Copper cell

[kurtak]

She made me 4 bags that were double layer with draw strings for $20. (She provided the material)

Rick

You do not need to "double layer" the Walmart muslin - it is a "tight" weave muslin to start with - which is why I use it

When I first started running my silver cell (many years ago now) I was getting my muslin from Joe Ann Fabrics

the weave was not a tight weave - I had to go to a double layer because with a single layer slimes would go through the weave & contaminate my silver

That would happen when I lifted the anode basket out of the cell

Then I found the Walmart muslin - MUCH tighter weave

Out of habit (using Joe Ann muslin) I doubled the Walmart muslin as well - what I found was doing so actually interfered with current flow (current ran less then normal) so I went to a single layer - current went back to normal & the weave is tight enough to hold the slimes

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

As an added note to my last post

Doubling the Walmart muslin actually caused another problem as a result of limiting the current flow

Because of the current being limited - the slimes would not fall off the anodes but instead hold to the anodes like a "packed" clay mud

As the cell ran it would reach a point where the mud - being stuck to the anodes - would prevent the electrolyte from getting fully to the anodes & the current would start dropping off to a point of near shut down - "before" - the cell was done running --- & the slimes had more silver in them

So I would have to pull the anodes & wash the mud off using a stiff brush to get the heavy mud (slimes) off the anodes & then re-start the cell with the cleaned anodes --- it took doing this three times with that first run doubling the Walmart muslin

At first I just figured it had something to do with the anodes --- so I did it again the next time I ran the cell with the same results

That's when I figured out the current was being limited by the double layer of Walmart's muslin so went to a single layer muslin & have not had that problem since

That said - I run my cell as a thumb cell so the anodes sit on top the muslin in a basket which "may" also contribute to the slimes not falling off (along with limiting current)

so if you are "hanging" the anodes in a bag the double layer may not be a problem - I can only "assume" that as long as the bag is not touching the anode - the slime may - or not fall off

Kurt

 

[rickzeien]

Thanks Kurt. I will test it both ways and post the results here.

I have a lot to learn in this area (and many areas as well) All tips, tricks and advise is welcome.

Also for all, don't be shy, ask any and all questions you have on this build. If I don't have any answer the experience and knowledge is here from more seasoned members or as part of the previous posts.

I am 62 years young and having the time of my life with this stuff.

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[rickzeien]

Decided to "harvest" the copper from the cathode.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13PSTmpBjy7Apcaa005jkcuKy3s0-yORj/view?usp=drivesdk

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[Lou]

She made me 4 bags that were double layer with draw strings for $20. (She provided the material)

Rick

You do not need to "double layer" the Walmart muslin - it is a "tight" weave muslin to start with - which is why I use it

When I first started running my silver cell (many years ago now) I was getting my muslin from Joe Ann Fabrics

the weave was not a tight weave - I had to go to a double layer because with a single layer slimes would go through the weave & contaminate my silver

That would happen when I lifted the anode basket out of the cell

Then I found the Walmart muslin - MUCH tighter weave

Out of habit (using Joe Ann muslin) I doubled the Walmart muslin as well - what I found was doing so actually interfered with current flow (current ran less then normal) so I went to a single layer - current went back to normal & the weave is tight enough to hold the slimes

Kurt

That was my exact experience.

 

[Shark]

Looking forward to the progress!

What are you using as the power supply?

 

[Lou]

Rick,


Look into thiourea or gelatin for leveling out the cathode deposit. Somewhere here GSP (RIP) posted some good stuff on a copper cell and when I tried it, everything went text book.

 

[rickzeien]

Rick,


Look into thiourea or gelatin for leveling out the cathode deposit. Somewhere here GSP (RIP) posted some good stuff on a copper cell and when I tried it, everything went text book.

I will! I am getting a little cathode loading at the base of the cathodes.


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[rickzeien]

Looking forward to the progress!

What are you using as the power supply?

