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recovery of gold from ores with chlorine in 1898

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okieminer said:
Im new to this but Im trying to leach ore with chlorine and hci. My ore has been assayed at 2+ O/T. I have crushed it and ran it over a RP-4 table and have panned it also with no visible gold. Would like to know a possible mix using bleach or swimming pool chlorine. And if you can use sodium bisulfate to take the gold solution back to a powder. Can someone please help me by giving me a mix ratio as in 2 cups of this to 1 cup of this. I know that is really basic but that is what I need. Thank you

What I am about to give you has not been proven by me yet, although it is the best interpretation of methods from the 1890's I can make.

Pour liquid Clorox bleach (6%) into a container, or mix calcium hypochlorite powder (pool chlorine) and water to get a stronger hypochlorite solution. A 15% solution of calcium hypochlorite should be sufficient.

Wearing acid resistant gloves and clothing, respirator with cartridges to filter chlorine gas and safety glasses or face shield, begin adding tiny amounts of HCl to bleach. Be careful, as there will be some reaction as acid meets base. Between additions of HCl, test the pH of the solution with a pH meter. Slowly but surely bring the pH down to 7.5. At pH 7.5, about 50% of the hypochlorite will have become hypochlorous acid (HOCl). If you do not allow the solution to become acidic (- pH 7), chlorine gas production should be kept to a minimum and will not be detectable. However, under pH 5, great amounts of chlorine gas will be made.

It should be pointed out that, due to the instability of HOCl at atmospheric pressure, the above procedure should not be done until you are ready to use the HOCl.

Once the pH is at 7.5, stop adding HCl. At this point, add either sodium chloride or calcium chloride to about 20% of volume. Stir until dissolved. The actual amount of these chlorides is not critical as long as there is enough chloride present to put all of your gold into solution.

You must now have a plastic cylinder capable of holding your ground ore. Any copper or iron in your material that is not tied up as an oxide will spoil this process. This applies to any metal fittings on the cylinder, as well, as they will react with chlorine. The cylinder must be capable of being completely filled with chlorine solution, completely expelling any air inside the cylinder. Any large airspace inside the cylinder will allow the oxygen in the HOCl to be lost, making it into HCl and lowering the pH of the solution. By minimizing any airspace in the cylinder to almost nothing, only a small amount of oxygen lost from the HOCl will be sufficient to raise the pressure of that irspace higher than the maximum pressure at which HOCl can lose oxygen. An alternative is to pump air, through plastic fittings, into the cylinder until a pressure of 60 psi is obtained. This will also keep the HOCl from degrading to HCl but requires a much sturdier cylinder capable of withstanding this elevated pressure. Remember, no metal in contact with chlorine solution unless that metal is lead or titanium.

There must be a way of revolving this cylinder to keep all of the ore in contact with the chlorine solution during the period of leaching. Plastic bars lengthwise inside the cylinder will help to keep the ore mixed with the solution, something like the clay breaking bars inside a trommel keep things moving.

Once all of this is done, revolve the cylinder for four hours, then open the cylinder and immediately (before the pH begins to drop) filter liquid to remove any ore solids. Wash ore with spray to recover any solution holding gold. Gold can then be precipitated from solution using sodium metabisulphite (not sodium bisulphate) or ferrous sulphate. Test ore and solution with stannous chloride to make sure all gold is recovered.


I am at the stage of building a small test unit from 4" ABS plumbing fittings and a 1/2" PVC ball valve. After that comes a platform with rollers on it where the cylinder can be driven by a belt from an electric motor. Although it looks simple, it gets quite complicated, and the real challenge will be scaling this up to a unit capable of processing 20 gallons at a time.

Please keep notes on anything you do and, if you discover anything worthy of note, I would appreciate your sharing this information.

Good luck!
 
Thank you for your help but when it comes to recovery about how much of the sodium metebisulphite do you use and do you use it in dry form or do you mix it with water.
 
