ceramic processor question

[myfalconry76]

Most people will sit down and read a book like Hoke, or any technical book for that matter, and just have all of the words on the page blend together in a blob.

The most valuable thing for a new refiner is the ability to recognize when things are happening. Hoke suggests some familiarization tests which any new refiner should do. Get out of your head recovery or refining and build a foundation based on visually seeing what a positive stain is for gold looks like by doing small scale, test tube sized reactions. Read and when you recognize that a test is being described, stop, make notes of what you will need to do the same test, and do it. Don't read on because it will all blend together in your brain and you will get nothing out of it.

Learn the tests, see what the results look like first hand, and you will have a foundation of refining knowledge that will stay with you.

I kinda started doing this. Iv taken the most common metals found in computer scrap and to see how each one reacts in hcl. Put a piece of each in seperate contatainers. (I have not done it with any noble metals yet.) took notes on each. How long it took to disolve, temp, color and extra.
I will have some nitric acid tomorrow. I have a small portion of gold set aside for my first attempt at refining. I under stand the math behind it and have my calculations worked out I believe. I could be wrong. And some if not most of it is based on what I gathered from Hokes book.

 

[myfalconry76]

Here is a better idea Mr smartly pants. Write a book on processing computer scrap in detail. I'll by one!

Haha! I can't help it. The sarcasm really is genetic. And I do get it honest!

I didn't write it, but GSPs book is worth way more than the $35 he sells it for. I highly recommend it. Great source of info on e-scrap.



P.S. Still would like to see some pics of your bird(s)!

It's ok no offence taken! Here you go.

 

[myfalconry76]

Try this again. Here's my American kestrek north America's smallest. Falcon

 

[myfalconry76]

me and my Harris hawk

 

[myfalconry76]

a hunting trip with my red tailed hawk.

 

[myfalconry76]

I have a ton more, but they will have to star charging me for storage.

 

[UncleBenBen]

Very nice! Gorgeous birds!! I had a chance at getting apprenticed into falconry once. At the time I thought I had landed a contract to work two years in the Virgin Islands so I passed it up. By the time the contract fell through I had lost my chance with the birds.

Thanks for giving me some sarcasm back. I love it! I really do recommend GSP's book. It's a good one! 8)

Start a thread about them in bar and grill. I'm sure the mods would be OK with it.

 

[myfalconry76]

Very nice! Gorgeous birds!! I had a chance at getting apprenticed into falconry once. At the time I thought I had landed a contract to work two years in the Virgin Islands so I passed it up. By the time the contract fell through I had lost my chance with the birds.

Thanks for giving me some sarcasm back. I love it! I really do recommend GSP's book. It's a good one! 8)

Start a thread about them in bar and grill. I'm sure the mods would be OK with it.

Thank you for the advice, I may start a thread in bar and grill. Its a very rewarding experiance and you still have a chance. The studying and exam is the hardest part. That and finding a good sponsor for your apprenticeship very important. I'm banning on trapping a prairie falcone in November And get serious about hunting duck this year!

 

[myfalconry76]

First successful stannos test hope the rest of the process hose this easy

 

[UncleBenBen]

Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!

 

[myfalconry76]

Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!

Its definitely purple. One problem I may have and could use a tad bit of advice. I read here on the forum that it's not recommended to use urea to neutralize nitric acid. I've been adding little doses of nitric waiting for the reaction to stop. When I no longer see a reaction from the nitric, dose that mean it's done when there is no fizz and the gold is disolved? And hokes book says to boil off exces nitric then add more hcl. Any advice on that would be helpful? And what exactly happens to the nitric? Dose it do it's jod then go away or is it still there?

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!

Its definitely purple. One problem I may have and could use a tad bit of advice. I read here on the forum that it's not recommended to use urea to neutralize nitric acid. I've been adding little doses of nitric waiting for the reaction to stop. When I no longer see a reaction from the nitric, dose that mean it's done when there is no fizz and the gold is disolved? And hokes book says to boil off exces nitric then add more hcl. Any advice on that would be helpful? And what exactly happens to the nitric? Dose it do it's jod then go away or is it still there?

Correct sir, urea just causes problems, especially if you have pgm's to deal with. -sulfamic acid is the preferred "quick method" to remove excess nitric, the bonus is it turns nitric to sulfuric and helps you to be able to filter off lead sulfate.

