infinatesorrow said:
Really there are some people here who showed at least a little respect even the stern and orderly harold
I would hope you take away from the recent exchange that it has little to do with respect, and everything to do with getting readers to apply emphasis on good and proper practice. We do that, in part, by demanding that readers speak in clear, concise English---we prefer to not let the general tone of the forum deteriorate to a slug fest. We are quick (very quick, indeed!) to run off those that refuse to "heal". It's not a power struggle, but a way of defining those that have a serious intent, and willing to comply with that which those of us that have experience know to be important.
Whom im guessing is the one who started the forum,
No. It isn't mine. I am a volunteer, just as the balance of moderators are. The forum was started by our leader, Noxx, then a 17 year old young man that has great wisdom and judgment. We look after him as if he was our own son. There is good reason for our attitude, which you will come to understand, I'll talk about that a little bit later.
and from a background im guessing that required strict attention to details.Retired?
Yes, having worked as a machinist/toolmaker, I am very detail oriented. It was that quality that made me successful in my venture.
a very intelligent man, well educated probably university, though again its just a guess.
Sigh!
If only. I struggled to graduate high school, and received some very lousy grades, including failing one class (history). I have no formal education beyond high school, aside from a couple quarters, one of chemistry, one of advanced mathematics. What I do have is pride in myself, and the image I try to project. One need not have a formal education to be educated---although it is rare, today, to find those that have respect for self made people.
some take the directness as intolerance which it may very well be, on the other hand it can also be a sign of integrity to be direct. its always best to just say what you mean and let the chips fall where they may. prefers a nice orderly world , almost sounds like x military or law enforcement .
It is very much a part of trying to pass on to others a skill set that can prove fatal. If I, or others, find we are talking to a mule, it is best we don't contribute. If a reader has a mindset that he must do things his way, he/she often goes a direction that is troublesome, having failed to observe what may have been very good guidelines. Self thinkers, those without experience, tend to create messes that are difficult to unwind, due in part to having included a step they "thought" would be useful. I have long admonished the new guys to stick to the known procedures---which are proven to be successful. Making uninformed decisions can lead to failure, and even death. It's easy to create explosive compounds when working with precious metals. Follow the "rules" and you're perfectly safe, but one wrong misstep, one that may appear to be harmless, and you can die. No one in their right mind wants to be party to anything like that.
i personally like the upfront approach' So after quit taking myself so seriously, i was able to see that i would have to relearn the mechanics s of typeing, i was perfectly willing to do as best i could as time permits,since then its almost like reading the bathroom walls at work. There were a couple who actually had something to say, but for the most part the rest was a useless waste of time that completely destroyed any ability to have a meaningful exchange of information.
The important part of your comment, here, is the last sentence. When you type a long paragraph, no punctuation, no capitalization, maybe it's OK with you, but others find it bordering on the impossible to read. That, my friend, is not conducive to having a meaningful exchange. It is for your own good that we insist you try to do better. Otherwise, you won't garner the attention of those that may have the answer to your problems.
<snip lots of very informative text---all read by me. >
"Sorry, I will not help you injure yourself or someone else. If you don't have the disipline to at least give your best effort in communicating your thoughts or questions. How disciplined are you going to be with dangerous and deadly chemicals."
again i find this to be a judgmental and self defeating approach, by refusing to help someone do something right when they ask, you are in fact contributing to them injuring themselves or others.
I hope I covered that with my comments, above. If you, or any reader, is hell bent on presenting themselves in a fashion whereby we must accept them, warts and all, and they have little to no interest in making an attempt to comply with simple "rules of the forum", that's a pretty good sign that they will accept only information with which they agree, right or wrong. If that be the case, and a reader is bound to be self destructive, so be it---but let them do it on their own. I know, personally, I would not enjoy hearing that I had offered you guidance, and you were hurt in the process of pursuing your interest---ignoring information that you may not find to your liking.
people learn in different manners theres actually 3: tactile, visual and aural. The way i teach is to implement a little of each and i find it has results. you show them person how you do and explain why you do it that way. give them something simple to do that will help boost their confidence and alleviate self limiting fears and anxieties. compliment them on their efforts, explain what you would have done different and why, then have them do it 3 more times because any musician knows 4 is the magic number.
