using AP method for gold filled

[DylanDownright84]

Also, I'm cooking down the small batch of powder I got from the fingers last weeknd. Alternating between water and Hcl, just adding a tiny bit of either as it cooks off to help dissolve possible salts and whatnot. During which I've notice small crystals trying to form, like when boiling down a salty solution. From my studies I'm guessing they're a chloride of some kind? I'm still searching the forum for a post that might tell me in detail.

 

[Shark]

Are the crystals long and thin, needle like and white looking?
If so, possibly lead, which should wash out with hot water, not so well with cold water.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Dylan, a lot of us have worked hard to get you through your first refine. You've learned a lot, but you have much more to learn. My advice would be to step back from processing for a while. Keep gathering material. Read, read, read, then read some more. Only start a process when you understand it so well you're confident you won't have to ask any questions. If you still run into a problem, we'll be here to help.

Dave

 

[DylanDownright84]

This is definitely the last I'll he doing this for quite a while! I really wanted to try and familiarize myself with this and see if it was possible. I've definitely had my share of refining for awhile guys. Next step, I'm just gonna read, study, annoy, and collect e-scrap while continuing melting down silver. I'm picking up some scrap jewelry this weekend as well as some old computers. As far as processing, think I'm just gonna watch what you guys are doing. Much love!

 

[chuckgambale]

Shark that picture is a great visual aid for learning thank you very much for posting that. Isn't it nice to see a truly clear gold bearing solution.

 

[Shark]

Shark that picture is a great visual aid for learning thank you very much for posting that. Isn't it nice to see a truly clear gold bearing solution.

As annoying as filtering can be at times, it feels great when you get it right. And the improvement it makes on the buttons are worth the effort.

 

[DylanDownright84]

Shark that picture is a great visual aid for learning thank you very much for posting that. Isn't it nice to see a truly clear gold bearing solution.

As annoying as filtering can be at times, it feels great when you get it right. And the improvement it makes on the buttons are worth the effort.

Looking alot better, still gonna do another filter though. Knowing what to look for really does help! Thanks Shark!

 

[DylanDownright84]

Do you guys recycle your copper after you cement it out of your AP mixes? I don't have a lot of it, but I'm sure it'll add up over time.

 

[Shark]

Do you guys recycle your copper after you cement it out of your AP mixes? I don't have a lot of it, but I'm sure it'll add up over time.

I am still using my first AP. I have added to it over time so I would have a larger solution, and I have cemented some copper out in small lots. I used the copper to melt when I first started playing with my furnace. Maybe someone else can give you a better answer. I know if the copper isn't taken care of it will corrode (I think oxidize is the right word) fast.

 

[DylanDownright84]

Same here, Shark. Just been cementing it out in small amounts.

On a side note, I had set the AP mix from the gold filled scrap aside in a separate container because I was suspicious that I had dissolved some gold into it. Tested it this morning with stannous and there she was. So I did a bit of reading and simply added a bit of clean copper to the jar.

Had read that Dave had done it on accident as well, so I'm gonna just cement it out. Kinda good this happened, allows me to get more much needed experience.

 

[goldsilverpro]

If it's not crystal clear, with no visible cloudiness, it needs filtering.

 

[DylanDownright84]

The first drop was filthy, as Dave told me it was going to be. Haha. So I filtered, washed, washed, and washed, then dissolved again. Filtered 4 times (see pretty yellow solution above) then dropped again. Was much cleaner this time. Let settle for about 36 hours, tested with stannous, negative, then decanted through a filter. Cooked down with Hcl then distilled water back and forth. Put on low heat till the powder dried up and turned a light tan. Saving it till I pull the rest out of the AP mix it came from. All in all the AP method did work on the gold filled scrap though.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Not so sure it would if it was vermeil, or goldfill on sterling.
That would most likely cause you nothing but grief.

 

[Shark]

The first drop was filthy, as Dave told me it was going to be. Haha. So I filtered, washed, washed, and washed, then dissolved again. Filtered 4 times (see pretty yellow solution above) then dropped again. Was much cleaner this time. Let settle for about 36 hours, tested with stannous, negative, then decanted through a filter. Cooked down with Hcl then distilled water back and forth. Put on low heat till the powder dried up and turned a light tan. Saving it till I pull the rest out of the AP mix it came from. All in all the AP method did work on the gold filled scrap though.

What exactly are you calling "cooked down"?

 

[DylanDownright84]

Well here it is fellas! 1.2 grams. Thanks to all you sexy fellows that helped!

 

[upcyclist]

Great! I'm glad you got something sizable to show for your time.

One small tip: get your button hotter next time, and it'll be more button than lump. Insulating the area around the crucible (making an impromptu box/furnace) helps a lot--you can use fire blanket (aka ceramic blanket, kaowool) or refractory bricks.

 

[DylanDownright84]

Great! I'm glad you got something sizable to show for your time.

One small tip: get your button hotter next time, and it'll be more button than lump. Insulating the area around the crucible (making an impromptu box/furnace) helps a lot--you can use fire blanket (aka ceramic blanket, kaowool) or refractory bricks.

Ahhhhhh! Never thought of that! Used a freshly glazed 150g crucible with another ontop of it. Since all my dust was collected in 2 small pieces of filter I didn't wanna chance any of it blowing away. Took some time, but I'm happy with the overall process and results. My silver melts very fast and easily with my mapp. Gold however doesn't melt quite as smoothly. I have an old coffee can I'm gonna turn into a makeshift insulation housing. The scrap gold I melted down in the past melted pretty nicely into a small 14 gram ingot, but I have some other scrap that won't melt at all. It's weird.

 

[upcyclist]

Yep, the melting point of gold is a couple hundred degrees (Fahrenheit) higher than silver. If that's right at the edge of your torch output, you'll know it

The scrap gold I melted down in the past melted pretty nicely into a small 14 gram ingot, but I have some other scrap that won't melt at all. It's weird.

Not weird at all, since "scrap" covers lots of different karat levels (assuming you're talking jewelry scrap here). The base metal content affects the melting point, too--and even more so for gold filled & plated items. Brass will have a lower melting point then straight copper, and both are lower than plated steel. Metals can also help others melt, as they alloy at the surfaces where the two meet--so copper with molten zinc around it will melt sooner (into a brass alloy) than straight copper.

 

[DylanDownright84]

I'm using a mapp torch. Burns around 3600°F in open air. Melts silver great, but anytime I've tried melting gold it gets lumpy like in the above pic. Gonna get myself some kaowool and see if I can build another small forge. I did build one a while back, but can't get it hot enough with my current fuel options. I do have access to about 300 gallons of propane that's not being used and I plan on either moving the tank to the shed and running it with oxygen or running a line from the tank to my grill and just using the grilling tank for the shed with some oxygen. I have 3 empty tanks that a friend gave me from when he was a firefighter so it might be my next little project.

 

[upcyclist]

I'm using a mapp torch. Burns around 3600°F in open air.

It's not so much about the flame temp but the heat output (in BTUs). A Smith Little Torch running oxy/acetylene gets nice and hot, but if you're going to melt more than an ounce of metal you better have the rosebud (multi-orifice) tip.

edit: corrected name of torch