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Well I got hoke on audio. I realized that this book is so out dated. That using it to refine and reclaim pms in today's erra, with the technological advancements in chemistry. It is for the most part been made obsolete. The techniques used today by most alchemist differ greatly. Unless you live in the 50s this book is of little value other than the combinations of reagents and the basic understanding of pms and set up of equipment and safety and disposal. It is found wanting. Sorry, that's my opinion.
 
Oh no he didn't.
Hoke's words are just as true today as then. And fundamentally, the processes are the same too. I also find the way it is written endearing.
"Just toss some gas on that till it's gone." :shock:
"A couple drops of HCl in a gallon of water tastes bitter....." :|
It's like June Clever's guide to AR-15 repair.
Alchemists try to make gold. Not reclaim and refine it.
 
Hoke's book is regarded in very high esteem here for good reason.

It teaches you how to familiarise yourself with reactions, and what processes are best for what material, and teaches you about testing your material, and so much more.

It was written for every day joe's, that dont have a background in chemistry. To me, that book is just as valuable as this forum, and I would be willing to bet, every member on this forum thats done this awhile would agree.

Fundamentals *that* is the book. ..True, she doesnt mention SMB...but SO2.. Did she deal with printed circuit boards and solder mask? No.. But she teaches the same *fundamental* principle, incineration.

A well revered man on this board, attained enough wisdom from the book to establish a 20 year commercial refining career from it, and was able to retire a good while ago. I am sure the book has impacted a lot more peoples' lives than just Harold in such a profound and remarkable way. But that is ome example that echoes through my mind, as it is an example of the great things that can come if you put in your time, do your studying, work hard, and treat people fairly.

Technology has come a long way since Hoke's time, true - i will not argue that. But, i will reflect upon the point that. Without the basic understanding of the systems in place before, there is no insight as to where improvement can successfully be done. Technology is a progression. Not a spontaneous revelation.

You cannot fill a cup which is already full my friend.

Edit to fix my typing blunders
 
Topher_osAUrus said:
Hoke's book is regarded in very high esteem here for good reason.

It teaches you how to familiarise yourself with reactions, and what processes are best for what material, and teaches you about testing your material, and so much more.

It was written for every day joe's, that dont have a background in chemistry. To me, that book is just as valuable as this forum, and I would be willing to bet, every member on this forum thats done this awhile would agree.

Fundamentals *that* is the book. ..True, she doesnt mention SMB...but SO2.. Did she deal with printed circuit boards and solder mask? No.. But she teaches the same *fundamental* principle, incineration.

A well revered man on this board, attained enough wisdom from the book to establish a 20 year commercial refining career from it, and was able to retire a good while ago. I am sure the book has impacted a lot more peoples' lives than just Harold in such a profound and remarkable way. But that is ome example that echoes through my mind, as it is an example of the great things that can come if you put in your time, do your studying, work hard, and treat people fairly.

Technology has come a long way since Hoke's time, true - i will not argue that. But, i will reflect upon the point that. Without the basic understanding of the systems in place before, there is no insight as to where improvement can successfully be done. Technology is a progression. Not a spontaneous revelation.

You cannot fill a cup which is already full my friend.

Edit to fix my typing blunders
Click to expand...
I agree, l 'm not saying that the book is flawed in it's course of reveling the proper way of refining pm or processes to recover and refine said materials. However, things have changed quit abit in perspective. Even though the basic fundamentals are stable in this environ of processing pm scrap. Even in the header it is explained to the readers, that it is outdated and one should further their research by means of other sources!
Hoke, explains how pm refining in it's beginning
Was performed by only a few trained individuals and succeeded by apprenticeship to continue it's secrecy. Although the apprenticeship has fallen from the picture. Some of the secrecy still remains. Reading here on this forum I've seen some member say they will not yield certain information, due to the fact it's has they provide for their family's. (Horses mouth)!
I may regret this and will probably get the shaft.
But, if you read most of these threads and some are loaded with lots of good info. But for the most part are stopped in the process by people teing others to study and read. I mean a lot of them end in this way. You ready can get loads of good information here. Tons of it. However it is scattered through out a lot of different threads! The fishing seems endless. And one of the main reasons of this. Is the excuse of people not wanting to repeat this information over and over again. But the read and study thing is produced on this forum more than the actual answers to the question of a individual question of the thread.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not denoting the information on this forum as almost all of it is fanomanal. But Its more like a jigsaw puzzle than a aid.
Like the other thread on how to improve the forum. One way would be to have in the process section, well noted procedure and clear instruction based on accumulation of factual scientific data on the process. After talking to a chemist friend of mine and putting forth ideas of reclaiming and refining metals. He told me. Sure, there are a few different ways to accomish raids tasks. But there is only one way to preform said actions properly. He also told me almost any nitrate could be used to make some sort of aqua regia. Except calcium nitrate. But, there is only one way to do it properly.
Y'all have a good one, may you drop a ton of pms
 
Gold recovery and refining is not suitable hobby for impatient people. It will take many years to master and learning is rather never-ending process.
 