Try a little addition of HCl, if there is no more reaction after a while, I would say it is complete (depends on if you have the solution running hot or ambient temperature though, cold takes longer and isnt as noticeable at times)

Yes, Hoke speaks of evaporating Nitric from solution 3 times, try not to boil it, you will lose values. Nobody likes that! And, pay close attention to the small bubbles forming at the surface, when they start to come about, that is telling you nitric is close to its azeotrope in solution and can effervesce (and violently!) also making one lose their precious gold.

Sometimes i wish nitric just did its job then went away, but alas, it does not. It can decompose over time, and with heat as well, but it generally needs some coercing to get removed completely, so filtration and precipitation can be achieved without destroying filter paper and you are not redissolving your gold immediately after ppt.

Harold has given us a great trick, where an added button (of known weight) can be added while evaporating nitric off, it makes it go much quicker. Since nitric is being evaporated, and used to work on some more gold.

Hope this helps, awesome birds you have there as well! Thanks for sharing.
Topher

 

[Phishin_ca]

Right on! Looks like Purple of Cassius to me!!

Its definitely purple. One problem I may have and could use a tad bit of advice. I read here on the forum that it's not recommended to use urea to neutralize nitric acid. I've been adding little doses of nitric waiting for the reaction to stop. When I no longer see a reaction from the nitric, dose that mean it's done when there is no fizz and the gold is disolved? And hokes book says to boil off exces nitric then add more hcl. Any advice on that would be helpful? And what exactly happens to the nitric? Dose it do it's jod then go away or is it still there?

I believe urea has fallen out of favor. I know of 2 commonly accepted methods.
1. Sulfamic Acid (search for "Sulfamic Denox")
2. Drop a gold button of known weight into the solution. It must be large enough to use up the remaining nitric acid. (search for "harold nitric button denox")

Shawn

 

[UncleBenBen]

it looks like Topher and phishin got it!

A little more about what Topher mentioned about the addition of HCl. Sometimes when adding the nitric (or nitrate for poor man's AR) you will get no reaction, or just a slight one. Always add more HCl at this point to make sure the reaction didn't stop because of a lack of HCl instead of the lack metals left to dissolve. Excess HCl won't cause problems like excess nitric will.

When Hoke speaks of evaporating(don't boil gold solutions) and adding HCl, that is one of the means of dealing with excess nitric. Doing as you are by adding small amounts of nitric will leave very little if any extra to deal with. Then all it takes is bit of sulfamic acid instead of hours and hours of evaporation.

The sulfamic acid reacts with any nitric left in solution to produce a bit of sulfuric acid, nitrous oxide gas, and water. The sulfuric, as the guys mentioned gives the added benefit of converting any lead to its insoluble sulfate to be filtered out prior to precipitating the gold.

Looks like you are picking it right up bird man! Keep it up. Soon you will be just as hooked and crazy as the rest of us! Bwahahaha!

Ben

 

[myfalconry76]

Bigolly it ain't rocket surgery!!! :lol:
This was a bit of solution I dipped out for a test run. Looks like the other stuff I've seen. What do y'all think? Dropping the rest now. It may need one more AR treatment and a hcl was. Then I should be good to melt. I'll post a pick of the rest. When it settles and gets filterd!

 

[myfalconry76]

it looks like Topher and phishin got it!

A little more about what Topher mentioned about the addition of HCl. Sometimes when adding the nitric (or nitrate for poor man's AR) you will get no reaction, or just a slight one. Always add more HCl at this point to make sure the reaction didn't stop because of a lack of HCl instead of the lack metals left to dissolve. Excess HCl won't cause problems like excess nitric will.

When Hoke speaks of evaporating(don't boil gold solutions) and adding HCl, that is one of the means of dealing with excess nitric. Doing as you are by adding small amounts of nitric will leave very little if any extra to deal with. Then all it takes is bit of sulfamic acid instead of hours and hours of evaporation.

The sulfamic acid reacts with any nitric left in solution to produce a bit of sulfuric acid, nitrous oxide gas, and water. The sulfuric, as the guys mentioned gives the added benefit of converting any lead to its insoluble sulfate to be filtered out prior to precipitating the gold.

Looks like you are picking it right up bird man! Keep it up. Soon you will be just as hooked and crazy as the rest of us! Bwahahaha!

Ben

I don't know you but something tells me you were crazy befor you started.
I know I am. I think I got it this time. Now if I can just replicate what I did over and over again.

 

[Phishin_ca]

it looks like Topher and phishin got it!

