Processing Sterling Silver without nitric acid

[goldsilverpro]

please35.
Can you explain what this means.

I need ultrafine WHITE silver powder for illuminating.

I am at a loss when you refer to illuminating :?: :?:

shyknee.

it mean I have to put around the photo frame.so photo frame will be 24 K silver frame.To attract the customer silver powder MUST be white sparkling as lazersteve had mentioned like diamonds and must be very fine.When you disolve this you cannot feel the grit of silver.Hope I mae it clear.If you can please help me.
robin

I would think you surely can buy silver powder for illuminating from a gold leaf dealer. Or, could you buy silver leaf and crumble it? What about silver cell crystal ground or chopped (blender with water or some solvent?) very fine?

BTW, there is no such thing as 24K silver. Karat only applies to gold.

 

[please35]

please35.
Can you explain what this means.

I need ultrafine WHITE silver powder for illuminating.

I am at a loss when you refer to illuminating :?: :?:

shyknee.

it mean I have to put around the photo frame.so photo frame will be 24 K silver frame.To attract the customer silver powder MUST be white sparkling as lazersteve had mentioned like diamonds and must be very fine.When you disolve this you cannot feel the grit of silver.Hope I mae it clear.If you can please help me.
robin

I would think you surely can buy silver powder for illuminating from a gold leaf dealer. Or, could you buy silver leaf and crumble it? What about silver cell crystal ground or chopped (blender with water or some solvent?) very fine?


BTW, there is no such thing as 24K silver. Karat only applies to gold.

I wish to d it my self so pls suggest me any thread/rgds
robin

 

[shyknee]

What is the material of the frame ? Is it copper or brass ? you just want to make it look like silver plate wright ?

 

[please35]

What is the material of the frame ? Is it copper or brass ? you just want to make it look like silver plate wright ?

its wood I'll paste silver with gum
rgds
robin

 

[shyknee]

You need silver leaf to glue to the wood .
No powder will ever stay shyknee for a long time,
I be-leave you have a plan, whether you can implement it or not is still a mystery .
when you discover what you want to do and do it. I would be interested in taking a peek a your project .
Good Luck

 

[infinatesorrow]

question on the copper and graphite anode, say you had a large copper bar with a thick plate of silver over it, that should work as well as the graphite rod and shorten the process? well maybe not too long since ive thought about electrical theory lets see 3 things are required a cathode , an anode and an electrolyte/ acid of some kind to initiate the movement of electrons. but............. now the graphite rods we use to air arc have a coating of cant remember on them ill have to look at them when i go to work tomorrow but it may also help to expedite the process

 

[element47]

Steve, I assume you sawed up the bowl and ended up with sort of triangular pieces sort of like the petals of a flower. Is there any particular reason why you didn't just use the sawn-up bowl pieces as individual anodes? Yes of course you would have had to replace them periodically, certainly more often than just using the brick you melted the bowl into. I'm just curious as to why you went to the extra step of melting the pieces into a single ingot.

 

[lazersteve]

Steve, I assume you sawed up the bowl and ended up with sort of triangular pieces sort of like the petals of a flower. Is there any particular reason why you didn't just use the sawn-up bowl pieces as individual anodes? Yes of course you would have had to replace them periodically, certainly more often than just using the brick you melted the bowl into. I'm just curious as to why you went to the extra step of melting the pieces into a single ingot.

So that I could set up the cell with the single anode and let it run. Other than that no particular reason.

Steve

 

[jawed]

DEAR SIRS



I am seeking an accurate and detailed definition for the process
of recovering silver from processed X-Ray films.
To get you started I post a nice fee and I will contribute another tip
if the answer comes quick enough.
I intend to purchase a refining machine from CPAC, So you can assume
it is in possession. Also assume very large quantities of Film.
What I have learned so far:
There are two possible processes which interest me, first one is to
run a bleach-fix solution through film and process the solution.
Second option is to lay the film in a bleach solution and then wash it
with water and run it through a fixer solution which is then
desilvered.
What I am trying to do is come up with accurate cost for the entire
process (you don't need to refer to transportation of the film). From
you I don't need the costs of machines and materials, but I do need an
exact chemicals list and machines involved in the process as well as
structures (like a bath for the film to sit in).
Please fill in the details for the two alternatives given above.
Good luck and happy research.

 

[goldsilverpro]

jawed,

Everything you need to know about processing film has been written on this forum. Search! Look especially for articles on the subject by goldsilverpro, Juan Manuel Arcos Frank, or sena. There are others but much of what you want is by these 3 authors.

I know that if I were to help you, I would be the one to establish the consulting fee, not you.

 

[eesakiwi]

Would it work to electroplate the refined silver directly onto the picture frame?

 

[ilikePM]

Hi folks. I have a few questions regarding this technique. First thing I would like to know is it possible to use clean unused 70% Nitric acid and dilute it with RO water to say 50/50 %, and use this as the electrolyte? I would like to simply cut a piece of sterling silver, wrap it with some fine cloth (to absorb slimes) and use it as an anode, then use a stainless steel bowl for the cathode. I have a digital battery charger that allows me to dial in exactly what I need, in this case 3v DC at 1-10 amps (or higher). Will this setup work to grow some nice pure silver crystals? Does the electrolyte have to have an initial silver and copper nitrate dissolved in it for this to work properly?

