LP gas configuration to melt gold
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My guess would be neutral, not yellow enough for a strong oxidizing flame.
Topher_osAUrus
Well-known member
Palladium said:
Wise words.
Dont know why, but it made me think if an old "as seen on tv" thing-a-ma-jig. -The vortex-, or tornado, maybe vornado?
Anyways, all it was, was a few fins with holes to help mix the air fuel ratio and "get better gas mileage" (how it mixed the air and fuel better, while ONLY being in the airbox line, i haven't a clue)
But, would something like this be applicable to his problem?
Having it in line, after the fuel injection point, so the fuel and air can get a more intimate mixture before ignition?
If not, sorry for the distraction.
Thank you allPalladium said:
It sucks a lot of air and without closing pipe it doesn't work.
I closed my pipe with cloth just for testing. Tomorrow I will make something for closing pipe and adjusting air.
Hope it will get me completely blue flame. But I don't think it will get me a better flame because I tried many today to get blue flame and It seems has a problem
Welding 2 inch pipe instead of ring can solve problem ? It helps gas and air mix in a bigger place
http://uupload.ir/files/llaj_img_20170831_235520.jpg
@Topher
It can be obstacle on venturi effect ?!
Topher_osAUrus
Well-known member
saadat68 said:
I honestly do not know.
If you had it in line with a blower I don't think it would be an issue. With a venturi set up though, it may cause restriction and prevent ignition. I would imagine the location of it would either cause you grief, or success. However, this is nothing more than speculation.
Sorry I am of no assistance. I do eagerly read this thread though, as I am building a furnace now. -debating on a blower or venturi design.
I very much like the simple design suggested by kevin, in that youtube video. ...actually, that youtube guy has a lot of interesting videos.
To get a reducing flame you will be cutting air back and cutting fuel back. In your photo the gas is full open, that flow of gas requires a lot of air to burn all of that fuel to get to a reducing flame. Try limiting the air and cutting back the fuel. You will have to play with both air and gas to hit the sweet spot, you won't get there just cutting the air back. You will also hear it roar when it is right.
This is from when I was making mine. The second half of the video doesn't do the "roar" justice as I couldn't stand to get any closer with the camera. I had to use the zoom to get that footage due to the heat.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8KERa2p0V4[/youtube]
While I use LP gas the smaller burner produces more heat, I think. I have no way to check the actual temperature but the smaller burner will melt copper fairly easy, while the larger one never did.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8KERa2p0V4[/youtube]
While I use LP gas the smaller burner produces more heat, I think. I have no way to check the actual temperature but the smaller burner will melt copper fairly easy, while the larger one never did.
Cheap, but effective for what we do. And when your not melting it can be used to drive the cats crazy! :lol:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LCD-Temperature-Gun-Non-Contact-Digital-Laser-Infrared-IR-Thermometer-/130979214461?epid=691193511&hash=item1e7ef8347d:g:dcMAAOSw2xRYXKWc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LCD-Temperature-Gun-Non-Contact-Digital-Laser-Infrared-IR-Thermometer-/130979214461?epid=691193511&hash=item1e7ef8347d:g:dcMAAOSw2xRYXKWc
Do NOT use a 2in pipe unless you plan on turning the pressure wayyy up as well as the volume and changing the orifice size. The hole size is designed on the mixing chamber size (3/4 in). You can't just change one thing without changing another or you will be chasing your tail again! Like 3metals pointed out you will have to adjust your pressure as well as increase or restrict your air flow to hit that sweet spot. I bought mine premade off ebay because i didn't have time to mess with it, but mine will rock and roll even in that big furnace i built on the farm. Follow the design i posted one page 1 of this thread and don't change anything. I love the roar of my furnace and can tell halfway across my property just by listening to the roar if it is running right or not.
4metals I cutting back gas with tank. I try again today with adjusting air and gas
Palladium I just use a 1/2 inch pipe instead of 1/8 inch for orifice because I can not find 1/8 inch pipe here also my pipe is out of chamber and orifice is very smaller. you can see in my image
I really built it from your plan and videos from YouTube
I think my problem can solve with 2 inch pipe because :
1- in many images I see their burner have this pipe and the orifice adds to this pipe (look to Shark's new burner )
2- You said copythat plan and I say OK, So I will add 2 inch pipe. Look this image:
http://uupload.ir/files/xn86_untitled_-_2.jpg
This is my mistake. Right ?
Edit:
Burner in Kevin's video is like my burner so I don't think 2 inch pipe solve the problem
http://uupload.ir/files/zucl_sdfg.jpg
Palladium I just use a 1/2 inch pipe instead of 1/8 inch for orifice because I can not find 1/8 inch pipe here also my pipe is out of chamber and orifice is very smaller. you can see in my image
I really built it from your plan and videos from YouTube
I think my problem can solve with 2 inch pipe because :
1- in many images I see their burner have this pipe and the orifice adds to this pipe (look to Shark's new burner )
2- You said copythat plan and I say OK, So I will add 2 inch pipe. Look this image:
http://uupload.ir/files/xn86_untitled_-_2.jpg
This is my mistake. Right ?
