question abaout IC's and their leggs

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Jon and Bjorn, I agree. What was said may be out of context or misunderstanding but never the less be brought out to the open in order to clarify the situation. It's nice to see these matters handled in a polite and adult manner. Thank You gentlemen! 8)
 
Yes, it was a language problem. We wrote personal mails and cleared this topic.

In fact he was only refering to my posts in Pat's excellent IC thread, while I understood it as a general attack on my presence and approaches on the forum. Correct, I tried all standard methods (only smelting/fluxing I didn't try). That is why I am able to state, that Pat's method to pan first is the absolutely easiest, fastest and best method in small setups. And this is putting me into the position to try to help others to focus on those methods that make most sense for them instead of wasting time and chemicals.

And I really advise everyone who wants to learn panning, should do this in the sunlight. Much easier to see the gold bond wires.
 
Excellent Bjorn! I feel that your input on the forum has always been concise and informative. Your knowledge is invaluable and much appreciated. John. 8) :)
 
Hello everyone,

i've send Björn a PM to avoid any misunderstandings.

to some of my questions:

"Those ICs from cell phones have green or brown epoxy at the bottom, the kind circuit boards are made of. Ugly stuff, you will not want to heat. Further they have tin solder on them."

You mean those little:

http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/samsung-chips.jpg

indeed: i can not see the little circuit board -in- them, very good disguised, why i should incinerate them with other IC's? are the products so ugly...these kind of ic's are very rare in my totalö amount of mixed ic's, i think under 1%!
I "cut" those little tin dropletts on the bottom of ic's like that by a cutter knife and remaining tin after incineration and after panning should be removed easily by HCL leaching of the concentrate? or isn't it easy to get the tin out? how should i process the rare content of special ic's?

"Calculate with 400€ for 20 l waste"

I can dispose my dirty sollutions and other waste for free at our puplic waste yard, very comfortable.

"3 - remove sillicone waffers from middle of IC
4 - crush "

remove silicone waffers and delete them or remove them for step 4, or mean step 4 crush the ashes again...i only ask cause i've read about gold platings on silicone pieces.

Sorry...no time i have to write on later.

regards!
 
Hello,

mhmm, to the cell phone ic: i thought you've meant every ic from cell phones, but these you've linked look almost similary to those i've linked but what is the problem by incinerating them?
the little glass-fiber-tissue content that remains after burning can be collected out by hand and to say it again: these kind of ic makes much more under 1% of the total amount, why should i collect them out?

"That is mainly to have an idea of what I should expect when I do process them"

I only process my collected material onetime in 2-3 years...s long i need to collect 5Kg of all ic's (without cpu and ceramic ic's) for free and so it's indifferent how much gold come from a special kind of ic...i am not interested in making money or working extrem economically.
i will only have some nice lumps.

Alvaschein in the original "mixed ic's" thread by patnor say shortened how i will process my ic's after your argumentations about the rubbish in dissolving every base metal like i want to do at first:

"From my experience I can say following:
I do not pan. First I remove the magnetic parts, sieve the rest to remove the copper fragments and then simply flush repeatedly the incineration-dust in a beaker until I have very few "sand" in it. There may remain some little pieces of base metal. I remove them with nitic acid and flush again until I have removed all acid.
From this point I have the choice of three methods:
1. solve the gold with AR
2. panning
3. dry it for direct melting"

I will use his first way: AR after sieving out copper, flushing ash and magnet for kovar...that's the same as yours recommendations.

Thanks and regards!
 
Hello,

what do you mean about the process of these guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z47ZEyD5zSE

Regards!
 
It's a bit different. He is using NaOH to dissolve the silica and silicon from the ash. That is not needed as it is a lot faster just to pan it. Hot lye is also very dangerous to handle and it creates more waste.

Göran
 
Hello,

-his "panning" technique is very safe, it's almost impossible to loose any fine gold by panning that way
-only big pieces of silicone and metal, the heatsinks, are sieved out, every smaller silicone part and most of the contacts go through the sieve, his argument is that processing them safe the attached bonding wires on the contacts and maybe gold solder
-Al and remaining silicone is dissolved by NaOH and all the contacts, iron like and copper, kovor ones too are dissolved by a mixture of NaHSO4 and H2O2

all in one it seems to be a safe, fast and cheap process, no HNO3, no HCL and no H2SO4 is used!

What is the product of the reaction of H2O2 and NaHSO4?

regards!
 