Been reading this thread with a lot of interest. Been waiting for the "fresh and relevant information" that you were going to post. Not trying to rush you or anything. I really appreciate the time you take sharing what you've learned.
 
do someone know if gold chloride cement on base metal when solution is basic? could this work on gold plated pins?

edit: i missed that part...
Traveller11 said:
You must now have a plastic cylinder capable of holding your ground ore. Any copper or iron in your material that is not tied up as an oxide will spoil this process. This applies to any metal fittings on the cylinder, as well, as they will react with chlorine.
 
tcpoint said:
Been reading this thread with a lot of interest. Been waiting for the "fresh and relevant information" that you were going to post. Not trying to rush you or anything. I really appreciate the time you take sharing what you've learned.


Sorry about that. I'm so absentminded, I forgot I said I was going to post some more information on this process.

I went on Ebay and ordered everything I need (I hope) to make the electrolysis unit in the diagram a couple of posts back. Two items showed up in the mail today and a third is still coming. The one still coming is an $18 (free shipping) rectangular graphite block (cathode) from Israel. The items that showed up today are an 8" piece of .5" titanium pipe from Latvia for the anode ($8 - $7 shipping) and a 12 volt battery charger from China ($16 - free shipping) that is supposed to put out 12 volts (14.4 volts) but requires 220 VAC at 50 cycles and only registered 7.2 volts DC when I plugged it in to 110 VAC 60 cycle. The stirring part will be the most difficult to make. I think I will just try stirring it by hand at first to see if I get results. A guy could rig up a sheetrock mud mixing paddle on a variable speed drill and mount it on a wooden frame over the cell. Only problem is, the paddle will have to be coated in epoxy to keep the aluminum or steel (even stainless) away from the chlorine solution. I was thinking even a perforated hose in the bottom hooked up to compressed air might keep everything stirred up.

The most interesting thing to see is what will happen to the gold at the cathode. Will it stick to the graphite cathode and plate it or will it fall below the cathode? Some people think it would be a bad thing to have it stick to the cathode but I don't know, at least it would be separated from the sand and mud and, once its only gold and graphite, I could always just scrape the gold off the cathode. Any graphite stuck to the gold would probably burn off during the melt (I hope).

Tonight, I PROMISE I will sit down and explain everything that is going on in this cell. It is more complicated than it looks, although still very safe, and it has just about driven me nuts trying to understand it.
 
Okay, late again but here goes.

The electrolysis of brine (saturated salt water) will, below 50° Celsius, produce sodium hypochlorite (bleach) NaClO. Above 50° Celsius, this electrolysis will produce sodium chlorate (NaClO3).

If the pH of the brine is 7 at the beginning of the electrolysis, it will slowly climb to 8-9 with the production of hypochlorite/chlorate. There is a reason for this. During electrolysis, chlorine gas (Cl2) will deposit at the anode (+) and sodium hydroxide (NaOH) will form at the cathode (-). These will only exist briefly before combining to make hypochlorite (NaClO) and hydrogen (H2), releasing H2 to the atmosphere. HOWEVER, this process is far from perfect, and a minute amount of Cl2 will not combine with the NaOH from the cathode. This Cl2, as it is being produced in molecular form, will easily dissolve in water, giving us two compounds: hypochlorous acid (HClO) and hydrochloric acid (HCl). As hypochlorous acid (HClO) is a very weak acid, it will not do much to lower the pH; not nearly as much as the HCl. But, as there is an equal amount of NaOH forming at the cathode as there is HCl and HClO at the anode, it is obvious that there is more base being formed than there is acid and this will cause the solution pH to rise. HCl and NaOH will neutralize each other and become NaCl and H2O.

