An alternative passive stripping system

[jimmyreece]

im sorry, either im not sure on how to go about that or i just cant find it

 

[jimmyreece]

hey darkspark, were you able to reconstitute your solution after using lye as a precipatant? and it seems like the solution gets saturated quickly or somthing eles is going on because whether i mix the solution acording to the original OP's directions or when i mix it to your's (4:1) , there is always a large amount of pms left untouched.
the diference between the two the weaker solution went completely clear quick, the heavier concentration(4:1) it took several hours for a reaction( a little less than room temp)but when it did the solutuion became thick with a fine yellow powder floating around that took most of the day to settle to the bottom . it went completly clear only wen i added lye.
does anybody know what is taking place with this method, is the iodine suppose to completely disolve the gold or just lift off the gold foils? if that was the case then it would have to be dissolving what the gold was attached to. and why wouldnt a stronger rato of iodine be better? and why is there so much gold left untouched, what is the correct formula in relation to how much gold for how much solution. somebody has to know what chemical process is taking place. it would be much welcomed. thanks

 

[DarkspARCS]

I initially used lye when another member commented that it was what is used to precipitate gold from iodine... but all lye did was create a brief blue dye cloud then it sank to the bottom. My lixivant still has it on the bottom of the bottle.

I used 3% hydrogen peroxide to reconstitute the iodine durring the leaching process, which after several shots of h2o2 and one small addition of hcl 15% durring that that my pm values all went into solution. I then took out the spent materials (all of which looked burnt reddish brown lol) and immersed activated charcoal into the clear whitish-yellow solution, again, aggitating the carbon filled bottle up and down in the solution several times.

The carbon appeared to be working because there was a bubbling reaction as soon as it was immersed that settled down after a bit. The solution went from clear yellow to a deep dark reddish brown liquid that smelled strongly like iodine after around two to three hours of aggitated carbon immersion. Its my assumption that the solution returing to iodine was the indicator needed to tell me the pm values went into the charcoal... but I could be wrong and my values still sit in solution and all carbon did was absorb impurities.

I'll know more once I ash and then smelt the charcoal.

 

[Oz]

I used 3% hydrogen peroxide to reconstitute the iodine durring the leaching process, which after several shots of h2o2 and one small addition of hcl 15% durring that that my pm values all went into solution.

You do realize that you made AP (acid peroxide) when you used hydrogen peroxide and HCL, right? That in itself will put your gold into solution whether iodide/iodine is in the solution or not.

 

[jimmyreece]

wow darkspark ! thats strange. well the lye didnt do that with me. it did precipitate everything. im just not sure what everything is just yet.
i have four different methods brewing right now using the iodine. all four with a different approach and different formula. i havent filtered none of them yet. havent decided which method to use . but what i did notice is the gold would disolve at different rates and forms depending on the PH. the higher the PH the more of a solid (gold) would drop to the bottom. but a ph of 6 or less seems to disolve the gold.so watch your hcl use. i dont see any advantages of using h202 except to reconstute the solution but i dont think it has a direct effect on the disolving the gold. i dont know. im not a chemist but heat did make a difference. i used very hot water to mix with the iodine/hcl/h202 and when i added the solution to the metal it realy took off.
very interesting. and still learning. thanks again for your input

 

[DarkspARCS]

I used 3% hydrogen peroxide to reconstitute the iodine durring the leaching process, which after several shots of h2o2 and one small addition of hcl 15% durring that that my pm values all went into solution.

You do realize that you made AP (acid peroxide) when you used hydrogen peroxide and HCL, right? That in itself will put your gold into solution whether iodide/iodine is in the solution or not.

yeah, I started the whole thing in a retarded way when I tried to leach out the blue from water that turned such when I converted polymetallic ore to mud. then, I didn't include any heat... but worked solely with chemicals.

I am rather confused about how one can reconstitute iodine with water, maybe I'm missing something here.

In either event, the solution did strip the values, and something did occur when I used the activated carbon in the solution that caused the solution to turn from clear yellow to dark iodine. I have the solution still, in a sealed bottle, and may find my values still locked in solution lol. I'll let ya know!

 

[jimmyreece]

that blue may be silver, i now have the same blue that precipitated down after using lye on one of my four solutions.

 

[qst42know]

Here is a good read on leaching with halides. Unfortunately this fellow passed away several years ago so he's not available for questions. The blue may be your iodine.

http://webpages.charter.net/kwilliams00/bcftp/front.htm

 

[dtectr]

wow darkspark ! thats strange. well the lye didnt do that with me. it did precipitate everything. im just not sure what everything is just yet.

Sodium is the only metal whose hydroxide (Sodium Hydroxide (Lye)) is soluble in water - therefore, it can be used to precipitate other metals from solution. However, it does not tend to be selective. It also tends to leave a loose, flocculent precipitate. So, if other metals are dissolved in solution, they would precipitate, as well. I'm not sure what you'd be accomplishing in the cases you described. The result would be contaminated gold which would require further refining.

