LP gas configuration to melt gold

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The yellow flame is what we call a reducing flame, as it can reduce the the more reactive metals to their elemental state. The flame lacks oxygen, your fan is not giving enough air for the amount of fuel you are using, either a bigger fan or using a smaller gas orifice will fix.
The flame Yellow is giving off un-burnt gases full of carbon 9which makes it a good reducer of the metal salt to metal elements, sometimes we want this type of flame but it really depends on what we are doing. (this flame can also introduce more pollutants into the air). Normally not what you want in your furnace, but their are times it is very useful.

The Blue flame can be a neutral flame. A very hot flame with just right on oxygen to fuel ratio, this will produce the best heat. We call the flame here stoichiometric combustion or chemical reaction exactly how much of both chemicals needed in the chemical reaction, or just the right amount of fuel with just the right amount of air for complete combustion, this will also be the cleanest flame and will produce the least amount of pollutants into the air...

We can also provide more air or oxygen than gas it will also be a blue flame but different at burner, and less heat. This is an oxidizing flame it will make salts of metals that oxidize more easily, make rust out of iron for example.

See the reactivity series of metals, carbon is added to the chart as a reference, to which metals can be reduced with carbon.

High pressure regulators are normally where you have larger burners, most high pressure regulators can be adjusted down to a low pressure, many or most of the low pressure propane regulators can not be adjusted and have a fixed setting.

Fuels can attack hoses and become very dangerous, different fuels nee different types of hoses, be sure your hoses are rated for the fuel (and pressures your using them with). a fuel leak or busted hose is not something you want to happen, a leak can fuel an area with fuel making a dangerous situation to be in.

Using the improper hose for the fuel you are using is just an accident waiting to happen.

Looks like you are making good progress, adjustments or tweaking your design is all part of the game when you are building your homemade burner, learning what it needs and what makes it work is an important part of that process.

Sorry I was having trouble seeing the pictures you posted. But this is probably what you were talking about.
 
Some usable information about flash back arrestors
http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?13336-Propane-burner-safty&p=205746
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https://image.ibb.co/c4ufWk/IMG_20170822_172340.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/hM65xQ/IMG_20170822_172232_BURST5.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/k48UP5/IMG_20170822_173610.jpg
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Thanks butcher
But I don't think a bigger blower will fix the problem. Why?
Because I adjust air with valve and I opened just 30% of valve!
If I let more air go to the pipe, flame will turns off!

I also want to know why burner don't work with low pressure regulator. In this page he works with BBQ regulator
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/blowburner01.html

Maybe gas does not mix with air completely.
https://preview.ibb.co/eemSSQ/IMG_20170823_123711.jpg
 
Look closer at the picture Butcher posted here.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8471#p275607

The cone on the end of the burner will help stop it from blowing out in many cases. Some of my earlier burners would not run outside of my furnace without that cone, but ran very good with one. It may not be your problem but it could help.
 
Thanks Shark
I will make a cone I hope cone fixes my problem

I see a video in youtube that his burner did not work. I think his problem was like my problem
As my English is not good and he don't show fixing burner, can someone see this video and explain how he fixes burner and what he says about problem ?

4:00 min to 4:50 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l697pB9X5TI

He has another video that he makes a cone for his burner but I did not understand it relates to first video or not but I can see his burner works better with a cone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6GcaKsRGDM
 
The first video he is using waste oil for fuel. I am not that up to date on waste oil use.

In the second video his problem is when he adds more air the flame blows out, by adding a cone, it stays lit and should produce more heat when and where he wants it. I went through the same process when building my burners. The cone does not have to as complicated as his to work well. For one of mine, I simply added threads to the burner end and screwed on an coupling. When I added it to the furnace, I removed the coupling.
 
It does not work even with a cone and inside the furnace!!!
My gas pipe is 1-1/4 inch, I want to build a new one with 2 inch pipe. What do you think ?

http://uupload.ir/files/di4i_img_20170827_195229_ao_hdr.jpg


Video: (with low pressure regulator)
http://iranbm.com/saadat68.mp4
 
Quit chasing your tail and just build one of these for a few dollars in an hour or two. If your using natural gas the only thing you need to change is the orifice hole size. You need a adjustable regulator so you can control the gas flow.
 

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I see the problem now. Unless you are going to bypass the residential gas regulator you can't boost your pressure to use the Reil design. That's why you are using a blower. I would just use LP and go with a Reil burner. Less trouble and no moving parts to go bad. Surely you have LP gas tanks in Iran?
 
