A passive stripping system

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Very nice post Butcher, thank you.
That`s a slick efficient system. You made do with very little expense and a lot of ingenuity. One thing, the pickle jar scares me. Try to get a 2 liter or larger erlenmeyer flask. Could you make a teflon stopper for that?
I have used a computer power supply in an electro-cell, the 5 volt output is about right.
Al
 
lab glass would be better than pickle jar, either will break from changing temperature thermal shock, I have busted a pickle jar once (learned my lesson getting my gold out of sand bath not fun) but as long as I keep aware and don't change temperature fast, the pickle jar has survived many a distillations, also I have used an electric hot plate.
at 2ND hand store found a few coffee pots pyrex that look like lab glass erlenmyer type, I made a teflon lid with hose and have used it directly on electric hot plate several times to distill out my acids (like from concentrated acid peroxide and copper solutions to make clear acids to add to other processes while dehydrating the copper salts to save), I have bought some of that fancy labware distilling kit and all, never used it yet,
I like my cheap glass and second hand lab ware, maybe someday Ill try that fancy stuff out. but give me a coffee pot electric hot plate a welding torch, propane torch, mason jars, pyrex type skillet, pickle jars, some other common kitchen stuff from the junk store and I am happily getting those metals.

the cell seems finicky at times, probably PH, and copper content, but it works good for breaking the metal down to powder's so my acid volume used is less and I can dissolve them easier, the nitrates used did not seem to make much detectable gas(maybe dilution of my jar cell?), but when loaded with copper and PH low would get green foam usually little water and nitrates or settling powders and cleaning out cell was answer, there was one time when it seemed to have made ammonia (or at least it smelled like ammonia to my ole nose), but that only happened once,if you do get an ammonia smell with silver don't dry out your powders, I wouldn't dry my powders anyway's, if silver in ammonia add hydrochloric acid, to change PH and make it safer. as silver and ammonia is not something to mess with, can be dangerous.
it may be better if they are high copper content to use a chloride solution as copper chloride and bag the Anode, haven't tried that yet, basically copper electrowin cell.
gases of cell's and the product's they form should alway's be considered.

for electrowinning the lower voltage would be great, you may even be able to get a better plate (at least more silver to stick to cathode) this was not my intent, which for me was only to disolve the metals to powder and not plate them out, which once I got silver more pure after disolving in acid and preciptating back out, can use to inquart gold, then and after collecting enough of it in a more pure state would look in building a silver cell to refine the impure silver.
this information is just some things I have done not the best way maybe but I was happy with my results. try them for fun if you like, but study as much as you can and be safe. could be some things created in the cell I don't understand yet?
 
Hi Butcher
Nice post. I have also used coffee pots and found them at garage sales. The best ones are marked pyrex. On all my heating I have used a hot plate with an aluminum plate over it. Or you could even use a couple of aluminum pie plates. Even pryex should be protected from the red hot coils.
The only trouble with coffee pots is they are too small if you want to work bigger batches.
My biggest containers are 4 liter beakers and the old 5 gallon bucket. 8)

Al
 
my hotplates are cast iron with wire coil in groove under them, when new they have a black coating which wears off after awhile. have not used the type with red hot coils so kind of forgot about them, the temperature on them can get very hot fast if they glow the iron red hot,
the style of hot plate I use do not get that hot. small burner little over 500 deg F. large burner about 700 deg F.

I would take caution with coffee pot directly on the red hot coils, maybe use a wire screen? or sand bath.
in any event do not change temperature on any type glass rapidly even the best glass will not handle thermal shock,
old coffee pot burners work good for slow evaporation of liquids.
also old crock pots are really handy.
one of my most used tools is a suction bulb, very similar to a turkey baster only little better, it and cheap plastic eye droppers, great for transfering liquids, decanting, using to get syphering hose started, sucking powders from bottom of jar ETC.
 
Gosh it has been a long time since I've been on the forum. Too many health problems that required immediate action. Well I am back on a limited basis and I will be happy to field any questions I can.

Randy in Gunnison
 
Hi Randy
Good to hear you on again. I haven`t either, but this forum always feels like home. We had some recent posts, discussing our recent activities on leaching.

Al
 
A follow up.
When I starting using this processing I tried to selectively recover metals from the solution. Now I collect the copper rich sludge, wash it several times in hot water, and then run it into some nitric acid to remove copper, silver, and palladium. That leaves the other precious metals fairly clean. HCl-Cl dissolvse them and then they can be precipitated after testing with stannous chloride to determine what is present. Hope this helps.