You do realize that you made AP (acid peroxide) when you used hydrogen peroxide and HCL, right? That in itself will put your gold into solution whether iodide/iodine is in the solution or not.

Did you guys see Oz' comment that HCl/H2O2 will dissolve base metals, or even dissolve gold if the peroxide ratio is too high? It can work the same way AR does, where nitric as the oxidizer, rather than H2O2 with AP (HCl/H2O2). I thought idea of the use of iodine (at least in this post) was to selectively strip the gold without using strong acids or cyanide, not to dissolve the base metals & leave the gold behind, which every other process described here does, easier & cheaper.

If I added HCl/H2O2 to grape Kool-Aid it would also work to dissolve the base metals, leaving the gold behind. If I mixed it strong enough it would dissolve gold, as well. That doesn't make it a good idea to do so, however.

Maybe I'm missing something

 

[DarkspARCS]

I thought idea of the use of iodine (at least in this post) was to selectively strip the gold without using strong acids or cyanide, not to dissolve the base metals & leave the gold behind, which every other process described here does, easier & cheaper.

The thread's title said as much... but it appears the title is misleading!

An alternative passive stripping system
by Shecker » September 15th, 2009, 2:27 pm

I have been experimenting with another passive stripping approach to e-scrap that seems well suited for such things as cpu's, pins, fingers, monolithic capacitors, etc. I've been using a dilute solution of veterinarian grasde Povidine Iodine. I make an iodine solution that has a thin red color (iodine water). This dissolves gold, silver, platinum, palladium, but does not react with lead, tin, aluminum, or copper. As the solution begins to become saturated it starts dropping out some discrete particles of precious metals. It will continue to do until the solution looses it stability and goes clear. I ran some CPU's today and after about two hours the precious metals were laying in the bottom of the container. No precipitation was required. Forum members working with iodine may give this try and report their observations.

Randy in Gunnison

Nowhere in this post - the post starting this topic - did Randy mention using "a small amount of hcl". In his third post, Randy was asked if it worked. He replied:

Just enough to make the water reddish-brown but you can still see through the solution. If the mixture becomes opaque add more water.

Water to reconstitute the iodine.Water to reconstitute the iodine?! This is where I changed 'water (H2O)' to 'Hydrogen Peroxide 3% (H2O2)'. This is how to get your "opaque" mixture back to the active reddish-brown it needs to be to work.

In his 4th post Randy states:

As the iodine is exhausted tiny bits of metal will fall to the bottom of whatever vessel you would use. There will also be a golden yellow solution left over which still contains gold. I recover most of that on carbon but I am still working on the residue gold left in solution.

Randy in Gunnison

This is where I got the info on using activated carbon to get my pm values out. I never saw ny 'bits of metal' as Randy described it.

After several people scrutinize his method (one person even including alohol in thier attempt) and report failures... all of them... Randy reappears and says:

I am sorry about this but I forgot to add that I add a small amount of HCl to get the pH slightly acidic. That and iodine water. And I don't care if it take takes 60 hours -- that is the whole idea of passive stripping. Mix it up and ignore it for awhile. And yet I do do it indoors.

Randy

Now Randy comes back with this 'oops...'. After my little attempt, Oz informs us that this is now no longer an iodine leach but now an AP solution.

This thread, at this point IMHO, is irrelevant, costly, and dangerous. It provided partial info that has cost several folks, including myself, time, money, and now possibly my gold.

If I cant find a viable method in recovering it after ashing and smelting my charcoal I'm going to flag this thread and ask for it to be removed so that other newbies like myself wont be fooled by it, or worse even, be harmed by it.

 

[DarkspARCS]

I used 3% hydrogen peroxide to reconstitute the iodine durring the leaching process, which after several shots of h2o2 and one small addition of hcl 15% durring that that my pm values all went into solution.

You do realize that you made AP (acid peroxide) when you used hydrogen peroxide and HCL, right? That in itself will put your gold into solution whether iodide/iodine is in the solution or not.

Lol... :shock: ... Well Oz, It appears that I'll have to treat this as an AP leach now. Please tell me my intuition was correct in that iodine doesn't reconstitute with water... I mean, lol... I posted that fact earlier in this thread AFTER I added water when my solution went opaque (I was following Randy's instructions) and the solution remained opaque. Remembering that iodine reconstitutes with h2o2 I then went that route and my solution (true to form) went back to being "reddish-brown".

How Randy (who has been quiet now since I confronted this issue) recontitutes his iodine with plain water is a mystery to me - Mr. newbie himself lol...

I may find that my charcoal AND what I will have to use to precipitate my solution with will both contain pm values in the end.

