Preview of Electrolytic Process- Equipment List

[scavenger]

I have been using saltwater and a stainless cathode enclosed in a conductive crucible I got from a local factory. It will dissolve everything I put in it in about 3-4 hours with no toxic fumes. I think this crucible could save a lot of time and sulphuric acid if just doing small amounts of gold plated in your method. If the gold ANODE is enclosed in the crucible the dissolved gold collects in the crucible and u would have less acid to process. I've tried this using saltwater and it works fine.

 

[goldsilverpro]

scavenger,

How strong is the saltwater that you are using? Does it dissolve every thing - gold, copper, etc.? You get no chlorine fumes coming off the anode?

Your rig is very similar to the Shor patent, #4612093. He puts the anode in a .5 micron ceramic porous cup. A big difference is that he is dissolving solid karat gold. He needs much stronger solutions to do this - either full strength HCl or a saturated table salt solution (about 370 grams of salt per liter = 3 pounds per gallon). He starts either solution off with a catalyst of hydrogen peroxide - the equivalent of about 10 drops to 50 drops of 3% H2O2 per gallon of solution. He then drops the gold with sodium bisulfite. I would think that using the stronger solutions, especially the conc. HCl, would produce lots of chlorine gas.

Porous cups were discussed here - on both pages:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=485

What you are doing is very interesting. Please give us more details.

 

[scavenger]

It basically dissolves everything to slime . I just use rock salt. I keep the ph around 6 in the anode bowl and about double that in the cathode bowl. I was going to filter the lot and do a do a HCL wash when it is full then put it to HCL/Cl. I cant smell anything when it is operating. There is obvious hydrogen bubbling of the cathode but zero noticeable fumes. I am interested in finding a better electrolyte to speed things up. Thanks for the info on the peroxide. I'll give it a try.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Are you saying that the cathode solution pH is 12 (twice 6) or that you use twice as much salt in the cathode chamber? For salt, the pH is no indication of the concentration. How many grams of salt, per liter or gallon, do you use or, do you just dump some in?

Are you dissolving pins or what? What final color is the anode solution? I think you're on the right track but, I don't like the slime thing.

 

[scavenger]

I mixed roughly 1 tablespoon salt with 1 liter hot water. I added my gold plated cpu covers anode to the bowl and my stainless rod to the cathode bowl and added more salt while watching the amps. When when they would go no further I stopped adding salt and did a ph test. I dont know much about ph but the amps increased a lot more when I added salt to the cathode bowl.

 

[lazersteve]

Scavenger,

Very interesting stuff you are doing. Salt is one of the items I've been mentally experimenting with also. I'm beginning to look at salt and hydrogen peroxide cleaved by photochemical means to produce hydroxyl ions which in turn will hopefully yield chlorine in situ. Nothing concrete yet, just all in my head and gathering documents for now. I would love to see some photos of your cell design.

Steve

 

[scavenger]

In my first post I mentioned I had tried saltwater in the anode crucible to dissolve the gold plated part. It dissolved the lot to a brown/green gunk not just the gold. If using sulphuric I assume it would just leave the gold mud.

 

[lazersteve]

Odds are the green gunk is a copper compound. When sulfuric is used in the arrangement shown in my videos the only precipitate is a black powder which is the gold. Be sure you get concentrated (90% >) sulfuric acid. Rooto brand drain opener is what I used in the video.

Steve

 

[scavenger]

Here is a pic of my saltwater set up. The cup in the middle is made from fusilica and is used for melting gold via electricity. Molten gold wont stick to it.
I have dissolved gold plated cpu plates in the cup just using saltwater and end up with a mess of green/brown gunk. I added HCL to the gunk and it cleared to reveal some black gunk on the bottom which I presume is the gold as the gold had nowhere else to go. It takes a few hours but I'm sure the process can be sped up by adding a drop or two of peroxide or clorox.

 

[scavenger]

Tried hot saltwater with a few drops of peroxide on a 9 carat ring. After 1 hour I got whats in the picture. I filtered out the debris and added SMB. Brown gold dropped. The copper remained in solution untill I dropped it with aluminium.

