Some little problems on Memory Ram Yields
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bmgold2
Well-known member
skullsbox01
Member
Straight to AR would be my LAST choice for edge fingers but at least you'll gain some more experience :roll:
Geo
Well-known member
test, test, test and test again. never make a move without testing to make sure you know where your gold is. when you dissolve gold, test. when you filter the solution, test. when you add a chemical, test. when the drop is complete, test. test your washes. test your rinses. test everything. how will you know theres gold in solution? because you saw it dissolve? the forum is full of topics titled "where is my gold". people have followed a process to the end only to find that they tossed their gold with the wash water. if you are worried about the drops of solution wasted on testing, why are you even trying to refine in the first place. each test is a confirmation, its either there or its not. plus, you keep the tested solution and add it to your stock pot.
by the way, the visible gold on ram sticks is roughly 1/3 of the gold available. count the legs on one chip. each leg represents one gold bonding wire.
i have always said, its ok to ask what someone else's yield is but the best way to know what YOU can expect is to get your own yield data. the process i use from start to finish will never match what your process is because of variables. different chemicals, different equipment, different process times and even the difference in weather can effect yield data.
by the way, the visible gold on ram sticks is roughly 1/3 of the gold available. count the legs on one chip. each leg represents one gold bonding wire.
i have always said, its ok to ask what someone else's yield is but the best way to know what YOU can expect is to get your own yield data. the process i use from start to finish will never match what your process is because of variables. different chemicals, different equipment, different process times and even the difference in weather can effect yield data.
bmgold2
Well-known member
I'll give it a shot but keep in mind that I have not gotten any solid gold yet from all my attempts so maybe someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.
First, test your solution with stannous chloride to make sure you actually dissolved your gold. If you did, you still have a lot of copper and probably other contaminants mixed in.
Next, I would put a piece of copper in the solution to cement the gold back out of the solution and then filter out anything that precipitates out. Check the solution again to make sure all the gold has left the solution.
Now, re-refine the precipitated powder to clean it again and get rid of any more copper or other non-PM's in it. You probably have to incinerate (heat to glowing but not melt) the powder to get rid of any left over nitrates that could redissolve the gold while trying to clean the base metals out. I'd try HCl or AP to dissolve the base metals.
Once that is done, wash the precipitates with distilled water (maybe hot water) to remove as much base metals as possible then redissolve the gold with AR or acid/bleach and Edited to add: you might want to add a few drops of sulfuric acid to drop any lead out then filter before precipitating the gold back out. --- Test a few drops of the solution with some salt water or HCl in case there was any silver included then precipitate the gold back out with SMB or whatever precipitant you use.
From what I understand (still not a lot), you should try to get rid of the base metals before you dissolve your gold but it's too late for that with this batch.
Good luck and remember, this is just my own thoughts and they could be wrong. Either study the processes yourself or wait to see if anyone else corrects me before going much further. Don't throw anything out until you are sure it doesn't contain any values. Study about the wastes to find out safe ways to dispose of them. Don't dump them down the toilet or on the ground.
First, test your solution with stannous chloride to make sure you actually dissolved your gold. If you did, you still have a lot of copper and probably other contaminants mixed in.
Next, I would put a piece of copper in the solution to cement the gold back out of the solution and then filter out anything that precipitates out. Check the solution again to make sure all the gold has left the solution.
Now, re-refine the precipitated powder to clean it again and get rid of any more copper or other non-PM's in it. You probably have to incinerate (heat to glowing but not melt) the powder to get rid of any left over nitrates that could redissolve the gold while trying to clean the base metals out. I'd try HCl or AP to dissolve the base metals.
Once that is done, wash the precipitates with distilled water (maybe hot water) to remove as much base metals as possible then redissolve the gold with AR or acid/bleach and Edited to add: you might want to add a few drops of sulfuric acid to drop any lead out then filter before precipitating the gold back out. --- Test a few drops of the solution with some salt water or HCl in case there was any silver included then precipitate the gold back out with SMB or whatever precipitant you use.
From what I understand (still not a lot), you should try to get rid of the base metals before you dissolve your gold but it's too late for that with this batch.
Good luck and remember, this is just my own thoughts and they could be wrong. Either study the processes yourself or wait to see if anyone else corrects me before going much further. Don't throw anything out until you are sure it doesn't contain any values. Study about the wastes to find out safe ways to dispose of them. Don't dump them down the toilet or on the ground.
bswartzwelder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
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You say you have read the forum, but nowhere in your post did you mention using stannous chloride to test your solutions. Perhaps you didn't precipitate all the gold and have some left in your solutions. Did you save them? I don't remember who said it but "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" may be true here.