Now, as to why pH is so important. Sodium hypochlorite bleach (Clorox) has a pH of over 12, due to NaOH added as a preservative. NaClO at pH +12, is a very stable compound and, for this reason, is a poor oxidizer (disinfectant). Look at this graph for a few moments:

r_wqb_chlorine_graph.gif

OCl is the sodium hypochlorite molecule and HOCl is the hypochlorous acid molecule (HOCl = HClO). As can be seen, lowering the pH of Clorox below 12 will begin to convert some of the NaOCl to HOCl. At pH 7.5, there will exist a 50/50 mixture of hypochlorite/hypochlorous acid. Lowering the pH to 5 or less will begin to cause Cl2 gas to be released. We want HClO, as it is a powerful oxidizer that will put gold into solution as a chloride. BUT, we do not want this solution to become acidic (especially below 5, as the bonds of oxides such as black sand will be broken and iron will go into solution as a chloride) and it is desirable to keep the pH between 7-8. It must be understood that, even with the 50/50 split between hypochlorite (stable) and hypochlorous acid (oxidizer), it is still possible to use up almost 100% of the chlorine as oxidizer. This is because as soon as you consume some of the HClO as oxidizer, some of the NaClO will instantly convert to HClO to maintain the split mandated by whatever pH the solution is at. Think of the hypochlorite as the reserve, and the hypochlorous acid as the workhorse. If the solution pH is 7.5 (see graph) this shift will constantly replace used up HClO until there is virtually no hypochlorite left and still maintain the 50/50 split.

More tonight.
 
Traveller11,

Did you get all the parts from ebay and have a chance to rig something up? Hope you had good results. Curious about how your experiment is coming along.
 
tcpoint said:
Traveller11,

Did you get all the parts from ebay and have a chance to rig something up? Hope you had good results. Curious about how your experiment is coming along.
I too, am following with interest. I hope all is going as planned, as I have some black sands that are looking for a better way to get cleaned of values.
 
Note: HOCl and HClO, plus NaClO and NaOCl are the same formulas, just written differently.

Okay, I got all of the parts from Ebay; the graphite bar from Israel, the titanium pipe from Latvia and the battery charger from China. I have given up on the Chinese battery charger and purchased a good 6/12 volt, variable amperage battery charger from Walmart. I have also decided not to use the titanium pipe as an anode, on the advice of another member, as it turns out that, if the titanium is not platinized, it requires an immense amount of current to use it in electrolysis. What I did was saw the graphite bar in two lengthwise, making two electrodes.

I also found out that modern battery chargers require a battery to be hooked to them before they will begin charging. To facilitate this, I drilled 1/4" holes in the top of each electrode, crimped eye connectors on to the end of two pieces of 12 gauge wire, and connected these to the electrodes with 1/4" stainless steel nuts, bolts and washers. On the other end of the wires, I connected the two alligator clamps salvaged from the Chinese battery charger.

With the battery charger connected to a 12 volt battery and the anode and cathode immersed in an ice cream bucket half filled with heavily salted water and liquefied clay that hopefully contains fine gold, and the alligator clamps from the electrodes connected to the battery terminals, I started the charger on 12 volts at 2 amperes.
Predictably, a large amount of bubbles began surfacing around the negative cathode. A little later, a much smaller number of bubbles were noticeable at the positive anode, and this was to be expected, as well. The bubbles at the cathode (-) are hydrogen, and as they were in the majority, they are proof that the cell is working at an appreciable efficiency and doing the following:

NaCl + H2O + e = NaClO + H2 (NaClO being sodium hypochlorite or bleach)

As the pH of the solution was still likely below 8, about half of the NaClO would instantly convert to the powerful oxidizer hypochlorous acid (HClO) which is, along with NaCl, what we need to put gold into solution as AuCl3.

The much smaller numbers of bubbles rising at the anode (+) were chlorine gas (Cl2) and their existence is proof of the inherent imperfection of this process, small as it is. When the electrolysis of the brine solution first dissociates everything, different components are attracted to the anode and different components to the cathode. Sodium, oxygen and hydrogen are attracted to the cathode and form the strong base sodium hydroxide (NaOH). Chlorine gas is attracted to the anode. In a perfect world, these exist only for a fraction of a second before re-combining to make NaClO (bleach) and H2. When this does not happen, we begin to get a buildup of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) in our solution and, as it is a base, it begins to make the pH rise.

