What happen?

[Geo]

oh man, you sure didnt have to do that. how very thoughtful of you to try and make me understand something that ive done myself many times and you couldnt do once.

reign21male, i wasnt going to reply to this thread again but im not going to be insulted twice and keep quiet.i did try to help you and the advice i gave you is straight from the book you are quoting. you cant understand that there are steps to this process (as in step 1,step 2, step 3 and so on) and i was advising you on step one because i knew you didnt understand.i would have given you help with step two if you had done as i advised and straightened out the mess. as it is now, i wouldnt advise you on boiling water.

in response to the insults you have hurled my way, you can kiss my derriere.

 

[reign21male]

And jim that is my point. there will all be be people that its something is wrong but wont tell you why? so tell me jim why is it wrong? what part is wrong and why? the video show the process so there is proof it works so tell JIm what part is wrong and why?

 

[Geo]

Butcher, thank you for the kind words. i do try and help when i can. the old saying you can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink is so very true.

 

[reign21male]

After listening to you. I have no doubt you had missed my point. And You responsed in the way I figured you would. Take care geo. Maybe one day you look back at this and realize there was alot of miscommunication.

 

[jimdoc]

And jim that is my point. there will all be be people that its something is wrong but wont tell you why? so tell me jim why is it wrong? what part is wrong and why? the video show the process so there is proof it works so tell JIm what part is wrong and why?

You are too set on proving yourself right, than to step back and look at everything again. Someone doesn't have to explain to you everything that makes what you did wrong.

You keep mixing "this video" and Hoke's book to come up with your instructions, and disregarding any suggestions that you didn't make the right decisions in what you did.

You need to lose the attitude and entitlement of an explanation of what you did wrong, when you don't seem to want to admit that you did something wrong.

Jim

 

[reign21male]

i'm not giving anyone a attitude. I asked a quest that hasnt been answered. I was try to get anwsers and instead. I get unhelpiful criticism. geo , marty? and you. You keep attacking me. when all i'm trying to due is understand. the first step was the nitric acid it reacted until it stopped. I thought it was done. my error was i did know that i would have to reapply a hot bath of nitric acid until it all dissolved. I thought the other materials were steel from the some the gold filled with i would remove later with a magnet. To me it made sense to AR. And I have see others do it as well.

 

[reign21male]

and no jim. I'm not setting out to prove i'm right. Just trying to get some answers. If you told me the world was flat i would ask you to prove it. Thank is all

 

[butcher]

reign21male.

No you still do not understand, about what Hoke was saying, or about what Geo was saying, and what others are saying, you took a material that would have been easy to process, and mixed in a trashy metal, that would cause many problems to begin with, you also did not understand Hoke saying if you done this, you would have to understand the problems this would cause, and understand how to deal with them (as she teaches in another section of her book), you did not understand that, and you did not understand how to deal with your mess, you used a wrong approach from the beginning, mixing these troublesome base metals with karat gold, and then used the wrong acid process to complicate the problem.

Then when Geo was giving good advice to try and help you get out of your problem and to understand why it was a problem, and others were trying to get you to see you did not understand what Hoke was saying, or what you were doing, your pride got in the way and put your foot in your mouth.

Now you are still trying to prove yourself right, and not trying to understand where you went wrong in the process, I do not feel anybody is attacking you, pride does not want to admit it is wrong, and can make a man more wrong, making a small mistake into a bigger mess.

You do need help understanding Hokes book if you expect to be successful at refining, you can do this making messes on your own and figuring out how to get out of them (with the help of Hoke's book) but it can cost a lot of wasted gold to use that approach.

You can admit you may have not understood what you were doing, or what Hoke was saying, and apologize for putting your foot in your mouth insulting those trying to help you, and get on with learning, with the help from others, who can help you get an understanding of what you read in Hokes.

Before you can fix what you done wrong, you would have to admit you have done wrong.
You have done Geo wrong, you think your being attacked, you are not being attacked, but your pride does not want to see it was wrong, and wants to justify the misunderstanding, and your insulting others who were just trying to help,
Geo was giving good advice; others were trying to get you to see that you did not understand, your comments were wrong, and insulting.

