasn't all the way comfortable. Do you think their XRF could've been wrong? Here's a pic of the reading that was taken prior to sending it out. Thanks for any input.... I'm very new and learning, so thanks for bearing with me🙂
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I’m not too versed in the art of XRFs.
But do you have a picture and weight of the horse?
How was it hand made?
Rh and Ru are among the rarest and hard to melt metals in the world.
They are also very hard and strong so they are hard to form.
So to have a horse figure from these metals seems odd at best.
It can be plated with Rhodium which is easy and fairly common and this is what the XRF will pick up.
At least that is my guess.
 
Yggdrasil said:
I’m not too versed in the art of XRFs.
But do you have a picture and weight of the horse?
How was it hand made?
Rh and Ru are among the rarest and hard to melt metals in the world.
They are also very hard and strong so they are hard to form.
So to have a horse figure from these metals seems odd at best.
It can be plated with Rhodium which is easy and fairly common and this is what the XRF will pick up.
At least that is my guess.
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Here's one shot of the horse. It looks to be cast and finished by hand? It was an estate sale find and so this was guess by the jeweler it was brought to, based on the info we were told... Which was probably a best guess as well. If it is rhodium plated, is it possible to separate it from the horse? And what of the ruthenium content? Any ideas? I have a smaller horse as well and will include a photo of that too, it also had rhodium content, but I do not have a pic of that. Thanks for your input! I'm very grateful for any ideas, as we're kinda at a loss over here!
 

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AboutFaceWest said:
View attachment 57239
Here's one shot of the horse. It looks to be cast and finished by hand? It was an estate sale find and so this was guess by the jeweler it was brought to, based on the info we were told... Which was probably a best guess as well. If it is rhodium plated, is it possible to separate it from the horse? And what of the ruthenium content? Any ideas? I have a smaller horse as well and will include a photo of that too, it also had rhodium content, but I do not have a pic of that. Thanks for your input! I'm very grateful for any ideas, as we're kinda at a loss over here!
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These are cast items as far as I can see and nobody cast items like this in Rh and Ru, so plated Al makes sense.
Even if you get the plating off, it might be micrograms or a couple of milligrams at best.
I'm not sure it is worth the effort.
 
My best guess, since you say that an assay came back as aluminum, is the XRF device was loaded only with a jewelers metals library, also known as a precious metals library, which does not normally contain aluminum. The XRF then offered its best guess based on the library loaded. Rh and Ru.

An XRF device is only as good as the library loaded on the device and the expertise of the operator.

Several in depth discussions have occurred over the past few year on this forum. A search should help find several of those.

Time for more coffee.
 
AboutFaceWest said:
View attachment 57239
Here's one shot of the horse. It looks to be cast and finished by hand? It was an estate sale find and so this was guess by the jeweler it was brought to, based on the info we were told... Which was probably a best guess as well. If it is rhodium plated, is it possible to separate it from the horse? And what of the ruthenium content? Any ideas? I have a smaller horse as well and will include a photo of that too, it also had rhodium content, but I do not have a pic of that. Thanks for your input! I'm very grateful for any ideas, as we're kinda at a loss over here!
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Jewellery shops have commonly very well callibrated XRF machines, but only for common precious metals alloys like karat, sterling or platinum alloys. Normal regular XRF also has common alloy mode, sometimes it is named AloyPlus or something like this. If some strange item is giving unbelievable results like Ru/Rh/Os/Ir/Pt/Pd etc... Then tell the operator to change the setting and library to common alloys (this is used to measure composition of aluminium alloys, steel, stainless, brass etc..) and shot it again.

I know, trying to persuade owner to do you a favor can be tricky :D but otherwise it stays as just another number, not reliable enough in any way.
 
orvi said:
Jewellery shops have commonly very well callibrated XRF machines, but only for common precious metals alloys like karat, sterling or platinum alloys. Normal regular XRF also has common alloy mode, sometimes it is named AloyPlus or something like this. If some strange item is giving unbelievable results like Ru/Rh/Os/Ir/Pt/Pd etc... Then tell the operator to change the setting and library to common alloys (this is used to measure composition of aluminium alloys, steel, stainless, brass etc..) and shot it again.

I know, trying to persuade owner to do you a favor can be tricky :D but otherwise it stays as just another number, not reliable enough in any way.
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Thank you so much for this advice, it will be put to use🙂
 
galenrog said:
My best guess, since you say that an assay came back as aluminum, is the XRF device was loaded only with a jewelers metals library, also known as a precious metals library, which does not normally contain aluminum. The XRF then offered its best guess based on the library loaded. Rh and Ru.

An XRF device is only as good as the library loaded on the device and the expertise of the operator.

Several in depth discussions have occurred over the past few year on this forum. A search should help find several of those.

Time for more coffee.
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Thank you for the insight. Note taken😉
 
good morning friends, who can make me a reliable Nis analysis, I have residues from past platinum refining product that still contains PGM, but I need to establish its total content.
 

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