If you have read the forum, you would have seen numerous postings saying the best way to process fingers is with AP. Then process the gold with AR , poorman's AR or acid/Chlorox. Deviating from the tried and true methods may end up costing you some gold.
You didn't have a large batch to start out with, so any losses or inaccurate calculations could explain the lower than average yield.
If you have read the forum, you would have seen numerous postings saying the best way to process fingers is with AP. Then process the gold with AR , poorman's AR or acid/Chlorox. Deviating from the tried and true methods may end up costing you some gold.
You didn't have a large batch to start out with, so any losses or inaccurate calculations could explain the lower than average yield.
skullsbox01
Member
Geo, the best thing to do if we want know something, is do it. But if i process 2kg of memories ram, and my yield is most low of the normal the only way is ask.
About the general Ram yield, i don't believe that the most of gold is present in the IC chip.
now i'm adding 0,7g of SMB in the solution (agitated with magnetic stirrer), tomorrow i will know the yield. (in italy are the 18.19) 8)
I will update you.
thanks to all
About the general Ram yield, i don't believe that the most of gold is present in the IC chip.
now i'm adding 0,7g of SMB in the solution (agitated with magnetic stirrer), tomorrow i will know the yield. (in italy are the 18.19) 8)
I will update you.
thanks to all
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solar_plasma
Well-known member
If you know it better, then why you ask?! Do you only count on those answers, that tell you, what you want to hear?
No, you willl not. You will only see, how much black powder you will get after a day from a dirty AR that even might have excess oxidizer and that little gold in relation to the amount of liquid, that it will take long time to settle. Do you at least have some stannous and gold standard solution at hand? It should make me wonder.
Update yourself by reading HOKE and the forum and keep your chemicals safely until you know what you are doing / where your gold is.
This is at least my last post to you until I can see, that you are willing to learn.
bmgold2
Well-known member
skullsbox01 said:
I've tried many short cuts to speed up the process to seeing that first bead of gold. As I said, I still don't have any gold to show for my work. Thinking that I could get away without shooting for "PURE GOLD" I have not been able to get anything that even looks like gold. Copper oxidises easily when you try to melt it.
Some of us have to learn the hard way. I'm including myself in that comment. Good luck!
skullsbox01 said:In this mode i avoid more steps, the gold is dissolved in the first step. After dissolution, the solution will filtered and after the gold will be drop downed with SMB. The estimated yield is 1gram, then i use 0,7 grams of SMB
If you anticipate 1 gram of gold you should use slightly MORE than 1 gram of SMB, not less. Especially since you'll be precipitating from a very dirty solution. I would use 1.3 grams of SMB. If you have not used up all the nitric you might need substantially more SMB to overcome it.
niteliteone
Well-known member
I wonder how much solder was dissolved into that AR solution with the gold fingers :shock:
That could be a good (bad) explanation of where the gold went :roll:
That could be a good (bad) explanation of where the gold went :roll:
Circuit boards in AR... big mistake! I can already tell you where some of your gold is. It's sitting inside the fiber boards, cemented onto the internal copper traces.
I did the mistake of processing two fiber processors together with a couple of ceramic ones and the yield was really low. The copper in the internal layers of the fiber CPU:s cemented the gold back from the AR solution and it was only by luck I found it, cemented gold doesn't look like shiny gold.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=17697
The CPU:s sits on a tray, reminding me of my mistake and waiting for incineration and reprocessing in the summer.
Göran
I did the mistake of processing two fiber processors together with a couple of ceramic ones and the yield was really low. The copper in the internal layers of the fiber CPU:s cemented the gold back from the AR solution and it was only by luck I found it, cemented gold doesn't look like shiny gold.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=17697
The CPU:s sits on a tray, reminding me of my mistake and waiting for incineration and reprocessing in the summer.
Göran
Ok i got questions..
So what does Muriatic + Bleach do ?
Also the diff with Muriatic and Peroxide mix?
im still a a bit confused with some mixtures as to what they necessary do to either pins or the boards.
lso, its hard to find nitric and sulfuric acid in Cebu. im still looking for good substitutes.
Any help pls?? thanks
So what does Muriatic + Bleach do ?
Also the diff with Muriatic and Peroxide mix?
im still a a bit confused with some mixtures as to what they necessary do to either pins or the boards.
lso, its hard to find nitric and sulfuric acid in Cebu. im still looking for good substitutes.
Any help pls?? thanks
Geo
Well-known member
Daddie said:Ok i got questions..