Derek, you might want to review palladium reduction, a thread Geo just started about palladium he recovers from electronics.

You cannot learn all she teaches by listening to the book one time. I've read it at least a half dozen times and I learn more every time.

Dave
 
patnor1011 said:
Gold recovery and refining is not suitable hobby for impatient people. It will take many years to master and learning is rather never-ending process.
Click to expand...
I was told the same thing about falconry, and you know what I'm a pretty dang good falconer. With a wonderful understand of training birds of prey and hunting with them. Its not that I'm inpatient but move faster than others. And to better suit, some of the brightest minds in human history appeared to be impatient. Often bordering phycotic! "To compare impatience to passionate is a common anomaly is human nature!" But all is forgiven. Falconry and future. Can't expect everyone to know this.
 
One only makes mistakes or gose adtray for two reasons, 1 not paying attention and 2 wrong or lacking information! I'm paying attention. And now with audio I'm done with hoke. I'll post a few questions on that if anyone still cares to answers.
Thank you.
 
FrugalRefiner said:
Derek, you might want to review palladium reduction, a thread Geo just started about palladium he recovers from electronics.

You cannot learn all she teaches by listening to the book one time. I've read it at least a half dozen times and I learn more every time.

Dave
Click to expand...
Apperantly you can't! You don't know me,I'm highly audio graphic. I type slow as crap and read slower.
But if we have a conversation now and you record it I will repeat in word for word in 20 years.
 
Right now all I'm lacking is experiance. I got my answers to kovar and reading your forum now for another answers. The only thing that takes time is sifting through the threads to find answers because there not all in one place like a book.
 
I finally scheduled two whole weeks off of work coming up soon. I was thinking I might try to get a bunch of processing done since I will be house sitting for my in-laws and have a place to keep watch over my solutions and all.

But if it will help, I can spend that time reading the whole forum to copy and paste all the information you might need into a format that will suit you.

That way you won't have to spend countless years learning this stuff like the rest of us. Hell, since we are holding you back, I'll just call out of work tomorrow and go ahead and get started on that.
 
Myfalconry
There is a very large difference in training birds of prey and recovery and refining of precious metals.
The major difference is if you get the processes or chemicals wrong they can injure or even kill you.
Do you really know already exactly what will happen when you add different reagents together or put different metals into acids?
The reason we promote Hoke is because it gives the reader the basics of the chemistry involved as well as many processes which are still utilised today, maybe in a slightly different manner but still valid processes.
Without that basic understanding whatever the members ,who can be bothered to post, write will be gibberish in the main needing hours of continuous updating so the OP can follow what has been advised or so they can follow the discussion.
I don't get paid to help you or anyone else nor do any other members or the moderators, we all do this for free to try and help and promote safe working and responsible behaviour in regards to the toxic wastes and toxic fumes we produce.
I'm not saying some people cannot learn faster than others but I personally have been in the refining world for over 30 years and I still learn something nearly every day and I'm sure many of the senior members of the forum would echo that, we all also make mistakes and with this particular field they can be fatal ones but by reading and learning you know as you do something that is wrong and can react without putting yourself or others in danger.
To put it simply no one knows it all when it comes to recovery and refining they are just such a huge field of science, you use your success in falconry to base your view that you can do outrun the teachings of HOke and the forum, I learnt to cook and I'm pretty good with most styles of cuisine but does that mean you would let me operate on you should you need it?
 