The rising pH should be countered by the chlorine gas (Cl2) at the anode but is not for two reasons. As Cl2 gas evolves, most will dissolve in the surrounding water, giving us the following reaction:

Cl2 + H2O = HCl + HOCl (hydrochloric acid and hypochlorous acid)

The hydrochloric acid (HCl) is a very strong acid and counters the base NaOH in the following formula:

HCl + NaOH = NaCl + H2O (interestingly, right back where we started)

However, the hypochlorous acid (HClO), although a powerful oxidizer, is a very weak acid, and does little to affect the pH of the solution. Making matters worse, the Cl2 lost to the atmosphere does not make any acid and, with the predominance of the NaOH, the pH of the solution will ultimately rise to between 9-10. I think the addition of the stirring paddle shown in the diagram would help here. If the solution is not moving, it would not take long before the water around the anode was saturated with evolving Cl2 and unable to accept more. If the water were moving, there would always be fresh unsaturated water around the anode ready to dissolve Cl2 and diminish the amount of Cl2 escaping to the atmosphere.

Another reason for the constant stirring of the ore, so I am told, has to do with silver chloride (AgCl). Most gold contains some silver and it reacts in this process as well, making AgCl. While stirring the ore will keep it well exposed to our solution, it turns out that AgCl, being an insoluble chloride, tends to deposit a coating on everything in the ore. When this coating covers a particle of gold, it prevents it from contacting the solution. As it is not adhered very strongly, constant movement of the ore and the abrasive action of other particles easily knocks the AgCl from the gold particles.

As this process requires the NaClO to be in its lower pH alter ego state of HClO in order to oxidize gold (see HClO/NaClO chart a few posts back), and the optimum pH seems to be from 7-8 in order to keep about a 50/50 mixture of NaClO/HClO, it is necessary for us to artificially lower the pH as it begins to rise. To do this, we need a good pH tester (one decimal) to monitor the pH of the solution. If it does rise above 8, minute additions of HCl or even acetic acid (vinegar) are enough to bring it back to the desired level, closer to neutral. One important thing, we do not want this solution to become acidic, and a pH of 6 is about as far as we dare stray. Any lower, and two things occur. At a pH of 5, our solution will begin to give up great amounts of chlorine gas (Cl2). It will also be acidic enough to break the oxygen/base metal bonds of any oxides in our ore. In particular, the acidic solution will begin to break up the oxides hematite and magnetite, in our black sands, and the liberated iron will immediately go into solution INSTEAD of gold. This last part cannot be stated strongly enough.

The big question still remains, will the gold, once liberated at the cathode, merely fall to the bottom below the cathode, or will it plate out and adhere to the graphite cathode? I have had it suggested that both will happen but, of course, only one is possible. To this end, I have written to a graduate student at UBC who, along with his professor, was involved in an artisanal miners program dedicated to eradicating mercury from Third World artisanal mining operations. This electrolytic process was part of that program, and I believe one or both of them actually saw a prototype in action, and might be able to tell us where the gold ends up. Believe it or not, this electrolytic process was originally designed to recover mercury from placer mining tailings. While it worked exceptionally well at recovering mercury, the tailings, unbeknownst to the operators, also contained a great amount of ultra fine gold that the mercury had been unable to amalgamate with, and this electrolysis process also recovered 95% of that gold. Another question I have is, if the AuCl3 is broken up at the cathode, liberating Cl2 to make more HClO, and the gold does NOT adhere to the cathode, what stops the liberated gold from simply re-reacting with more HClO to make yet more AuCl3?

One thing for sure, I am not only making chlorine gas; I am also making bleach. Shortly after turning the current on, I moved the anode and ended up sticking my fingers into the solution. Because of the almost neutral pH, there was no stinging or burning but I could definitely smell Clorox on my fingers.

