Jewelers filings and clippings

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The green may be from an iron chloride in solution, iron in solution can give several colors green, brown, yellow, or even a rusty color, it can resemble gold or platinum in solution, iron in solution can be tested for, with ammonium ( or potassium) thiocyanate, giving a blood red color to the reaction, another test for iron is using potassium ferro-cyanide giving a blue color in that reaction.

Details of these tests can be found in Hoke's book page 100.
 
Butcher, I have both chemicals and did not even think to use them to test for iron. Thanks for the tip.


Harold_V said:
For exceptions, such as when a customer submitted a platinum object, if they could reuse the platinum, it would be pickled until it fell apart.

Can you describe the process you used for "pickling" the platinum object?


Harold_V said:
In regards to silver, most of my customers weren't all that concerned (unless they were silversmiths), but I had a policy of returning silver, based on percentage.

Harold, do you remember what percentage was used? I am going to process the silver via silver chloride, lye and sugar, then offer my customer his silver back.

There are probably about 2.5 ounces in these last two batches. This will also provide some accounting with respect to the amount of gold recovered from both batches.

We are using 20% as the refining fee, so I'll just keep 20% of the silver then offer the customer the rest.


Harold_V said:
What makes the most sense is that you don't spend time chasing traces of values, yet when the time comes to recover, you're rewarded very handsomely.

Harold

I was actually evaporating a solution with trace amounts to get at the PGMs and it dawned on me that this was a waste of energy and time.

I got out a clean 5 gallon bucket made of HDPE and dumped the solution into the bucket then added a tablespoon of iron filings.

From now on I am going for the "stock pot" retirement plan and plan to add all my gold refining wastes to catch any PMs.

I just wonder how much I have thrown away by committing it straight to waste treatment. Putting it all in the stock pot makes so much more sense!

I was alway vague about the function of the stock pot - now that I am seeing more and more trace amounts of PGMs by refining wastes that contain them, the function of the stock pot has become very clear.

kadriver
 
I have reclaimed about 2% of my gold via the stock pot, but then I can be quite aggressive when I precipitate gold or wash it, any gold that doesn't settle in the beaker I recover in the stock pot.

Göran
 
kadriver said:
Harold_V said:
For exceptions, such as when a customer submitted a platinum object, if they could reuse the platinum, it would be pickled until it fell apart.

Can you describe the process you used for "pickling" the platinum object?
Simple. I prolonged boil in a covered vessel in which one has AR. Platinum is very slow to dissolve, so the solder is attacked quickly by comparison.
Remelting used platinum isn't a good idea, as silver combined with platinum tends to yield a brittle alloy. The solder used for platinum contains at least traces of silver, so it's a good idea to rid the object of all solder.

You're going to be surprised at how many pieces make up a platinum article. Some items, which you will have wrongly concluded are a single piece, may well be made up of several smaller pieces, which I suspect are die struck instead of cast.

Harold_V said:
In regards to silver, most of my customers weren't all that concerned (unless they were silversmiths), but I had a policy of returning silver, based on percentage.
kadriver said:
Harold, do you remember what percentage was used? I am going to process the silver via silver chloride, lye and sugar, then offer my customer his silver back.
I think it was 7% of the total weight of gold recovered. It's been more than 20 years now, so my memory may not be correct.

There are probably about 2.5 ounces in these last two batches. This will also provide some accounting with respect to the amount of gold recovered from both batches.

We are using 20% as the refining fee, so I'll just keep 20% of the silver then offer the customer the rest.
I'm assuming your 20% fee is for silver, not gold. If you are charging and getting 20% for gold, you're most likely going to lose that customer in due time, as others present a far more attractive offer. I charged 10%, and dropped my fee to 8% if the yield was greater than five ounces. That may appear to be unreasonable to those who keep reading how gold is refined for a few cents per ounce, but keep in mind, there were NO other charges, which is conveniently overlooked when low refining fees are discussed. By the time a major refiner is finished with the charges that accompany a shipment, the 10% fee is actually very reasonable. My fee for refining silver was 20%, eventually raised from 15%, which was a losing proposition for me. Silver is rather labor intensive unless processed in large volumes.

The silver I returned to my customers was by way of crystals from the cell. I would strongly recommend you NOT return recovered silver, regardless of the method of recovery, unless it has been parted. Two good reasons why that is. One of them is that silver is the carrier of the platinum group, so you may be giving away considerably more value than intended. The second one is because the silver won't be pure, it may or may not be useful to the individual, and if used, could present problems (brittle silver, for example), which will reflect directly on you, as if you are not competent to provide pure metal. Make damned sure you don't dispense anything that is contaminated. Ever! If a customer has problems because of you, he will be lost, as well as speak poorly of you to others. Avoid that like the plague.

Harold_V said:
What makes the most sense is that you don't spend time chasing traces of values, yet when the time comes to recover, you're rewarded very handsomely.

Harold
kadriver said:
I was actually evaporating a solution with trace amounts to get at the PGMs and it dawned on me that this was a waste of energy and time.

I got out a clean 5 gallon bucket made of HDPE and dumped the solution into the bucket then added a tablespoon of iron filings.

From now on I am going for the "stock pot" retirement plan and plan to add all my gold refining wastes to catch any PMs.

I just wonder how much I have thrown away by committing it straight to waste treatment. Putting it all in the stock pot makes so much more sense!