If you play Haydn's The Creation and mess up, you don't die. If you screw up with chemicals, you may. We can't stand by and watch you do stupid things until you get it right. We try to give advice that is useful, and safe. It can't be disseminated properly when there is a total disregard for proper language. The forum is read my many---some with an education, some without. We must speak as if we have knowledge----not as if we're dumbed down. People that speak poorly are often dismissed. This forum is the only place on the internet where you can learn proper procedures (which you are soon to discover).
this forum does have alot of useful information, but its over intellectualized by far. makes it alot more difficult to decipher. dumb it down a little, only because it makes it easier for people to digest which after all is the same thing youre asking me yes? smart it up a little? hokes book is good in that he describes stuff clearly and concisely and right from the start he tells you to familiarize yourself with the reactions and materials, BEFORE proceeding. doesnt matter how many times you read the book, theory is just that theory, it takes application to turn it in to knowledge and repetition to make it a skill
Practice makes perfect, agreed?
How about bad practice. Does it build perfection? I agree, you must apply what you learn, but if you apply what you think you've learned (and it's incorrect), how is that going to make you better at what you hope to achieve? Refining is dead simple---when you know how. Follow the "recipe" and you'll achieve success. Venture forth with incorrect information, or change that parts you don't like, and that all changes.
you guys make it sound like if you dont read the book 1000 times and walk in a circle 3 times backwards the whole world will end if you try to make nitric acid. better results approaching it from a more practical point of view. there are certain precautions that are standard for every type of hazmat, these are all standard practice and the knowledge is easily obtained that allows one to safely do this stuff. but the more you scare a person the harder it will be for them to concentrate on what they are doing. show people how to respect what they are working with not live in fear of it. fear is self limiting tends to interfere with true learning
I interpret those comments more like "I'll do it my way---I don't have to learn what you want me to learn". Problem with that attitude is what I tried to say, above. When you don't follow prescribed procedures, you generally fail. Then you want one of us to step forward and save your bacon. You don't have the time or patience to learn from the bottom up, but now you want to be bailed out. We don't work that way, and we shouldn't. You should know, by now, that a guy doesn't buy a guitar and is an instant success as a musician. He takes lessons and dedicates ample time to (proper) practice. If he fails to do that and tries to play with seasoned musicians, he fails (speaking from personal experience). Why should it be any different when refining gold? Paul Desmond played the sweetest alto sax in modern times. He made it look easy--as if anyone could do it. That's because he paid dues---he studied the instrument and did his share of practice time---he did not pick up an alto and start playing. And so it is with refining precious metals. You must be disciplined, and follow instructions, and, hopefully, not try to reprogram those that can help you.
anyway ill stop by sometimes im sure, i never throw away a source of information if i can help it. but ill go and ask questions somewhere where people have an open enough mind that i can spend my time more productively than writing this stupid letter.
Chuckle!
It is only a matter of time until you see the wisdom of what you've been told. If you gain *information* (a term I use loosely) elsewhere, you'll come to understand what we've all been trying to tell you. If you're the type that must be run over by a bus in order to understand it can be harmful, I wish you well in your venture, but I fully expect you'll be back here seeking advice. Remember---we'll still expect you to follow convention----to write so it can be understood---and to use punctuation.
This I guarantee you---there is
no other source on the internet where you can learn proper procedures. There's no shortage of those that want you to believe they know how it's done (follow the money and you'll see what I'm talking about), but I expect when you look for that lost wallet where the light's best instead of where it was lost, that will come home to roost fast enough.
Good luck!
Harold
thing is i have as usual way too much information so id like to start with a few simple questions, easiest way to break silver, gold, and platinum down