Eventually when the electrolyte gets saturated with copper nitrate, I would implement Laser Steve's technique of growing copper out of the solution. Essentially I would like to bypass dissolving silver in pure nitric acid, and then cementing with copper, then making an anode with the cemented silver. I would like to use voltage and current to force silver to dissolve in a dilute nitric acid electrolyte. Nitric acid is very expensive, and I would like a system where I can recycle the nitric acid for as long as I can. At the moment I have around a half gallon of 70% nitric acid, and I need to plan how to use it wisely.

 

[freechemist]

@ilikePM,

You ask:

"I have a few questions regarding this technique. First thing I would like to know is it possible to use clean unused 70% Nitric acid and dilute it with RO water to say 50/50 %, and use this as the electrolyte?"

Definitely not. This nitric acid would be much too concentrated. It serves only to dissolve metallic silver (without electrical current), to prepare a concentrated silver nitrate solution, serving as a base for a silver-electrolyte used in a silver cell. Such an electrolyte contains (average-values) about 100-200 g Ag per liter and ca. 6 g HNO₃ per liter. A much higher free HNO₃-concentration leads to redissolution of silver-metal deposited at the cathode.

 

[MysticColby]

another problem: in the copper cell described to produce copper + nitric from copper nitrate, wouldn't any silver deposit before the copper?

 

[ilikePM]

Ok, so the nitric acid must be very diluted then. Can anyone recommend a water to nitric solution? Would 10% nitric acid and the rest water work? From what I understand a week acid solution will be influenced by current to deposit crystals on the other end of the circuit. The key here is a delicate balance between acid concentration and current. I am guessing this balance should equalize on it's own after running the cell for a while.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Ok, so the nitric acid must be very diluted then. Can anyone recommend a water to nitric solution? Would 10% nitric acid and the rest water work? From what I understand a week acid solution will be influenced by current to deposit crystals on the other end of the circuit. The key here is a delicate balance between acid concentration and current. I am guessing this balance should equalize on it's own after running the cell for a while.

The "key" you're missing is the silver concentration in the solution. Just nitric and water won't work. You must start with dissolved silver in the solution to the tune of about 60 to 80g/liter. You can use sterling silver for this. The 7.5%-9% copper in the sterling won't hurt and will actually help produce better crystal. You dissolve the silver in a minimum amount of nitric acid diluted 50/50 with distilled water. If you dissolve the silver in an open top container, it takes about 1.22 ml of nitric plus 1.22ml of distilled water to dissolve a gram of pure silver and about 1.5ml of nitric plus water to dissolve a gram of sterling. If you do this right, you'll probably end up with about 1 or 2% free nitric in it which is OK. For each liter of solution, I would use about 2 - 3 amps. One amp will produce about 3 to 4 grams of silver crystal per hour.

 

[ilikePM]

Ok sounds good. I have 19 grams of sterling silver I will test with. Does the electrolyte even need nitric acid in it? In other words the silver and copper that are in the solution are all that is necessary to conduct the current to the cathode.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Ok sounds good. I have 19 grams of sterling silver I will test with. Does the electrolyte even need nitric acid in it? In other words the silver and copper that are in the solution are all that is necessary to conduct the current to the cathode.

19 grams isn't much. You could only make about a 300-400ml cell from that and that would be stretching things. I have no idea how you're going to cram all the needed things into a cell that small. Also, if you're trying to run sterling through it, the silver dissolved in the solution will be depleted to the point in about a day, or less, so that the copper will start contaminating the crystal. Also, the distance from anode to cathode will be so small that you'll have to remove the crystal about every hour to prevent the electrodes from shorting. I would wait until you have enough silver to make a bigger cell.

Usually I don't worry about the acid. I assume the nitric you're using is at least 67%. Dissolve the 19 grams in about 30 ml of nitric plus an equal amount of distilled water. If it doesn't all dissolve, heat it a bit. If it still doesn't dissolve, add 2 or 3ml more nitric. Do all this in an open top beaker so all the fumes escape. For this amount, I would use at least a 200-250ml beaker so it doesn't foam over. Let it cool and filter the solution to remove any dirt. Dilute it to the working volume with distilled water.

 

[ilikePM]

Yea I realize that 19 grams is nothing, but I have a few ounces of sterling to work with. Since this is my first time doing this I don't want to mess up on a big batch, and I would like to test the process before I go larger. I saw on the youtubes someone who built a very tiny silver cell in a small cup, and that gave me the idea to do this small batch. If I mess up somewhere it wont be a big deal, but if I mess up on a few ounces I would be pretty upset. Thank you for your help!

 

[ilikePM]

Hey GSP. I found this post from you that answers my question earlier regarding using straight sterling. It makes a lot of sense.

"In the 80s/90s, when I had my last refinery, I had one 30gal silver cell operating most of the time. I'm not big on sleeping with silver cells so I usually ran it about 12 hours.day. I probably averaged about 1000 oz/week, mainly from sterling, big contact points, and x-ray film. Most of my silver was cast into 10 and 100 oz bars and sold at a premium. When I first started the refinery, I ran the sterling straight through the cell. Replenishing the cell every couple of days got old fast. I soon switched over to dissolving the sterling and the points and cementing the silver out with copper.

The 2 processes are sort of, six of one, half dozen of another - same amount of acid, same amount of dissolving. In practice, though, semi-purifying the silver before putting it in the cell takes a lot less labor, when all is told, and it is easier."