nickvc said:
Myfalconry
There is a very large difference in training birds of prey and recovery and refining of precious metals.
The major difference is if you get the processes or chemicals wrong they can injure or even kill you.
Do you really know already exactly what will happen when you add different reagents together or put different metals into acids?
The reason we promote Hoke is because it gives the reader the basics of the chemistry involved as well as many processes which are still utilised today, maybe in a slightly different manner but still valid processes.
Without that basic understanding whatever the members ,who can be bothered to post, write will be gibberish in the main needing hours of continuous updating so the OP can follow what has been advised or so they can follow the discussion.
I don't get paid to help you or anyone else nor do any other members or the moderators, we all do this for free to try and help and promote safe working and responsible behaviour in regards to the toxic wastes and toxic fumes we produce.
I'm not saying some people cannot learn faster than others but I personally have been in the refining world for over 30 years and I still learn something nearly every day and I'm sure many of the senior members of the forum would echo that, we all also make mistakes and with this particular field they can be fatal ones but by reading and learning you know as you do something that is wrong and can react without putting yourself or others in danger.
To put it simply no one knows it all when it comes to recovery and refining they are just such a huge field of science, you use your success in falconry to base your view that you can do outrun the teachings of HOke and the forum, I learnt to cook and I'm pretty good with most styles of cuisine but does that mean you would let me operate on you should you need it?
Click to expand...
I understand I do really! And with falconry If you train a raptor And do it wrong especially with imprints, you will end up hurt. For every action or process in life there are basic fundamentals that guid you to knowledge. Wherer it be falconry, mechanics physics, gold refining and even driving a car. Hoke gives excellent information. And though I remember and understand safety, chemicals and processes of recovery of pm. I was just simpley saying that it is lacking in its instruction on the process of the material that most come here to work with. I have not learned anything much yet and agree that everyday in many factors I will learn something new. But I do remember hoke and what it teaches. And though process dose not differ greatly many small factors in chemicals used can cause issues.
Thank you for a kind none sarcastic response. I will continue to learn.
 
UncleBenBen said:
I finally scheduled two whole weeks off of work coming up soon. I was thinking I might try to get a bunch of processing done since I will be house sitting for my in-laws and have a place to keep watch over my solutions and all.

But if it will help, I can spend that time reading the whole forum to copy and paste all the information you might need into a format that will suit you.

That way you won't have to spend countless years learning this stuff like the rest of us. Hell, since we are holding you back, I'll just call out of work tomorrow and go ahead and get started on that.
Click to expand...
Here is a better idea Mr smartly pants. Write a book on processing computer scrap in detail. I'll by one! :p
 
myfalconry76 said:
Here is a better idea Mr smartly pants. Write a book on processing computer scrap in detail. I'll by one!
Click to expand...

Haha! I can't help it. The sarcasm really is genetic. And I do get it honest!

I didn't write it, but GSPs book is worth way more than the $35 he sells it for. I highly recommend it. Great source of info on e-scrap.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=22327&p=233617#p233617

P.S. Still would like to see some pics of your bird(s)!
 
OK, let's tone it down a notch everyone. myfalconry, you got off to a rough start here. A lot of people do. Many get through it and become valuable members of the forum, including some of our moderators. There are quite a few members here who are dyslexic, including some of our moderators (I'm one of them). If you truly have an eidetic memory (audio graphic isn't a recognized term outside of an urban dictionary), that's great for you! Just keep in mind that the ability to repeat something verbatim, and the ability to understand what those words mean can be two different things.

So let's try to get off to a fresh start. You'll find a treasure trove of information here, but it's not a book. This site was created as a forum, so by its nature, the information is scattered around. That's certainly not the most efficient or convenient format, but it is what it is. I wish you the best of luck in your journey here. We're here to help if you need it. I always recommend new members visit the Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread.

Dave
 
Myfalconry
You response heartens me, take your time this is not something to rush into, you will get it, you will recover and refine, spend time doing what we all hate in honesty studying, it will pay off, you will come to regard it as time well spent.
Slow down and enjoy the journey, it's a world of horror and suspense and with the right knowledge gratification at the end, I'm not here to kill your dreams but feed them, without imagination and the correct information all hopes are dreams that become nightmares.
You can do this, no you don't need to be a Nobel prize winner, I'm not, I'm just an average guy who learnt the hard and expensive way how to recover and refine, you don't need to learn that way, it's all here and free, you just have to apply yourself!
I wish you luck and hope to one day see your first buttons 8)
 
Most people will sit down and read a book like Hoke, or any technical book for that matter, and just have all of the words on the page blend together in a blob.

The most valuable thing for a new refiner is the ability to recognize when things are happening. Hoke suggests some familiarization tests which any new refiner should do. Get out of your head recovery or refining and build a foundation based on visually seeing what a positive stain is for gold looks like by doing small scale, test tube sized reactions. Read and when you recognize that a test is being described, stop, make notes of what you will need to do the same test, and do it. Don't read on because it will all blend together in your brain and you will get nothing out of it.

Learn the tests, see what the results look like first hand, and you will have a foundation of refining knowledge that will stay with you.
 

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