Reducing Silver Chloride

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Harold_V said:
Silver would be a problem in cost and fabrication, and not really necessary. Stainless is very acceptable...

Harold, in this old message thread on "Reducing Silver Chloride", you posted a design for a small silver cell. Apparently a number of people liked the design, but unfortunately the link is broken. This was the original link:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=381
Silver cell-1.jpg
(24.64 KiB) Downloaded 913 times

Would you mind reposting the design, or just sending it to me?

As an aside, I'm a new member, so I spent about 3 months reading old messages and the various texts. In fact, I've produced a hypertext version of Hoke's book that I might release sometime in the new year. Anyway, reading so many old messages, one can't help notice how many bad links there are on this website.

When I ran a website 15 years ago I used a broken link detector. It crawled the site and issued a report on all bad links. I just googled "broken link detector" and there are lots to choose from. Some are free and others are part of commercial packages that generate all sorts of statistics about what page people go to, how long they stay, etc.

Merry Christmas
--
Bob
 
Tub Buster said:
Harold_V said:
Silver would be a problem in cost and fabrication, and not really necessary. Stainless is very acceptable...

Harold, in this old message thread on "Reducing Silver Chloride", you posted a design for a small silver cell. Apparently a number of people liked the design, but unfortunately the link is broken. Would you mind reposting the design, or just sending it to me?

Here's a picture of the cell in question. It's made of 1/16" thick 304 stainless, with welded corners. After welding, it was electropolished. A lug was welded to the back side to provide an attachment point, as the entire cell becomes the cathode. Anode contact was a silver "candlestick". Anode basket made entirely of polypropylene (I worked as a machinist when the cell was built). Note the two covers for the ends of the cell, intended to keep contamination (dust) out.

The strange looking device (the cross piece) is a template for cutting filters for the anode basket. They were cut from heavy filter material and sewn at the corners. Held in place by polypropylene clips.

Sloping sides are desirable, but they create their own problems. I chose to use 4" wide vinyl tape to isolate the sides, as they quickly grow crystals to the anode and create a short. The tape solved the problem.

I'm open to questions if you have any.

Harold
 

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Harold_V said:
I'm open to questions if you have any.
Thank you. Do you recall the dimensions? You mentioned the anode was about 9" square.
Did you calculate the cathode surface area?
 
I don't recall the dimensions, but they are not critical. The only pertinent considerations are the anode size and anode/cathode spacing. Even spacing isn't critical, as you'll overcome pretty much any issues (unless you don't have enough spacing) by varying voltage. If memory serves, the target voltage is what it takes to achieve 25 amps/square foot of anode. I chose to operate lower (about 15 amps/square foot), which provided a longer interval between times knocking down the crystals. I ran my cell steady, 24 hours, until I had processed all silver at the ready. I often ran it for a couple months steady.

You'd be best served to procure a copy of the book written by Butts & Coxe, which discusses silver cells and silver processing extensively. I do not recall the title, but do a search and it will be obvious.

Food for thought. The typical electrolyte consists of some copper in solution. I chose to use none, as it was introduced fast enough simply by running the cell, as silver recovered by cementation with copper will always contain traces of copper.

You may read that the lack of copper alters the deposit, which is true---but the reports made by at least of those who didn't use copper free electrolyte are not correct. I parted tens of thousands of ounces of silver, always starting with pure silver electrolyte. My reason was simple. I got more silver from each lot processed, because the amount of copper in solution is what limits the useful life of electrolyte. The net result (ALWAYS) of not including copper at the outset was a film of solidly adhering silver--not crystals. That was followed by the formation of dense crystals, as the copper content rose. When content was high enough, the crystals, which had previously been rigidly fastened to the cell, now were very easy to remove. Continued operation caused a further rise in copper content, at which time the deposited silver began growing as thin threads. This reaction was characteristic of all my runs, so I had to conclude that copper aids in the stripping of crystals, but should not be allowed to accumulate beyond reasonable limits, as once it's too high, copper co-deposits with the silver, just as palladium will if it accumulates in the system. Armed with this thought, the moment thin threads started forming, I cleaned out the cell and replaced the electrolyte. I also started with a new anode, which was simply placed on top of what remained of the previous anode. As a measure of purity, I'd use the last silver harvested to make the next electrolyte. If it was free of blue coloration, I knew the silver was not contaminated with copper.

I recommend no less than 2" clearance from the anode surface to any surfaces of the cathode. The more you provide, the longer the cell can operate without attention. It is very important that crystals not be allowed to grow near the anode basket, as the resulting arcing will perforate the filter and contaminate the already processed silver.

What I recommend, if you're interested in parting silver, is to study until you understand the principles involved, then make a setup and pursue the operation of the cell. Consider your first run a learning experience, and that you may make mistakes. It's easy enough to re-process the resulting silver, which can be as simple as placing the harvested crystals back in the anode basket, even without melting.

Harold
 
The moderators would like to thank all of the members that contributed to the original thread that this post was based on, as well as those that asked questions showing what was missing. Because of the extra length and interest in this thread we have created the above consolidated version making for an easier read. We encourage all members to read, comment, and ask questions in the original thread, Reducing Silver Chloride.

The moderators have edited some posts in this thread that made reference to posts that were deleted. We strive to make these Library threads as concise as possible by deleting posts that do not add information to the original topic. All of the original posts are still preserved in the thread listed above.

The Library threads should not be considered to constitute a complete education. Instead, they're more like reading a single book on the subject of recovery and refining. There is so much more information on the forum, and it is impossible to include it all in these condensed threads. Members are strongly encouraged to read the rest of the forum to round out their education.

For those who prefer a printed copy, a pdf file of this thread is provided below.
 

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