So what does Muriatic + Bleach do ?
Also the diff with Muriatic and Peroxide mix?
im still a a bit confused with some mixtures as to what they necessary do to either pins or the boards.
lso, its hard to find nitric and sulfuric acid in Cebu. im still looking for good substitutes.
Any help pls?? thanks
Look here http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873
skullsbox01
Member
niteliteone
Well-known member
Much better this time
A few more batches and you should be getting the max possible 8)
Just be sure you do everything possible to be sure tin (from solder and plated traces) is never dissolved in the same solution as the gold, as it hides the gold from recovery and if you don't know where it is, you will lose it like most do :shock:
A few more batches and you should be getting the max possible 8)
Just be sure you do everything possible to be sure tin (from solder and plated traces) is never dissolved in the same solution as the gold, as it hides the gold from recovery and if you don't know where it is, you will lose it like most do :shock:
solar_plasma
Well-known member
Any update?
kjavanb123
Well-known member
skullsbox01 said:Hi People,
i have processed 2kg of ram memories, i have cut the fingers and i have obtained 175 grams.
The fingers have been processed for first step in solution with 50% HNO3 and 50% H2O.
After this process i have filtered the gold, and i have processed it in AR.
After dissolution, i have used SMB to drop down the gold.
The yield of this process for 2Kg of memory Ram have been only 0,37 grams.
I have read on this forum that the yield of memory Ram is around 0,5 grams for kilo, but in my case the yield is 0,18grams for kilo.
Where is my error?
(in the pictures there are the materials that i have worked and the gold that i have obtained).
Thanks
Hi
I like to add my finding on processing gold finger ram sticks. I ran 6.5kg of all gold plated ram sticks in hcl and got 1.7kg bga chips, 76g SMDs and 4.8kg bare boards with gold plating.
From that 4.8kg depopulated ram sticks which were dipped in lye solution to remove or neturlize the hcl from them, then were treated with nitric, collected the tiny flakes of gold and some meta stannic mud, I moved it to a beaker and did AR, filtered the solution, and dropped gold using zinc powder.
I cupeled that powder and got 0.18g bead from 4.8kg depopulated ram sticks, which meant the yield from gold plating of 1kg ram sticks was 0.03g per kg, so I am curios about the numbers in this post 0.5g per kg from the fingers alone?
Here are few pictures of my process described above.
Martijn
Well-known member
Hi, why cement on zinc after AR and not on copper? Leave those base metals in solution! Saves on lead in the cupel.
Tin is below zinc in the reactivity series. Why use zinc?
GLOVES??!??!?? You like taking risks with your lifespan and health?
You replied to a post from 2014, in which is described a process of leaching RAM fingers in HNO3 and H2O2? Which process is that?
AP misunderstood perhaps? Try not to copy questionable and old info.
It seems to me you continued with this 'less conventional' approach.
Close cut RAM fingers should not have any tin, so going to AP instead of the HCL / NaOh dip / HNO3 before AR would make more sense imo? Unless you have free acids available and like waste treatment a lot...
Referring to the yields, I think the OP dissolved most of his gold in the initial leach.
And threw out the baby with the bathwater.
How well did you wash your cemented powder before cupelling? Did you incinerate before cupelling? Was there any HCL left in there? Did your gold go up in smoke? Not sure...
Did you blow the fine cemented powder from underneath the sheet of lead in your furnace? Possibly.
First get you process steps right, then worry about yields.
To minimize future losses, experiment on small amounts, fine tune, get experience, and then size up the batches.
Martijn.
Tin is below zinc in the reactivity series. Why use zinc?
GLOVES??!??!?? You like taking risks with your lifespan and health?
You replied to a post from 2014, in which is described a process of leaching RAM fingers in HNO3 and H2O2? Which process is that?
AP misunderstood perhaps? Try not to copy questionable and old info.
It seems to me you continued with this 'less conventional' approach.
Close cut RAM fingers should not have any tin, so going to AP instead of the HCL / NaOh dip / HNO3 before AR would make more sense imo? Unless you have free acids available and like waste treatment a lot...
Referring to the yields, I think the OP dissolved most of his gold in the initial leach.
And threw out the baby with the bathwater.
How well did you wash your cemented powder before cupelling? Did you incinerate before cupelling? Was there any HCL left in there? Did your gold go up in smoke? Not sure...
Did you blow the fine cemented powder from underneath the sheet of lead in your furnace? Possibly.
First get you process steps right, then worry about yields.
To minimize future losses, experiment on small amounts, fine tune, get experience, and then size up the batches.
Martijn.