Sodium bisulfate and hydrogen peroxide reacts to form sodium peroxy-mono sulfate.
NaHSO4 + H2O2 --> NaHSO5 + H2O

(with metals it is probably reducing to Na2SO4 + H + O + H2O, and forming reactive metal sulfates)

Sodium bisulfate is commonly used is place of sulfuric acid, sulfuric has two (acid) hydrogen, where the bisulfate has one H hydrogen.

Basically I see this like an oxidizing type of sulfuric acid, except it is a an acidic salt of the acid, with a higher oxidizing nature? How is that for a non chemist's view?

Concentrated and hot this could be dangerously corrosive, similar to or like the very dangerous corrosive piranha solution (which is even possibly explosive with organic material).

The boiling Hot NaOH caustic soda, another very dangerous material to work with.

Two very dangerous methods, two ways to get harmed or blinded, if you did not know what your doing or you done some little thing wrong.

Do not be fooled by some simple video, and jump out of a safe airplane, into the unknown dangers of what may look safe and simple on film.

I do not see a whole lot about safety in that video, I could not see if he had on safety glasses, or a full face shield, but I could see he did not even know enough about safety to wear gloves.
the methods used for recovery are extremely dangerous, even more so with no safety gear.
I do not see much of any thing safe in that video.

I have seen videos of people who jump off tall sharp walled cliffs. With what looks to me like a bed-sheet on strings, in most of the videos they fly safely. Some hit the cliff but those videos are rare. Believe Me, I would study it a whole lot more before I tied myself to the bed sheet and jumped.
It may not be as simple as it looks, or as safe as it looks. Heck it may not even work that well at all.
 
If you feel, that the proven and propper methods are difficult for you to learn, you should stay away from any experimental methods that have a weak basis of tutorials and members who could help you.

When I read Hoke, then I see one thing being an essential rule: As far as possible remove the crap and concentrate the values by mechanical means, before processing chemically.

The wisdom of this rule I experienced again and again, just like I could read it time after time in the endeavors of other members. But maybe someone needs to have experienced this before he believes.
 
o.k., i've followed your instructions:

over the last 3 feast days i've burned my 4,2Kg of mixed IC's, sieved the ash and flush away the lighter parts of the ash.
magnetic pins goes away by a magnet....copper pins with the sieve (the finer particles of base metals i dissolve in HNO3) and now i end up with 1-2 heaped teaspoons ful of a very fine mix of gold dust, bonding wires, sand (from the fire) and unfortunately lumps of uncompletely burned Ic's, looking like charcoal.

How can i get out the C from the resin?

it is to less C to burn it away ( heating the whole mass in a steel made melting pot)....

i will dissolve these gold in AR with my ashed filter papers from my AP processes and with my ceramic IC's too so it's a must to take out the C!

thanks and regards!
 
hello,

mhmm...nobody seems to have any idea so i think the best way is to melt the gold and burn the rest of the C in one process.

i unfortunately need a big crucible to hold all the qartz particles, the sand where the gold is mixed in.

to bad it is impossible to dissolve the sand (o.k. HF is one option but really not for me).

best regards!
 
hello,

this morning i take a look on my material trhough the microscope,.
very nice wires but the gold dust i've seen with bare eyes isn't dust, it is melted gold, little bowls and some are yellow but others looks more silvery so it is alloyed gold with base metals meybe tin or silver.
that means it is better to solve the rare material instead to melt it and so the unburned particles stand in the way again.

the other stuff i take a look on is the sediment in the big tub in which i store the wash water from the concentration process. and, unfortunately there are some gold present yet.

surprisingly the sieved out inner copper legs of the burned ic's are mixed with some gold bonding wires too...surprisingly cause i've used i coarse screen (a LOT of finer copper parts go trought these sieve and these parts i've dissolve in HNO3) and i sieved in the washing water.

i will sieve these copper stuff with an coarser screen again and dissolve these finer copper in more HNO3 again but the sediment in the "used wash water storage tub" shoes to me it is much more difficult to safe all the gold, even all the bonding wires not to speak about the gold dust.


after these observations

-i have to repeat the washing process with the sediment from the tub very, very carefully again
-and the resulting material, added to the material from the HNO3 leached finer copper parts,
-added to the first and most washing concentrate
-i should dry and spread out a sheet of steel.

these sheet i would glow with an propaneburner to get out all the unburned carbon splinter. After that i can repeat with AR.

are there any suggestions?

thanks and best regards, Frank!
 

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