Before we can discuss the chemical problem I feel we need to fix this problem, before we can move forward to begin to get an understanding of the problem of the base metals and acids, and get an understanding what Hoke teaches.

Admitting you do not understand and apologizing for offending those trying to help, would go a long way, towards your goal of learning to refine your metals, and getting help in understanding these things you do not understand at this point.

I hope you understand, and we can put this behind us and get back to learning what Hoke’s has taught us.

 

[eeTHr]

Then I could dissolve the gold with AR to remove and stubborn metals and ores that were left and clean the powder with nitric acid and then melt.

Did anyone mention that you shouldn't try to clean powder, which was precipited from AR, directly with nitric? (If you don't incenerate the powder first, it will contain trace amounts of HCl, even if rinsed several times, which will form AR and dissolve some of your gold.)

And that the best dilution of nitric with water, for dissolving silver or base metals the fastest, is about 50-50? (That would be if using standard concentrated nitric.)

 

[reign21male]

Look my attention was not affend anyone. I felt like I asked a question and then I was taken the wrong way. Then I felt like i was being talked down to. In reality I was only a litte irrated by your comment geo. But what set me off was the addition comments for the the next two people. And I felt they were not being constructive, but just the opposite. So my attention really wasnt to offend and it wasnt to prove my process. All I wanted to know is what went wrong and why.
-jason-

 

[Palladium]

One of the wisest people i've ever had the privilege of learning from use to talk down to me. Did i like it? no! Did i learn from it? Yes! But only now that i look back do i understand the lesson he was teaching. I learned that their is even a reason why he did that. Humility in and of it's self is a learning experience and a tool. Not that anyone is talking down to you, but pride can be both a good as well as bad thing. When wise people speak now i keep my mouth shut and my ears open. Took me too long to learn that lesson and at what cost? I think if you will start over again and commit yourself to following step by step what these gentleman are trying to explain you will see the wisdom in it. The reason i know this is i owe every bit of my success in refining to the wisdom i have gathered here and if it was wrong i would not enjoy the success that i have had up until to this point. Welcome to the forum Jason!

 

[Pantherlikher]

I'm thinking based on your English, or lack there of, the first thing you should do is appologise for not having good english and appologise if it sounds bad.
Just stating that would change alot of additudes toward your questions and comments. This might also be why you do not fully understand what you read in the book and so watched someone do something similiar to what you want. Then combined the 2 and added what you should Not have done. This part is what Geo is trying to help you out of but your reply sounded very nasty so of course, offense is taken. Re read what Geo wrote and try to understand what he said. It makes sense to me and I have no clue how he figured that much out.
BS.

 

[nickvc]

Jason I feel in this case we may have had some language translation problems as no one on the forum will attack you without swift intervention from a moderator. You started well by beginning to read Hoke but you need to read the whole book several times to fully understand its value and not rely on any other resource than this forum for correct processes and methods to recover and refine, there are other sites linked to the forum to be trusted but you will find those through the forum.
We have a unique site here with free advice and some of the finest minds, professional and amateur, in refining and been a member is a privilege not a right that should not be lightly taken. You can learn to process virtually all precious metals by virtually all the methods known here and it's free you just have to read and study the posts.
I hope you stay and understand how the forum works, no one is paid its all done to further the science and practice of recovery and refining of precious metals.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Geo]

Jason, explain this remark.

I see why new people seem to take issue with geo. And remember never say never.

also this,

I read what geo said. I also add more info to give him a better understanding and also asked other questions that were not anwsered.

you say you wasnt arguing to prove you were right, but you said this.

Andy was the only one that seem to understand I was proving my method much like scientist or lawyers.

please explain this the best you can and make me understand.

After listening to you. I have no doubt you had missed my point. And You responsed in the way I figured you would. Take care geo.

if you can explain this to me and make me understand why you meant no disrespect or was trying to insult me, we can get past this and get on with the task at hand. otherwise apologize for what looks like your insulting manner and we can move on from there. i cant speak for the other members you addressed before, but if you make me understand better, it will go a long way to ease the tension and you may get more help.