 

[dtectr]

Richard,
Thanks for responding. I don't want you to feel that I'm being critical - being extremely new myself, I am VERY interested in a viable passive stripping system. Nursing a nasty nitric burn on the inside of my wrist has also been an incentive. I am just asking for clarification from the community, as you are as well. I've been trying to understand how the system suggested differs from what I already know. Part of the learning process for me.

And I understand your frustration as well - I got derailed at first by bad info. Good thing I'm stubborn! :lol: I have since been able to separate some of the good from the bad, as i build my understanding, not only of the "How's" but also the "Why's". I have a long way to go.
hang in there.
dtectr

 

[DarkspARCS]

wow, sorry to hear about your burn! I've undergone burns too, not through chemicals however, but when I had a damaged 200 amp electrical service panel I was attempting to safe off explode on me... which hospitalized me with 2nd & 3rd degree burns over 20% of my body.

Those things hurt.... :|

While I'm with you regards a simpler and safer system, which this post appeared to be, those who preceeded me found the process lacking. one person discovered success by following a patented process which included alcohol. My time with it has been a learning process and will continue to be until I succeed in literally learning this new 'trade', or skill.

I truly appreciate those folks like you, and Oz, Lou, Palladium, Harold, Richard, LaserSteve, GSP... I can relate to the folks on this forum, and find the wizards like Irons and Harold extremely educational lol, I sometimes wish people came attached with a readable book... some folks have experience I'd just love reading about!

 

[jimmyreece]

did you ever ash your carbon filter? i ended up with a yellowish/tan sponge. has to be a mix of metals like detecr said because my solution tested negative for pms and thegold is clearly stripped off the material i used. i just need to know from somebody if what i have in filter is nothing that could be harmful when attempting to smelt it.

 

[Astraveller]

It’ a long time since I last posted anything but I have been following this thread with interest. So much so that I took a bunch of gold plated bits and pieces and put them in some Iodine and left them for a few days.
Sure enough, the gold plating has been stripped and the base metals remain ,apparently unaffected.

I used iodine that I was able to obtain from a local farmers cooperative, it is Iodine 10% and Potassium Iodide 6%. I covered the components with about 400 ml of water and added 40 ml of the Iodine. In about 48 hours the liquid was clear and the fingers, cpus etc were stripped of gold and 2 days later the base material still had not been attacked as far as I could tell.

I did add a capful of hydrogen peroxide at the beginning, which I now regret because it was an unnecessary variable but it didn’t seem to have any affect.

At the beginning of the process (and I’m sorry I didn’t take a picture) the mixture was almost blood red and too dark to see through - over time it became lighter and eventually transparent. When it became transparent I noticed that most of the gold plate was gone but not all. I left it for another day or so and then all the gold plate was gone. And, as I say , the base metals are still intact.

The Pyrex jar now contains :-

De-plated components.
A Clear liquid.
A yellow or golden sediment that seems very light ie. Is easily disturbed and is not heavy.

Conclusion: The Gold has disappeared.

Assumption: It should be it the liquid or in the yellow sediment.

Question/s: Which? And how to get it back?

I realise that this post does not add to this thread very much but I would like to take it step by step to see if this idea has legs. I have downloaded all the links that have been provided so far and have read them and have endeavoured to understand them as far as my puny human mind can.

These are my results (photos) -settled and all shook-up. Any thoughts and reports would be welcomed.

 

[Aristo]

I have seen some members of this forum reprimanded, censured or had their priviledge revoked for a variety of reasons ranging from obscene and rude behaviour or to lesser infractions.
I would ,politely, like to question the moderators as to why the OP has not been reprimaned for apparently leading on falsely or misleading unsuspecting and honest enthusiasts who are simply trying to learn.
I do believe that there is a wealth of information and experience to be gleaned from this forum, however, there should be some examination of the posts by the "proven experts" prior to its publication or use. In the science of chemistry and metallurgy, there is no magic or as someone put it, witchcraft. Whether it is electronic scrap, ore or related precious metal bearing products, they are all governed by known science.
I would like to kindly urge those that are responsible to review this matter and, if there are no known scientific proof to what is being presented, some action should follow.
Thank you.

I thought idea of the use of iodine (at least in this post) was to selectively strip the gold without using strong acids or cyanide, not to dissolve the base metals & leave the gold behind, which every other process described here does, easier & cheaper.

The thread's title said as much... but it appears the title is misleading!

An alternative passive stripping system
by Shecker » September 15th, 2009, 2:27 pm

I have been experimenting with another passive stripping approach to e-scrap that seems well suited for such things as cpu's, pins, fingers, monolithic capacitors, etc. I've been using a dilute solution of veterinarian grasde Povidine Iodine. I make an iodine solution that has a thin red color (iodine water). This dissolves gold, silver, platinum, palladium, but does not react with lead, tin, aluminum, or copper. As the solution begins to become saturated it starts dropping out some discrete particles of precious metals. It will continue to do until the solution looses it stability and goes clear. I ran some CPU's today and after about two hours the precious metals were laying in the bottom of the container. No precipitation was required. Forum members working with iodine may give this try and report their observations.