Palladium said:
I see the problem now. Unless you are going to bypass the residential gas regulator you can't boost your pressure to use the Reil design. That's why you are using a blower. I would just use LP and go with a Reil burner. Less trouble and no moving parts to go bad. Surely you have LP gas tanks in Iran?
Hi
Thanks
In my workshop I don't have residential gas. I have 2 LPG tank with 2 regulator.
low pressure regulator gas output: 0.5 psi
high pressure regulator gas output is : 4 - 44 psi

I test it with both regulators and with natural gas in my home

I prefer build a burner that works with blower (It is very better than venturi type) :?

"Atmospheric" a.k.a. "venturi" a.k.a "self-aspirated" burners are very popular because of the convenience of not needing an air blower and electricity source to power it. But they are also wasteful compared to blown air burners. The typical homemade atmospheric burner requires a high pressure regulator to blast propane through it at over 10 PSI, creating a low pressure zone or "vacuum" in the burner tube to suck in oxygen for combustion. With this high gas pressure far more propane is being blown in than can mix evenly with the air. So it get's wasted and doesn't burn until it exits the vent hole and contacts fresh oxygen creating a pillar of fire. Next thing you know, the propane tank is "freezing up" and running empty after about 5 or 6 melts.
 
Both will produce a good flame for a furnace, the venturi burners work well with smaller furnaces, the blower style is used in larger furnaces. I would not say one is better than the other, as it depends on the application or furnace the burners are used in, and how well the burners are made.
The trick is to get a proper mix of fuel to air ratio.
Getting the air to fuel ratio correct is the key to getting the burner working, with the blower it can be a bit more of a challenge than using the venturi burner.

A cone, burner diffuser head, or burner ceramic cone, can help to maintain the flame once the proper air fuel ratio is achieved.

http://waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/uploads/Ribbon_Forge_Burner.pdf
http://anvilfire.com/article.php?bodyName=/21centbs/forges/gasburn1.htm
http://www.metalartistforum.com/maf/index.php?/topic/6452-hans-peot-designed-lp-gas-tube-forge/
http://www.metalartistforum.com/maf/uploads/monthly_05_2011/post-1069-063665600%201305754755.jpg
https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/46253-another-new-forge/




orf_cht.gifcp_mx_lo.jpg.a02d7c2b3bc50458ef8c73f67417de4d.jpg
Note: the diffuse cone (burner head)
Note: propane orfice centered in air stream for better mixture of fuel and air.
coup_2.jpg
coup_3.jpg
 
Palladium said:
You seem to want to do things the hard way!
I'll leave you to your tinkering.
I just want to work with low pressure gas. In another forum one person said to me if you want to work with natural gas and low pressure gas you must make a burner with 2 inch pipe. Today I build it and tomorrow I will test it.
If it does not work I will build venturi type
Also I think finally I will work with a venturi type that you send it's plan
 
My new 2 inch burner didn't work even with a 2 inch pipe and high pressure propane

I will make a venturi type. I buy 3/4 inch pipe and 1 inch and 1-1/2 inch reducing bell today

Thank you
Saadat
 
Hi

Here is a very good video explaining how to build a venturie type burner.

https://youtu.be/eO8NwseRxSA

There is another video by the same person shows how to turn a trash can into larger furnace for larger cruicble.

Melted copper in 20 mintues.

Regards
Kj
 
Depending on where you are, standard white Teflon tape may be illegal on gas lines. A heavier, yellow version is available for use on gas lines. Because it is thicker, it is not as prone to shredding as the thinner white tape. Many areas require the use of yellow tape on small gas lines. Of course, you will probably never be inspected, but there is a safety reason for using the right tape.

Dave
 
Never use oil on oxygen tank fittings, hose fittings or regulators, most pipe dopes contain oil and cannot be used on oxygen fitting, because of risks of fire or explosion, even the protective cover cap for the valve should never be oiled, keep the oil away from oxygen.

Acetylene with some of the metal salts can also pose explosive dangers, not the flame but the gas itself.

Anyone using a torch or a burner or furnace should study the safety of its use, like with most of what we do, the dangers lie heavily upon us, when we do not know the safe use and proper care of the equipment, a little study can not only help us to use it better, but can keep us from an accident from not knowing the danger are even there waiting.
 
4metals said:
Excellent video and easy to follow instructions. No reason for anyone not to smelt now!!

4metals,

Excellent is what you and other senior members of this great forum have been doing for all of us, with your in-depth yet simple posts about so many subjects.

I thank you and others for providing me with so much information all these years, that allowed me to build equipments based on your posts.

I reas your excellent post on smelting few times and in progress in putting together pieces yo mentioned in that post, and will post them under the same post as soon as they are complete.

Again thanks so much sir
Kj
 

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