Randy in Gunnison
 
Shecker said:
A follow up.
When I starting using this processing I tried to selectively recover metals from the solution. Now I collect the copper rich sludge, wash it several times in hot water, and then run it into some nitric acid to remove copper, silver, and palladium. That leaves the other precious metals fairly clean. HCl-Cl dissolvse them and then they can be precipitated after testing with stannous chloride to determine what is present. Hope this helps.

Randy in Gunnison

Hi Randy.
Glad u back and feeling better, have some questions for u :lol:

So you say solder doesnt go in the sludge? Does it stay on the board or goes in the solution? Because tin or lead can be a problem.
Also using so much nitric is a no-go for me at the moment. Just wondering if hot HCl wash would do the trick with copper sludge, living behind more precious percipitants? It would surelly be less expensive :)

Simon
 
Simon,

Finely divided copper sponge or 'mossy copper' will dissolve in HCl, it just requires a little time. Try a very small sample of your sludge and see what remains after treating it with HCl.

Steve
 
lazersteve said:
Simon,

Finely divided copper sponge or 'mossy copper' will dissolve in HCl, it just requires a little time. Try a very small sample of your sludge and see what remains after treating it with HCl.

Steve


Hey Steve. Im (sad to say) still far from the copper sponge, waiting for my CuSO4, ordered from Croatia :cry: By little time u mean like days or weeks :shock: :lol:
I supose a little H2O2 could speed up the process, but dont now, how this affects other elements in the moss. Silver is a brainstormer for me. Is it in a sulphate form (in the finely divided sponge)?

Also I have a nonrelated question:
If i would check only copper loaded HCl with stannous, would I get any color indication?

Thanks,Simon
 
eagle2 said:
dorki
The test for Copper in solution is to add enough Ammonia water to make the solution basic. A deep blue color is Copper.

Al

Thanks, Eagle.

I was experimenting with some very old pins (100 grams) in AP. First bath was for 2 days. 1 dcl H2O2 and 3 dcl 30% HCl, room temperature. I poured off the solution, tried to make a mess with HCl+Cl. It worked :oops: Got a beautiful green solution (tested with stannous-blueish-purple). Some pins stayed untouched, kind of copperish color. Washed with water, then again AP with 1:2 ratio AP. This time, solution got very dark green, and kind of black on the bottom. The black having a higher viscosity.

Now I wonder - Iron? Pd? Just copper? Stannous test - light green. It could be just the color of the drop, not a reaction

:?: :?:

Simon
 
Simon
If the black on the bottom is still liquid, just stir it. If its sludge add a little more HCl. The black is still Copper.

You should have done the AP longer. Pour off the used liquid and and add fresh HCl+H2O2. Don`t add all that H2O2 either. The Copper Chloride that forms really does all the work. A lot of strong H2O2 tends to dissolve Gold. Some brown pins means some Copper has coated the surface and you need to do fresh AP.

When you did the HCl + Cl you dissolved Gold, now doing AP again makes no sense because you can`t pour off anything without pouring off Gold. Now your only choice is to try to get everything in solution and precip with SMB or Ferrous Sulfate or Zinc. Precip of Gold this way works, but it will be very dirty and you will have to repeat.

Al
 
dorki22 said:
If i would check only copper loaded HCl with stannous, would I get any color indication?
To my knowledge, there are NO base metals that yield a reaction with stannous chloride. If you see a reaction, it is the result of precious metals of some description.

Harold
 
eagle2 said:
Simon
If the black on the bottom is still liquid, just stir it. If its sludge add a little more HCl. The black is still Copper.

You should have done the AP longer. Pour off the used liquid and and add fresh HCl+H2O2. Don`t add all that H2O2 either. The Copper Chloride that forms really does all the work. A lot of strong H2O2 tends to dissolve Gold. Some brown pins means some Copper has coated the surface and you need to do fresh AP.

When you did the HCl + Cl you dissolved Gold, now doing AP again makes no sense because you can`t pour off anything without pouring off Gold. Now your only choice is to try to get everything in solution and precip with SMB or Ferrous Sulfate or Zinc. Precip of Gold this way works, but it will be very dirty and you will have to repeat.

Al

Hi, Eagle2.

I kindda felt that copper is the black, but I needed a second opinion, just to be sure.

I know, it wasnt very vise to do HCl-Cl before all copper went to AP, so making another AP is silly. But I was just experimenting, and I know gold wasnt lost. Just trying to identify the black. And I also learned :idea: , that heat is a must, if you want speed :twisted:

And that pins "belong" to sulphuric sell.

Simon
 
Harold_V said:
dorki22 said:
If i would check only copper loaded HCl with stannous, would I get any color indication?
To my knowledge, there are NO base metals that yield a reaction with stannous chloride. If you see a reaction, it is the result of precious metals of some description.

Harold

Thank you Harold, this is a very important information.

Simon
 

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