Randy in Gunnison

Nowhere in this post - the post starting this topic - did Randy mention using "a small amount of hcl". In his third post, Randy was asked if it worked. He replied:

Just enough to make the water reddish-brown but you can still see through the solution. If the mixture becomes opaque add more water.

Water to reconstitute the iodine.Water to reconstitute the iodine?! This is where I changed 'water (H2O)' to 'Hydrogen Peroxide 3% (H2O2)'. This is how to get your "opaque" mixture back to the active reddish-brown it needs to be to work.

In his 4th post Randy states:

As the iodine is exhausted tiny bits of metal will fall to the bottom of whatever vessel you would use. There will also be a golden yellow solution left over which still contains gold. I recover most of that on carbon but I am still working on the residue gold left in solution.

Randy in Gunnison

This is where I got the info on using activated carbon to get my pm values out. I never saw ny 'bits of metal' as Randy described it.

After several people scrutinize his method (one person even including alohol in thier attempt) and report failures... all of them... Randy reappears and says:

I am sorry about this but I forgot to add that I add a small amount of HCl to get the pH slightly acidic. That and iodine water. And I don't care if it take takes 60 hours -- that is the whole idea of passive stripping. Mix it up and ignore it for awhile. And yet I do do it indoors.

Randy

Now Randy comes back with this 'oops...'. After my little attempt, Oz informs us that this is now no longer an iodine leach but now an AP solution.

This thread, at this point IMHO, is irrelevant, costly, and dangerous. It provided partial info that has cost several folks, including myself, time, money, and now possibly my gold.

If I cant find a viable method in recovering it after ashing and smelting my charcoal I'm going to flag this thread and ask for it to be removed so that other newbies like myself wont be fooled by it, or worse even, be harmed by it.

 

[butcher]

This seems to me to be an experiment in progress, to work out some details on a process, there is no doubt in my mind that Iodine/Iodide will leach gold and that it can be recovered, there seems to be some differences in how these are oxidized or reduced, many of the forum members are enjoying the experiment, I have not followed every word of this leaching method but I fail to see where you thing anyone is trying to deliberately mislead, I only see them trying to develop it.

Aristo, how would someone prove every work someone said, without redoing that under the same conditions, the moderators here do an excellent job of watch, I cannot think of much anything that gets past their experience or watchful eye, scams and charlatans if they ever miss one usually show up in the light of day. What and why are you asking this of our hardworking moderators?

 

[Aristo]

Greetings Butcher....

The purpose of my comment was to encourage the mods to be more vigilant for the benefit of newcomers and novices with respect to unknown or little known processes . I am sure you are aware of the potential hazards and danger of most of the processes , especially in the hands of novices.
I do respect and applaud the efforts of the mods, however, there are methods and processes, which have been identified as being beyond the realms of know science, that are touted here by some.
Naivety should not be punished, on the contrary, being misled should be discouraged.
My apologies if anyone was unintentionally offended.

 

[Astraveller]

Yes! This potentially is a very interesting process. One that was used before cyanide became a more viable alternative because it was cheaper. Times have changed. Aristo’s response puts me on ‘amber alert‘! He is well meaning I’m sure but a bit patronizing for certain.

I would love feedback from people who have knowledge of this process.

 

[butcher]

I have NO experience in the Iodine leach, but if I was to try it I do not believe carbon would be my choice, as I think I would prefer either reduction or a replacement reaction.

My concerns with ashing and burning the Iodine for recovery of gold from the carbon would be the fumes created, and Iodine being a halide whether the gold would volitize with the melt and vapor off in fumes, such as is possible with chlorine gas. Either of these concerns should be easy to determine from a little bit of studying. The iodine will vapor off, that is how it was discovered from burning seaweed, my question would be will it also make the gold volatile in this form?

Ariso, I have no doubt you can recover your gold, the question should be just how to do it.
Gold just will not disappear.

As refiners we are all responsible for our own health and the health of our family and others with these ventures we do, and we are also responsible for doing our own research on the risks and chemistry of reactions we dive into, yes we can take another’s recipe and try it out but we should also research the formula's, dangers and possible reactions or consequences, yes some is done on blind faith but without researching before jumping in we will not know if there is any water under that bridge.

Ariso I believe we all try to make this forum as truthful as possible and that processes posted are proven and in a sense we all MODERATE the forum, I am sure your concerns will be addressed, and I am also sure you will recover your gold, just do not do something you are not sure of.

you have been a member a long time why do we not hear from you very often?