 

[butcher]

Geo, I told Jason (reign21male), that you would be a big help to him if He apologized, for his comments, as you were just trying to help, (he misunderstood the comments and intentions) his pride got the best of him in his uneducated Ideas, and his misunderstanding of the processes, and of the intentions of those on the forum who were trying to help (in our unconventional way), thinking others were here downgrading him with answers to his post.

Geo, I also would like to see you and Jason work this out this misunderstanding between you two, and I also feel your offer to continue to help Jason once the air is cleared is a nice gesture towards that.

Jason, a simple apology is all that is needed, no one here was downgrading you, we can understand you do not know the chemistry, and you thought you know some things from what you have read before, we also all make mistakes, you misunderstood Geo and his and others intentions in their answers to your post, and said some things out of that, that should not have been said, here is your chance to start fresh with these guys, and give the forum a chance to see what kind of man you are, and give us on the forum to show you what kind of men we are, so we can all get back to helping each other, and leave this misunderstanding behind us.

I would like to see Jason and Geo, be able shake hands and put all of this behind them, then I bet we would all see a lot of good come from these two men helping each other learn, and becoming friends.

 

[reign21male]

I'm sorry for the way I responsed to you. I misunderstood your intent. I was try understand why the disconnect between what I read and what you were telling me. Can we you please forgive me :?:

 

[Geo]

apology accepted. feel free to ask what you need and if i can offer any advise, i will.

i came to the forum knowing very little about any of this and i understand the desire to want to know all of it and start working on everything at once. it takes patience to learn about this kind of thing. i read from a very wise man that said that learning refining is like a foot race, not quite a marathon but an endurance race. slow and steady and not a violent rush to the end. everything you want to learn is right here, just be patient and listen to what the people that have done it before tells you. remember, it only advise. you can listen and try to follow what was said or not listen and try it your own way but i promise you that you will do better by following advice from the people that know.

and by the way, disregard what you learned on youtube. if it didnt come from the forum or at least a forum member, it shouldnt be considered reliable information.

 

[reign21male]

Thank you for understanding my frustration. I will dissregard youtube as you advised. I decided much Like my talks with Butcher. I will hold my additional questions until later. But this is what as happen in last 5 days. My burner/hotplate died. So I try Hcl with the last of the pieces instead of heat from the burner I tried a boiling steam bath. I boiled some water and put it in the bucket I had my pyrex glass in and I'm guessing it wasnt enough heat because it didnt really react. The HLC just turned gray. So I deluted the soluation and decanted it. I later tried the nitric acid again 50/50. And it reacted for a long time and in the end there was were some small pieces that had not desolved so I deluted the mixture was starting to poor it off in my container and the little piece fell in. At that point I just added all the slug and power in the bottom of the my pyrex. Making sure I sprayed the container down to make sure I didnt leave anything behind. Since sunday I I have been trying to cement the soluation. By adding a couple of wheat stock pennies sense ther mostly copper and then I picked up a long copper tube that I also add to the mix and I have stirred it a couple of times a day. The solution is a very dense light blue until I stir it. And then it turns really gray. I was going to heat it up and add sulfuric acid to it to evaporate and to get rid of teh lead. But butcher said that would be a bad idea. So should I filter the solution and keep it. And melt up the remaining sediment minus the copper left over?

 

[reign21male]

Oh I forgot. I ordered another burner and got it yesterday. I ordered more hcl and nitric from ebay 69.99 free shipping. I do have a little nitric and some HLC left just not alot. the acid will mostly should up monday. If I'm really lucky Saturday.

 

[qst42know]

A small amount of tin in nitric makes a mess. A large amount makes a nightmare.

From the looks of it much of your "electric plate" was costume jewelery or plated pewter (mostly tin). If this is the case it will be a big project recovering any values.

You will get more accurate help if you can work on your word choices and spelling. It is very difficult when what you have written needs translated first. If this is due to a phone borrow a real key board please.