A little more about what Topher mentioned about the addition of HCl. Sometimes when adding the nitric (or nitrate for poor man's AR) you will get no reaction, or just a slight one. Always add more HCl at this point to make sure the reaction didn't stop because of a lack of HCl instead of the lack metals left to dissolve. Excess HCl won't cause problems like excess nitric will.

When Hoke speaks of evaporating(don't boil gold solutions) and adding HCl, that is one of the means of dealing with excess nitric. Doing as you are by adding small amounts of nitric will leave very little if any extra to deal with. Then all it takes is bit of sulfamic acid instead of hours and hours of evaporation.

The sulfamic acid reacts with any nitric left in solution to produce a bit of sulfuric acid, nitrous oxide gas, and water. The sulfuric, as the guys mentioned gives the added benefit of converting any lead to its insoluble sulfate to be filtered out prior to precipitating the gold.

Looks like you are picking it right up bird man! Keep it up. Soon you will be just as hooked and crazy as the rest of us! Bwahahaha!

Ben

I don't know you but something tells me you were crazy befor you started.
I know I am. I think I got it this time. Now if I can just replicate what I did over and over again.

It may just be me, but I have been doing minuscule amounts of material over and over again. I learn something each time, and I get more confident. That or I am certifiable... Like Ben :lol:

In all seriousness, I have produced a lot more waste than required and yielded far less than expected. The knowledge gained is worth more than anything to me, even if I never mess with it again! Precipitating gold and watching the brown powder melt into shiny gold is pretty awesome.

Going to pick up 2 racks of decommissioned Sun servers and a SAN this weekend. Time to collect some more material!

 

[myfalconry76]

it looks like Topher and phishin got it!

A little more about what Topher mentioned about the addition of HCl. Sometimes when adding the nitric (or nitrate for poor man's AR) you will get no reaction, or just a slight one. Always add more HCl at this point to make sure the reaction didn't stop because of a lack of HCl instead of the lack metals left to dissolve. Excess HCl won't cause problems like excess nitric will.

When Hoke speaks of evaporating(don't boil gold solutions) and adding HCl, that is one of the means of dealing with excess nitric. Doing as you are by adding small amounts of nitric will leave very little if any extra to deal with. Then all it takes is bit of sulfamic acid instead of hours and hours of evaporation.

The sulfamic acid reacts with any nitric left in solution to produce a bit of sulfuric acid, nitrous oxide gas, and water. The sulfuric, as the guys mentioned gives the added benefit of converting any lead to its insoluble sulfate to be filtered out prior to precipitating the gold.

Looks like you are picking it right up bird man! Keep it up. Soon you will be just as hooked and crazy as the rest of us! Bwahahaha!

Ben

I don't know you but something tells me you were crazy befor you started.
I know I am. I think I got it this time. Now if I can just replicate what I did over and over again.

It may just be me, but I have been doing minuscule amounts of material over and over again. I learn something each time, and I get more confident. That or I am certifiable... Like Ben :lol:

In all seriousness, I have produced a lot more waste than required and yielded far less than expected. The knowledge gained is worth more than anything to me, even if I never mess with it again! Precipitating gold and watching the brown powder melt into shiny gold is pretty awesome.

Going to pick up 2 racks of decommissioned Sun servers and a SAN this weekend. Time to collect some more material!

I'm going to pick up another ten pound of ram in the mourning. The best thing is it's free. There's no one around here that deals with it and all the computer stores haul it to the dump. A few of them decided to let me have the stuff as long as I come get it. Ain't nothing Like free money. And your right it is a rewarding learning experiance. I will admit there was a long sigh of relief when I seen it precipitate to the bottom of the jar. Thank y'all for the help! Very greatful.

 

[UncleBenBen]

That or I am certifiable... Like Ben

I don't know you but something tells me you were crazy befor you started.

Well, I did meet my wife at a psychiatric hospital! She was a nurse there, and I was doing some electric work. It worked out pretty well. I get my therapy for free now! :lol: :lol:

Edit: Whether I want it or not... :roll: :lol:

 

[myfalconry76]

That or I am certifiable... Like Ben

I don't know you but something tells me you were crazy befor you started.

Well, I did meet my wife at a psychiatric hospital! She was a nurse there, and I was doing some electric work. It worked out pretty well. I get my therapy for free now! :lol: :lol:

Edit: Whether I want it or not... :roll: :lol:

Electrical work! Gotcha.