Poor mans Nitric and Silver

[Rreyes097]

The reason gold filled is not recommended to inquart is due to the remaining foils not being passivated because of thickness of the material. I have always had a few chunks of mostly silver chloride left but nothing that would dissuade me from using AR on recovered gold filled foils.

Hey geo,
I was hoping you could tell me what I need to do with the gold filled solution that contains the silver. Well I'm assuming it does. How do I successfully recover the silver from about 100 grams of g.f. I've watched your video many times.

 

[Shark]

Sorry for being late. Geo might give more clear answer than I can.

Allow the nitric solution to settle completely clear. Slowly drain or siphon off the clear liquid with out disturbing the sediment. Add enough hot water to cover twice the space of the sediment. Allow to settle and siphon/drain off again. Repeat until the solution comes off water clear or ph test to a non acidic condition. Add the sediment to about a 10% sulfuric acid and water solution (1part sulfuric to 9 parts water) and add iron. Stir until the remaining sediment turns blackish grey, that will be your silver. Allow to sit over night with iron which should continue to darken until completed. Every part of the silver chloride must contact the iron and solution or it will not convert to metallic silver.

As for the gold foils left, rinse and go straight to AR. Treat as you would any other AR / gold process.

Edit for poor spelling and clarity.

 

[Rreyes097]

Sorry for being late. Geo might give more clear answer than I can.

Allow the nitric solution to settle completely clear. Slowly drain or siphon off the clear liquid with out disturbing the sediment. Add enough hot water to cover twice the space of the sediment. Allow to settle and siphon/drain off again. Repeat until the solution comes off water clear or ph test to a non acidic condition. Add the sediment to about a 10% sulfuric acid and water solution (1part sulfuric to 9!parts water) and add iron. Stir until the remaining sediment turns blackish grey, that will be your silver. Allow to sit over nitric with iron which should continue to darken until completed. Ever part of the silver chloride must contact the iron and solution or it will not convert to metallic silver.

As for the gold foils left, rinse and go straight to AR. Treat as you would any other AR / gold process.

Is that for me? Thank you so much for responding. But I'm kinda confused, plus let me tell you where my situation stands now.
100 grams gold filled incinerated and put into poor man's nitric ( sulfuric acid and potassium nitrate and distilled water). Heated and until after reaction stops, I'd put in a little more water and a spoon full of nitrates. Second and 3rd time reaction stops I decant solution through coffee filter. Had to do two funnels because I no longer have the right beaker to vacuum filter. So I used two funnels to try and expedite filtering. This resulted in lots of solution. I haven't noticed any silver chloride. So I thought maybe it was in solution? But there were sediment. Which is now mostly in the filters and the breaker. I thought it was either tin or metastannic acid, so I was planning on taking all the sediment and foils along with the filters and incinerating it. Because that's how you deal with that dreaded metastannic acid isn't it? Turning it into tin oxide? But if it's silver, which it doesn't look like silver chloride then it would be somehow regular silver right? And if I were to incinerate it then wouldn't I be turning it into silver oxide? Which is not what I want. Or do I have the chemistry all backwards?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Perhaps you should open a new thread...

I agree, just let me know what to call it.

 

[Rreyes097]

I agree, just let me know what to call it.

Is silver recovery possible when working with poor man's nitric?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Is silver recovery possible when working with poor man's nitric?

I will move your part if this thread to another thread. You highjacked another and unrelated thread.

Let me know what to call it.

By the way your question do not reflect the quoted text.

 

[Shark]

I will move your part if this thread to another thread. You highjacked another and unrelated thread.

Let me know what to call it.

By the way your question do not reflect the quoted text.

Are we in the right thread to answer Rreyes097 question here?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Are we in the right thread to answer Rreyes097 question here?

Yes I think so. He highjacked a thread regarding Gold and HypoChlorite.
This thread is about Silver and poor mans Nitric

 

[Rreyes097]

Yes please.
Sorry for highjacking the thread! And don't forget Yggdrasil you were in the passenger seat when I highjacked it. Just playing.

 

[Shark]

Heated and until after reaction stops, I'd put in a little more water and a spoon full of nitrates. Second and 3rd time reaction stops

I am guessing here but now you have a white precipitate that looks similar to silver chloride? But not acting like silver chloride? Geo mentions in his video not to add more nitrates once it is completed, but to siphon it off and start over with a fresh batch. Too much nitrates cause the excess to drop out as a sulfate , stealing some silver, but causing filtering problems as well.

But to back up a bit…..with 100 grams of gold filled you’re not looking to get much silver anyway unless you added some gold over silver material, and is usually marked as such. When I do gold filled it is usually 2-4 pounds at a time. I get very little silver from unknown sources, but it does happen.

Read my previous post again I edited it to clear up some spelling and clarity. Then post where you’re at and what you have. Then we will try to go from there.

 

[Yggdrasil]

The reason gold filled is not recommended to inquart is due to the remaining foils not being passivated because of thickness of the material. I have always had a few chunks of mostly silver chloride left but nothing that would dissuade me from using AR on recovered gold filled foils.

Is this always the case or are there cases when the foils get too thick?

 

[Rreyes097]

Sorry for being late. Geo might give more clear answer than I can.

Allow the nitric solution to settle completely clear. Slowly drain or siphon off the clear liquid with out disturbing the sediment. Add enough hot water to cover twice the space of the sediment. Allow to settle and siphon/drain off again. Repeat until the solution comes off water clear or ph test to a non acidic condition. Add the sediment to about a 10% sulfuric acid and water solution (1part sulfuric to 9 parts water) and add iron. Stir until the remaining sediment turns blackish grey, that will be your silver. Allow to sit over night with iron which should continue to darken until completed. Every part of the silver chloride must contact the iron and solution or it will not convert to metallic silver.