 

[lazersteve]

Scavenger,

Looks promising. How much of the gold ring remained after the first hour? Did you weigh your salt before adding it to the electrolyte? You should put together a tutorial summarizing your findings.

Great job!

Steve

 

[aflacglobal]

I though everyone might find this helpful.

The Galvanic Table lists metals in the order of their relative activity in sea water environment.

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/corrosion/galvanic.htm

Ralph

I remembered this from my commercial coatings days.

 

[scavenger]

About 2/3 of the ring was eaten as I was using non stainless clip and could not immerse the entire thing. It was roughly 2 tablespoons rock salt to 1 litre hot water. Seems to work faster hot. Doesn't work as well on pins. I melted what I got from the the ring and it looks great. About 1 gram. I'll try a tutorial after a few more experiments. Thanks for the tips guys.

 

[lazersteve]

Scavenger,

Have you tried increasing the amount of salt? This may make the reaction go quicker due to the increased available chlorine. Of course, you'll draw more current from your supply with more salt.

When you get the process all fleshed out I would like to add it to the reactions list. Would you mind if I do this?


Steve

 

[scavenger]

Thats fine Steve. I just did 8 grams of gold silver mix rolled into a leaf shape. I left it overnight and precipitated this morning. I'll weigh it after its finished dropping.

 

[scavenger]

I mixed up a fresh batch of hot saltwater. More salt this time. 1/4 cup to 1 litre. Now using a stainless bowl (which I hope my wife doesn't notice missing) as negative. I added the same gold/silver and am getting a much faster reaction. More salt is good.

 

[lazersteve]

Scavenger,

This is turning out to be a very useful process. The last thing that I would consider changing is your anode configuration. The clip lead is bound to decay and contaminate the gold bearing solution. Have you tried any high density graphite? You need to keep the current density on the anode below 30 mA / cm2 with graphite to avoid decay in salt water electrolytes. The gold item can most likely be placed in the anode compartment and the chlorine produced will attack it as it's produced. If a connection is required you can simply place the anode on top of the gold material in the bottom of the anode compartment.

I have plenty of high density graphite if you need some to experiment with, PM me your address and I'll donate some to your project.

When you finish tweaking your cell, I'm going to build one like yours. I've done a few tests of my own already with other salt electrolyte combinations using Pt as the anode and graphite as the cathode in an undivided cell. I'll share the details when you complete your tests.

Steve

 

[aflacglobal]

Interesting indeed. :wink:

 

[Paige]

Is this similar to the shor system?

If so, they recommend the gold be held by titanium wire.

If not, I go crawl back into my hole.

Paige

 

[paveprince]

Does the salt water electrolisis method require inquartation. Im still a little confused about inquartation. Is inquartation needed for electrolisis? yesterday i mixed 1 table salt shaker full of table salt with 1 1/2 cups of tap water in a pyrex beaker. i have a plating machine so i used a carbon rod as my cathode. the rod was placed in the salt water solution. i placed a 14ky gold ring on a rhodium plated copper hook into the same solution connected to my other lead . i turned on the machine to i think 9 volts. immediately vigorous bubbles began to form mostly around the carbon rod. i noticed that the ring was releasing a green substance into the solution. i think it cas copper. i dont know. in a period of about 10 to 15 minites i noticed the ring was half desolved. the solution was now bluish green and cloudy . also was a black gunk that mostly stuck to the carbon rod. finally the hook and ring desolved to the point they both fell into the solution so i turned off the machine and retrieved a small piece of what was once a ring. i let the gunk and cloudy stuff settle to the bottom over night . in the morning i filtered the solution into another beaker via a funnel with a paper filter in it . now in the new beaker was a clear light green liguid. i didnt know what to do at this point so i added about a 1/4 cup of sodium bisulfate thinking i would drop gold or any thing for all i cared , but the solution turned to a beautiful gold color. with nothing dropping anywhere. i later found out i needed sulfite not sulfate . im new so have a good laugh at my expence . what did i do ? what do i do next ? I still have everything the gold colored liguid the green gunk in the filter, everything. what does one suggest i do next?