Edit:
Burner in Kevin's video is like my burner so I don't think 2 inch pipe solve the problem
http://uupload.ir/files/zucl_sdfg.jpg
If I add nozzle like upper image can solve the problem ? (My weld is smaller than these screws)
I cut pipe of air force burner today for something
Then I decide to test my air force burner again. I think it works
It doesn't blow out when I add more air. If I add more air, I will get a red and strong flame
Video from flame that I think it is neutral:
Color is 95 percent blue and have a good roar
http://iranbm.com/saadat68.mp4
Then I decide to test my air force burner again. I think it works
It doesn't blow out when I add more air. If I add more air, I will get a red and strong flame
Video from flame that I think it is neutral:
Color is 95 percent blue and have a good roar
http://iranbm.com/saadat68.mp4
I think the sound you are hearing is not the roar of the flame from a well tuned burner, but the sound of the gas as it combustes inside the burner tube. The flame needs to combust just outside the tube. You need more air to push the flame out of the tube and just past the end of the pipe. For the air ration of propane to burn right i think it is 23 parts air to 1 part propane. Now you see the importance of mixing properly!
My pipe was red!!! You are very professional
I try again tomorrow
Is this flame neutral ?
I tried many today to get blue flame with propane burner but I couldn't even with this burner that I bought from shop
http://uupload.ir/files/pz9w_img_20170901_193016_1.jpg
I said I cut the pipe of air force burner. now the orifice is middle of pipe and this section was red. If I add orifice near the blower can solve the problem ?
http://uupload.ir/files/bo7i_img_20170827_195229_ao_hdr.jpg
Two questions. On the tube with the fan you said orifice. Do you mean you have a orifice with a hole drilled a certain size?
# 2 What kind of regulator do you have on the lp tank for the gas regulation? Is it the kind you use on cutting torches or a bbq grill regulator? If it is adjustable what is the highest pressure it will push out?
# 2 What kind of regulator do you have on the lp tank for the gas regulation? Is it the kind you use on cutting torches or a bbq grill regulator? If it is adjustable what is the highest pressure it will push out?
Can you post some picture of your furnace? What is the load chamber size or inside furnace dimensions?
What size crucible and how much are you trying to melt in one pour?
There's to many variables in your design. As each parameter changes so does another one down the line.
Let's get down and dirty!
Here's how i would do it. First use a 1 in pipe. Length doesn't matter. The longer the pipe the more mixing it has this way. Do away with the orifice. I don't think your getting enough gas from what i'm seeing. That's why you can only turn the air up so far before a flame out! The regulator and hose will deliver it, but your restriction is the orifice size. When i use to run and build aluminum sweat furnaces i have actually just drilled a hole in the side of the blower casing and put in a hose barb and piped the gas straight into the furnace. That was a trauma fix to keep from shutting down. It took $ 3,800 and 36 hours to bring that furnace up to operating temperature from a cold start not to mention you don't just shut a machine like that down cold turkey. You have to have a controlled temp drop or your refractory will sprawl all to hell and that's a $100,00 problem.
After you do away with the orifice it gets pretty simple. All you need to come out the end of that pipe is pretty simple. Air+gas (mixed) = flame. With the air at 1/4 turn open to produce a light draft from the blower to keep the gas from back building into the fan, turn the gas a couple of psi and light the end. Turn the air up until you get a blue flame and the base of the flame leaps about a 1/4 from the end of the pipe. The color of the flame will tell you the sweet spot. If you add to much air the flame will change colors and when you add way to much air per gas volume it will flame out. Back off the air without turning the gas down and light it again. Then boost the gas a psi or so and the color will change to rich again. Then turn the air up until you reach the sweet spot at neutral again. Keep doing this in steps and the btu output will increase with each step. Once you get it dialed in you can record the psi of the gas and the turns of the valve you have to open for the air. Next time just set it and light it! It will take some learning and experience on your part, but it can't get much simpler than that.
Here's a good link http://www.comtherm.co.uk/tech-com.htm
What size crucible and how much are you trying to melt in one pour?
There's to many variables in your design. As each parameter changes so does another one down the line.
Let's get down and dirty!
Here's how i would do it. First use a 1 in pipe. Length doesn't matter. The longer the pipe the more mixing it has this way. Do away with the orifice. I don't think your getting enough gas from what i'm seeing. That's why you can only turn the air up so far before a flame out! The regulator and hose will deliver it, but your restriction is the orifice size. When i use to run and build aluminum sweat furnaces i have actually just drilled a hole in the side of the blower casing and put in a hose barb and piped the gas straight into the furnace. That was a trauma fix to keep from shutting down. It took $ 3,800 and 36 hours to bring that furnace up to operating temperature from a cold start not to mention you don't just shut a machine like that down cold turkey. You have to have a controlled temp drop or your refractory will sprawl all to hell and that's a $100,00 problem.
After you do away with the orifice it gets pretty simple. All you need to come out the end of that pipe is pretty simple. Air+gas (mixed) = flame. With the air at 1/4 turn open to produce a light draft from the blower to keep the gas from back building into the fan, turn the gas a couple of psi and light the end. Turn the air up until you get a blue flame and the base of the flame leaps about a 1/4 from the end of the pipe. The color of the flame will tell you the sweet spot. If you add to much air the flame will change colors and when you add way to much air per gas volume it will flame out. Back off the air without turning the gas down and light it again. Then boost the gas a psi or so and the color will change to rich again. Then turn the air up until you reach the sweet spot at neutral again. Keep doing this in steps and the btu output will increase with each step. Once you get it dialed in you can record the psi of the gas and the turns of the valve you have to open for the air. Next time just set it and light it! It will take some learning and experience on your part, but it can't get much simpler than that.
Here's a good link http://www.comtherm.co.uk/tech-com.htm