I think the next step is to construct a proper bracket to hold the electrodes, followed by some sort of stirring mechanism to keep the ore and solution in motion. As I said before, any stirring mechanism in contact with the solution either must be made from plastic or, if made from steel or aluminum, coated with plastic to keep these base metals out of contact with the chlorine solution. Even stainless steel is not immune to chlorine. The only affordable metal one could use would be titanium, and I suppose a paddle made from titanium pipe and blades could be fashioned; either fastened together with titanium screws or bolts or welded with titanium welding rod (is there such a thing?). Another thing to do is to begin monitoring the solution pH to begin to get an idea of how often it is necessary to intervene and lower the pH.

It may be necessary to build an isolation chamber for the cathode employing anion exchange membranes, if it turns out the gold does not plate onto the cathode. These membranes would allow the passage of AuCl3, Cl2 and NaOH but prevent gold and ore from re-mixing. Once again, AgCl coating the membranes could become a problem.

Slow process but, hopefully there is progress being made here.

Bye for now.
 
long time lurker here, much respect to the ladies and gentlemen of the forum are due first. looking forward to more on this!
 
I received an email back from my friend at UBC and it brings up some interesting points. Here it is:

"Bob,


Good to hear from you and even better to hear that you are still working on this and that your property is better that you thought.

I must say your email was a wonderful read. For starters it seems that your science and understanding is spot on. As for where the gold ends up (at least from my trials) the short answer is that it ended up in both the solution and on the cathode.

But the longer answer is more interesting.

I've attached a picture of the setup I was using while trying to get proof of concept for research funding. The 'hotplate' is only a magnetic stirrer. The anode and cathode are simple rectangle graphite electrodes - nothing special. As you can see, the slurry just stirs about, and in my case it was pretty vigorous. This means that any deposition onto the cathode had to contend with this abrasive factor.

GetAttachment.jpg


Overall gold dissolution was very high (>75). As measured by tails. Gold did remain in the clear/pregnant solution and was about 50% of the overall Au dissolution, meaning that the rest was on the cathode. Unfortunately I was not able to optimize the transfer of Au onto the cathode or figure out what was causing the Au to stay in solution and not on the cathode. I would guess that slowing the very turbulent flow I had at the cathode (by whatever means necessary) would be a good first step. But like you said, you'll have to keep in mind the ion-exchange rate through whatever barrier you have and in a direct slurry that can be challenging. With that in mind, I don think the practical answer lies with anionic barriers while using a slurry. I do know that cathode shape design is key to this, but never got into that aspect of things. My first guess however was a riffled cathode that allowed for areas where the solution could slow down... think the surface of a golf ball or something wafers.



Gold was indeed plated to the cathode and at a grade 2-3 times that of the ore in a sludge like layer about 1/10th the thickness of the cathode itself. Once done, I simply pulverized the loaded cathode and sent it to assay. For a large version you could directly smelt the Au-cathode in this manner too. Keep in mind that although I was not able to recover all the Au directly onto the cathode, filtering the solids out of the final pregnant leach and then using a recovery method like Merrill-Crowe (Zinc shavings and the pregnant leach under vacuum) could be an easy way to recovery what was not picked up by the cathode. You'd have to test the reactivity of Zn with a pregnant leach, but that would be pretty easy to test out.



I would also encourage you to took at other halides in combination with salt. For example, Bromine gold chemistry is also known within gold extraction but finding research on combination halide electrolysis is pretty rare. Combinations of two halides in a electrolytic leach could help each other in acting as intermediary steps in gold dissolution or in maintaining Au in solution. It's something worth trying out in tests should you ever get a working prototype. Given what you were able to find out on your own, you may stumble across papers/info on these ideas. If you do, I would love to have a copy of whatever you find.



Let me know if that answers your questions and keep them coming!



Cheers,

Adrian"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, I had heard of magnetic stirrers before but had no idea what they were. What a simple but amazing concept! With any luck, the stirrer could be scaled up somewhat for a larger container.

I wrote back and asked him if the "clear/pregnant solution" was "clear" as in a glass of water or whether it was a "clear" golden brown solution (auric chloride). I am still not sure if the gold goes into solution as auric chloride (AuCl3, Au2Cl6) or terachloroaurate (AuCl4) and what effect this has on the appearance of gold in solution.
 