As for the gold foils left, rinse and go straight to AR. Treat as you would any other AR / gold process.

Edit for poor spelling and clarity.

This post? And I totally didn't hear geo say that or maybe I did and just forgot? I don't know. Dang it I have watched that video probably more then half a dozen times. I've also watched any others relating and been reading the forum. But everytime I start reading the old threads I get more questions but nothing that I've found so far relates to my current situation but yes, í did just that! So I posted what I've done so far.
The sediment I have looks white ish but also like sand. I don't see any silver chloride though.
I followed Geos ingredients and measurements. Except when I seen the reaction stop for the first time I just added more water and nitrates. But the 2nd and 3rd times i decanted the solution into filter. Then added all new acid and nitrates and water. Right now I have 2 funnels going because my vacuum filtration beaker is no more. So filtering was slow going. I'm still trying to get the gold foils off of the jewelry. But it's very close to being finished. I have a bunch of solution though. If I'm able to get the silver that's great but if I'm only missing a little bit then that's ok. But I'll need to evaporate this solution to minimize waste.

 

[Rreyes097]

Sorry for being late. Geo might give more clear answer than I can.

Allow the nitric solution to settle completely clear. Slowly drain or siphon off the clear liquid with out disturbing the sediment. Add enough hot water to cover twice the space of the sediment. Allow to settle and siphon/drain off again. Repeat until the solution comes off water clear or ph test to a non acidic condition. Add the sediment to about a 10% sulfuric acid and water solution (1part sulfuric to 9 parts water) and add iron. Stir until the remaining sediment turns blackish grey, that will be your silver. Allow to sit over night with iron which should continue to darken until completed. Every part of the silver chloride must contact the iron and solution or it will not convert to metallic silver.

As for the gold foils left, rinse and go straight to AR. Treat as you would any other AR / gold process.

Edit for poor spelling and clarity.

So am I too late to do this? Since I messed up and added more nitrates? Is my silver now silver sulfate?

 

[Yggdrasil]

So am I too late to do this? Since I messed up and added more nitrates? Is my silver now silver sulfate?

Maybe not.
Decant and add Chlorides.
But why all this fuzz about minute amounts if Silver?
Its just a couple of grams, right?
How many grams of foils?

 

[Rreyes097]

Maybe not.
Decant and add Chlorides.
But why all this fuzz about minute amounts if Silver?
Its just a couple of grams, right?
How many grams of foils?

Well first of all I'm doing this for someone else so I want to do the best I can. And also I'd like to know how to for future reference. I know it's probably only a gram or 2 and if I'm too late to recover the silver then I'm not heartbroken. I just want the knowledge and to do well for a friend that's a jeweler and will possibly give me much more GF in the future.

 

[Shark]

I will be home in a few hours and try to answer some questions then.

 

[Shark]

This post? And I totally didn't hear geo say that or maybe I did and just forgot? I don't know. Dang it I have watched that video probably more then half a dozen times. I've also watched any others relating and been reading the forum. But everytime I start reading the old threads I get more questions but nothing that I've found so far relates to my current situation but yes, í did just that! So I posted what I've done so far.

The devil is in the details… often the things that seem the smallest can be the important things.

The sediment I have looks white ish but also like sand. I don't see any silver chloride though.
I followed Geos ingredients and measurements. Except when I seen the reaction stop for the first time I just added more water and nitrates. But the 2nd and 3rd times i decanted the solution into filter. Then added all new acid and nitrates and water. Right now I have 2 funnels going because my vacuum filtration beaker is no more. So filtering was slow going.

I don’t filter at this point, just pour it off into a container, I use 5 gallon buckets, and rinse the sediment into this bucket as well. Saving it until the base metals are done and only the gold foils are left. At this point I process the gold, and often save the rinse solution until the bucket is full.

I'm still trying to get the gold foils off of the jewelry. But it's very close to being finished. I have a bunch of solution though. If I'm able to get the silver that's great but if I'm only missing a little bit then that's ok.

A little at a time adds up. But with the amount you have, there may not be any silver at all to only a gram or two. With the amount I usually do I don’t count on silver being a factor and work based on the gold only. The silver stays with the stockpot waste until the volume is enough to clean up and then recover any potential pm’s at that time.

But I'll need to evaporate this solution to minimize waste.

I do this when cleaning up the stock pot. After recovering any potential PM’s with copper. Follow the cleaning up waste thread and treat the remaining accordingly.

 

[Geo]

Is this always the case or are there cases when the foils get too thick?

Only if the solids, such the hinges on eyeglass frames, are solid karat scrap and not gold filled.

 

[Geo]

The silver recovery is secondary to the gold. As long as distilled water is used and no other chlorine or chloride is added, there will be no silver chloride. Silver nitrate in solution is clear with no color. If the solution has a color (blue) it is copper and doesn't effect the process. There will never be silver sulfate form using the amounts of chemicals used in my video. Silver sulfate will only form if the solution is allowed to dry completely. The amount of water used will not allow silver sulfate to form. To test for silver in solution, dissolve some sodium chloride (table salt) in water. Isolate a small sample of the solution and add a little salt water. If silver is in solution, white silver chloride will form. If no silver chloride forms in this test, decant to waste and start over with fresh chemicals. If silver is present, it will dissolve but only after all of the other base metals dissolves first. Silver will be the last metal to dissolve in poor man's nitric acid out of gold filled material.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Only if the solids, such the hinges on eyeglass frames, are solid karat scrap and not gold filled.

Ok. Thanks for the info.