I know HF would work, but that is not recommended at all!HF would probably work, but I’m looking for non-kill-you-instantly methods
***** The Platinumill Exposed and on Trial *****
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Yeah, that’s the point of no return. I’ve heard one drop on your hand can kill you (maybe that’s a little extreme).
Hoke didn’t delve deep into the safety issues about it though
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She was a product of her time, so safety was not a big concern.Yeah, that’s the point of no return. I’ve heard one drop on your hand can kill you (maybe that’s a little extreme).
Hoke didn’t delve deep into the safety issues about it though
Good to see you removed your plasma theories, but when you edit a post, leave a remark at the end that it is edited.
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Safety is a big concern for all, and is not to be taken lightly with all chemicals we use. That being said, anybody who deals with the PGM group of metals, probably would have an understanding of the proper use and conditions in which it should be handled. yes, I was thinking HF, but BAGross85 responded more promptly.
If you read again you will see I commented C.M. Hokes book and the practices at her time.
Why is it good I removed them?
I think it will work. The chemistry is good, it’s the particle physics that are the problem.
What do you know about plasma?
Do you think plasma could pass a solid after it's generation and acceleration?
I think the word “plasma” doesn’t fit the description. That isn’t quite the state of matter I think that’s being utilized. Hence, my edit. However, finely dividing gas particles further, immediately prior to introduction to the substrate, should in theory work.
I read though a patent that demonstrated this type of process, but what jumped out at me was the fact that the acid was boiled up through a tube, where it came into contact with a material with 50-100 hole/cm2. The gaseous acid diffuses though, and immediately passes through the substrate. The gaseous acid is condensed at the top of the column, where it drips back down.
The guy successfully (claims) he recovered 98% of Pt, Pd, and 93% of Rh with this method, on an aftermarket, and on an OEM. All of it was recovered by cementing with aluminum powder, then he refers to the “art” of refining to process from there. Perhaps the best part, is only around 500mL of liquid was employed on each converter. Which is even better.
I get it that it’s more profitable to stack up 500 and send it to a refinery. That’s obviously the way to go…But that would require a capital investment of around $50,000, plus the shipping and such. And then there’s the “derocking” fees
Can you point to this article?I think the word “plasma” doesn’t fit the description. That isn’t quite the state of matter I think that’s being utilized. Hence, my edit. However, finely dividing gas particles further, immediately prior to introduction to the substrate, should in theory work.
I read though a patent that demonstrated this type of process, but what jumped out at me was the fact that the acid was boiled up through a tube, where it came into contact with a material with 50-100 hole/cm2. The gaseous acid diffuses though, and immediately passes through the substrate. The gaseous acid is condensed at the top of the column, where it drips back down.
The guy successfully (claims) he recovered 98% of Pt, Pd, and 93% of Rh with this method, on an aftermarket, and on an OEM. All of it was recovered by cementing with aluminum powder, then he refers to the “art” of refining to process from there. Perhaps the best part, is only around 500mL of liquid was employed on each converter. Which is even better.
I get it that it’s more profitable to stack up 500 and send it to a refinery. That’s obviously the way to go…But that would require a capital investment of around $50,000, plus the shipping and such. And then there’s the “derocking” fees
The gas is the problem(challenge) as the PGMs are acting as catalysts and there will be a protecting gas bubble protecting them.
That is why leaching under pressure is beneficial.
Edit for precision.
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2003010346A2/en
Edit for additional info:
This guy uses a titanium container, which I don’t understand why it doesn’t dissolve. I also don’t think he mentions the composition of the material that’s used to diffuse the gas across, just that it’s porous between 50-100 holes per cm
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I'm on the road just now, I'll have a look later.
Hey, I found the explanation for the improper “plasma” definition I gave!
Gas has a “continuum”…meaning, it can be divided over and over and over, down to the smallest scale. So no, it’s not plasma that’s being produced: it’s smaller and smaller molecules of the acids’ gases—-not plasma…smaller molecules related to the theory of fluid continuum.
Still..I don’t understand why in this guy’s patented invention, the conglomerate of liquid/gaseous HCL, HNO3, and H2O2 is dissolving the PGMs and base metals in the cat, but not the titanium container. Is the container just thick enough to resist the acids throughout 2 hours of lixiviation? I was under the impression that Hot, concentrated HCL with the other aforementioned constituents would dissolve titanium metal.
This one is quite confusing.
It may be a Titanium reactor but it also says
Which means Teflon (PTFE)
Nitric and Peroxide will probably decompose quite quickly in these conditions.
The principle resembles a Soxhlet extractor minus the leeching chamber.
Teflon mesh is like $1,500 for a tiny bag, wow. That’s how I know I’m on the right track I guess
The conspiracy theorist in me wants to say that maybe some of the fluorine in the teflon is being leached out and causing an improved leaching … guess I’ve seen too many videos about those darn pans.
But the “show-me-state” in my blood wants to run the experiment with a Teflon container as the independent variable to prove it
I will say, the other patents that I’ve read with high recovery yields, including the migrovave digestion ones…used a Teflon vessel for leaching
Edit for clarification
Teflon is created as a fine powder and the Pressed/sintered into shape by high pressure and temperature.Teflon mesh is like $1,500 for a tiny bag, wow. That’s how I know I’m on the right track I guess
Since it will decompose before melting.
So what do you mean about bag of mesh?
kurtak
Well-known member
Key word here - "experiments" --- experiments = SMALL scale (often times VERY SMALL) process to achieve results (ether positive or negative) --- & though such experiments can prove a positive result - on a small scale - does NOT mean they can be scaled up to a production level that is practical &/or effective for production (profitable) processing
Anyone - once they prove a small scale experiment process can write a patent on their experiment process results - but - that again does NOT mean the patent is practical &/or effective on/for large scale production (profitable) processing
If all these papers (experiment &/or patents) that you are reading - most of which come out of universities - as experiments to prove a "theory" --- were actually feasible in/for being scaled up to practical/effective production levels ---- don't you think the BIG BOYS in this BILLIONS dollar industry - with BILLIONS of dollars to invest - would be implementing these processes into there production processes
They don't & haven't & that is because though these methods may well work on small experiment levels they simply are not practical & or effective for production (profitable) processing
It's kind of like "experiment papers" we have seen posted using salt &/or vinegar as "green" methods for recovering PMs from circuit boards - which are proven to work (small scale) you certainly are not going to see production companies like Mitsubishi or Glencore implementing them because they simply are not practical &/or effective for production processing
The CuCl2 process may well work for the hobby refiner to recover gold plating from fingers & pins - but you certainly are NOT going to see any actual production refiner implement such a process because it is nether practical nor effective for scaling up to production processing
Companies like Mitsubishi, Glencore, Johnson Matthey etc. etc. are on the "leading edge" of "all things" in the "industry" of PM recovery/refining - and - if these methods - that can be found in "published" papers/patents actually worked - those companies - that have the BILLIONS to invest - they would most certainly be implementing those methods - if they where actually practical &/or effective ---- don't you think ????
Kurt
I think those billions of dollars are investing in the best way to process thousands of cats all at once, if I had access to thousands of them at once it wouldn’t make sense to process them all individually. Overall recovery would be measured against labor wages for chemists, and I’m willing to bet it’s much cheaper to process thousands at once than to employ chemist after chemist to process them in smaller quantities.
There were teflon mesh anode bags for $1,500 that I came across, idk I don’t know much about the electrodeposition/electrolysis processes.
That is why it was so expensive.
Here for a beaker:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw04gIdPu1YaPLSVhLZtn_ZA