I got to thinking about the use of a magnetic stirrer and it occurred to me this could present a small problem; one often encountered by placer miners attempting to separate fine gold and black sand.

As the magnetite portion of black sand is highly magnetic, it will be attracted to the magnetic components of the magnetic stirrer. This would be okay, if it were not for the fact that magnetite particles being attracted by a magnet have a tendency to bulldoze fine gold particles ahead of them. These get trapped on the magnet and often rob the miner of gold as the fine particles will end up in the tailings.

However, as the magnetic stirrer will be keeping the chlorine solution and the rest of the ore in motion, it may be that the trapped gold particles will still be exposed to the chlorine solution. If not, a plastic or epoxy coated metal stir paddle connected to a motor should keep things stirred. I was also thinking of adding, at the bottom of the tank, a plastic perforated air line. By feeding compressed air through this and aiming the perforations downward, the bottom of the tank would be scoured and all of the ore and chlorine solution would be kept in motion.
 
Hi T, a few thoughts on your last 2 msgs.

Agitation: I don't think vigorous agitation (with magnetic/mechanical impellor or bubbles) is necessary. Slow turning of a drum (even manually) should sufficiently expose all ore surfaces to the electrolyte (at less cost and equipment).

Abrasion: If abrasion of the cathode is a possible concern, then perhaps a cell (separate from the ore) is the way to go. I think the Shor System uses something like this. Take a look also at the Efftech thread at:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=18399

In addition to mentioning a "divided cell" and "strict pH control", it also claims to (very) effectively strip solutions of dissolved metal ions - a point that you mention is of concern in one of your msgs above.

Also note the downloadable pdf's, particularly the technical one.
 
Gratilla said:
Hi T, a few thoughts on your last 2 msgs.

Agitation: I don't think vigorous agitation (with magnetic/mechanical impellor or bubbles) is necessary. Slow turning of a drum (even manually) should sufficiently expose all ore surfaces to the electrolyte (at less cost and equipment).

Abrasion: If abrasion of the cathode is a possible concern, then perhaps a cell (separate from the ore) is the way to go. I think the Shor System uses something like this. Take a look also at the Efftech thread at:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=18399

In addition to mentioning a "divided cell" and "strict pH control", it also claims to (very) effectively strip solutions of dissolved metal ions - a point that you mention is of concern in one of your msgs above.

Also note the downloadable pdf's, particularly the technical one.

Hi Gratilla

This is one of the enigmas of this setup. As there is such limited information available on it, it is difficult to determine if the agitation is necessary to expose all of the ore to the electrolyte, or to assure that chlorine gas from the anode and sodium hydroxide from the cathode are adequately mixed to produce the hypochlorite and chlorates or if the agitation is necessary mainly to abrade the buildup of silver chloride on particles of gold that would prevent the chlorine from contacting said gold particle. I have seen all three points argued well.

Also, the logistics of installing an anode and cathode in a revolving drum may be somewhat insurmountable, although I am open to suggestions if you happen to have a design in mind.
 
Interesting article on the Efftech system. I wonder how ell it could be applied to a situation where the main feed has high levels of black sands (iron oxides), considering that, from one of their diagrams, there appears to be a cell filled with hydrochloric acid.

I think I will write to them to obtain their opinion on the matter. I will share with the forum any information I obtain.
 
The tried, tested (and simple) method of transferring electrical charge to rotating systems is with a couple of (spring-loaded) graphite bushes; take a look inside an electric drill or angle grinder for an example. Having said that though, the large circular cyanidation tanks in this area all use impellors.

I wasn't suggesting that the Efftech system was your solution, but that:
a) It confirmed one or two of your findings ie strict pH control (different electrolyte, different pH), and
b) It claimed solutions to open "problems" you are still looking at ie electrolyte scrubbing. Even if you might not have access to (proprietary) details, the fact that there are solutions is of great help, IMO. The (high surface area) carbon mesh/foam/fabric cathode also looks interesting. Doesn't one of our Mods offer this stuff on his website?
 

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