I was alway vague about the function of the stock pot - now that I am seeing more and more trace amounts of PGMs by refining wastes that contain them, the function of the stock pot has become very clear.

kadriver
Many will most likely not agree with me, but precious few, so far, appear to grasp the importance or function of the stock pot. That, of course, depends on how one would intend to recover the values. If it is intended to be by furnace, using copper is not a good idea, as one must create a collector. I intentionally added not only copper (from the stock pot), but filters from gold refining, all incinerated for storage. Because I used tap water for all my processing, I created traces of silver chloride. That was actually part of my plan, as I knew a collector would be required, and it proved to be an excellent source, based on the results I achieved by furnace. It was also far more convenient to use tap water than be troubled by constantly distilling, or being trapped in the world of having to purchase distilled water. The only time I used distilled water was in the operation of my silver cell. YMMV.

By the way, in regards to using "a hand full of iron filings", while they work, I'd highly recommend to you that you use pieces of iron. Rebar, bits of channel or angle iron, or even pieces of scrap sheet or plate steel. That way, when there's enough accumulation in the bucket you use as a stock pot, the pieces can be removed and the values recovered. By allowing the solution to settle fully, you can then decant by siphoning, leaving only a small amount to be filtered, where the values are collected. No need to even clean the pieces, as any values that are attached will be returned to the stock pot, where they will be liberated as the material is dissolved in time. Just keep a generous amount of scrap steel (iron) in the stock pot at all times.

Tip----anything that is removed from filings in the way of iron is sent to the stock pot. That way traces of values that are removed with the steel are not lost. I gave them a second or even third rubbing in a mortar, returning any non-magnetic "dirt" to the filings. That way the customer isn't cheated, but traces are also not lost. That's one of the reasons that using steel makes more sense than using copper, although steel introduced to a copper stock pot will be consumed, producing more copper, which, in turn, will recover greater values. You just can't separate the fine bits of copper easily if the stock pot is cleaned out.

Harold
 
Harold_V said:
The silver I returned to my customers was by way of crystals from the cell. I would strongly recommend you NOT return recovered silver, regardless of the method of recovery, unless it has been parted. Two good reasons why that is. One of them is that silver is the carrier of the platinum group, so you may be giving away considerably more value than intended. The second one is because the silver won't be pure, it may or may not be useful to the individual, and if used, could present problems (brittle silver, for example), which will reflect directly on you, as if you are not competent to provide pure metal. Make damned sure you don't dispense anything that is contaminated. Ever! If a customer has problems because of you, he will be lost, as well as speak poorly of you to others. Avoid that like the plague.

Harold

I'm glad you pointed this out, I'll recover the silver chloride with lye and sugar to get the weight of his material. Then run it through the cell before I return it.

kadriver
 
Harold, I am getting 20% for the gold and silver. When we first started I quoted 10%. After I brought him the first batch of pure gold he said to increase the percentage to fifteen. Then he said to raise it to twenty percent. I expressed my gratitude and he said we should both make some money in this venture!

I asked him again today about the high percentage payout that he is offering. He said, "I know what you have to go through to get the metal, I am not stupid and I know what I am doing by giving you twenty percent". I thanked him again and left it at that. I did say that if we get into larger amounts of gold that we can adjust the percentage down. He said OK. I trust him and he trusts me. I am a firm believer in; what goes around, comes around.

kadriver
 
In my other post i stated that i used iron filings and in this post Harold recommend not to use filings, but larger pieces. I would like to point out that in the other post i made i mentioned only adding small amounts of filings and always observing the amount in the bottom of the bucket each time you decant. This way in the end their is almost no residual iron left. The reason of course being that if you pile the bottom of the bucket full it will form a crust and you values will be trapped in an iron clump that will cement together and will be a lot of trouble and extra steps to refine. I think that is why Harold recommended a bar or slab. Both systems will work it's just the techniques that you apply in your processing that will dictate your success. It doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there. Those are good profit margins Kevin! I charge 10% on karat gold, 8% for over 5oz returned. 15% on gold filled under a 5lb lot(gross, not return), 10% for anything over 5lb. High stainless content add 5%.
I get 8% for silver oxide batteries. 10% for sterling, 12% for coin, 13.5% for brazings with tin, and so on. (Min 5lb return, not gross weight in)
Customer pays all shipping and insurance cost!
If the price keeps going down those will change considering i'm working on a percentage. With silver i have to run it hard and a lot of it!
 
Palladium said:
In my other post i stated that i used iron filings and in this post Harold recommend not to use filings, but larger pieces. I would like to point out that in the other post i made i mentioned only adding small amounts of filings and always observing the amount in the bottom of the bucket each time you decant. This way in the end their is almost no residual iron left. The reason of course being that if you pile the bottom of the bucket full it will form a crust and you values will be trapped in an iron clump that will cement together and will be a lot of trouble and extra steps to refine. I think that is why Harold recommended a bar or slab.
Correct. When it's time to clean out the stock pot, you want to ensure that you can separate the values from the steel (or copper) used to cement. So long as you use small bits sparingly, seeing them to complete dissolution, they're perfectly fine, at least in my opinion.

Harold
 
The moderators would like to thank all of the members who contributed to the original thread that this post was based on, as well as those who asked questions showing what was missing. Because of the extra length and interest in this thread we have created the above, consolidated version making for an easier read. We encourage all members to read, comment, and ask questions in the original thread, Jewelers filings and clippings.

The moderators have edited some posts in this thread that made reference to posts that were deleted. We strive to make these Library threads as concise as possible by deleting posts that do not add information to the original topic. All of the original posts are still preserved in the thread listed above.

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