It is a Sorensen. I forget the model but I will be adding that info and pictures to this thread soon. Both the Voltage settings and the corresponding amperage it ran at.



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[seb.damX]

Congrats, Rick

I am a rookie member here and read so many interesting things here on a daily base,
but I have to leave a comment here because I am deeply impressed.

This looks beautiful! Your design looks pretty scalable and clean to handle.
Also your idea of pooring into long triangle molds is imo great!

May I ask you what kind of material you feed in? To get an idea of recipe composing?
Is it a mix of non-ferrous pmg ewaste with added copper to get above 95%?

best regards and looking forward to see you installing the titanium gasket! ;-)

Sebastian

 

[rickzeien]

Congrats, Rick

I am a rookie member here and read so many interesting things here on a daily base,
but I have to leave a comment here because I am deeply impressed.

This looks beautiful! Your design looks pretty scalable and clean to handle.
Also your idea of pooring into long triangle molds is imo great!

May I ask you what kind of material you feed in? To get an idea of recipe composing?
Is it a mix of non-ferrous pmg ewaste with added copper to get above 95%?

best regards and looking forward to see you installing the titanium gasket! ;-)

Sebastian

Thanks.

The copper is a collector metal for smelting trial I am conducting. It is a gold bearing ore with some silver and various other base metals. It has been gravity concentrated.

I recieved titanium anode basket yesterday an I will get to modifications soon. So stay tuned.

FYI. I picked up some gelatin that was suggested by Lou to use as a leveling additive. I will post the results soon.



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[rickzeien]

Here is a video update. It addresses several components.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1514wU6_YLA1QxoQpCYa0k1pd0zbw9rM-/view?usp=drivesdk

Edited to upload correct video.

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[seb.damX]

Hi Rick

Thanks for sharing a more detailled view on the overall setup. Smart move to make two out of one, since they don´t have to win a beauty contest. :wink: Looking forward to see this in action. I allready expexcted something like a daisy chain - the rack looked like it was intended to be scaled up.

Now you mentioned, you will gather 3 PMs in 3 different tanks. How would that be done in practice?
Do you already have a possible approach for this?

All the best for you and your project !


Sebastian

 

[rickzeien]

Sebastian,

Sorry for the confusion. The cell I am working on now is for copper.

The other 2 will be for silver. 1 of those will be a rougher cell and the other to finish. (More on these later). Both will be the same basic design.

All three cells will capture any precious metals that may be in the slimes.

Going forward I will try to limit this discussion to copper as to not create confusion.

Thanks

 

[nickvc]

Rick nice set up but beware the fumes as any metal exposed will rot fairly quickly.
One point I would make is do not use shot for the cells, why? The vast majority of the metals in the slimes will be your basic feed stock, silver or copper in your case, by putting shot in you will vastly increase the amount of those metals In your slimes with pieces that have either pacified or not been in contact with the current, with bars parts that have fallen off you simply rinse off and remelt with shot that is not very practical.
To see my point watch sreetips videos on YouTube where he refined the slimes from his silver cell, he had to dissolve loads of silver shot before even starting to recover the other values making the use of a cell almost pointless. The real beauty of cells is the lack of effort required once up and running the big bug bear is the fouling of the electrolytes but as you have your own analytic set up you should be able to control them and be able to run fairly easily.
With a silver breakdown cell you can simply add more nitric to the electrolyte, removing your feedstock first, and dissolve some of the already refined silver to increase the silver percentage in your solution to stop co depositing of other metals, this obviously causes fumes that need venting but can increase the running time of the electrolyte considerably.

 

[rickzeien]

nickvc,

Thanks for your input. I am going to try using the cone mold tips directly in the basket. Just waiting to build up a few more to start. (Been side tracked by a few other projects but I will be back at it soon)

I did experience the incomplete digestion and pasification you described with the cornflake shot I made.

I will post here once I get a chance to try.

Rick,

 

[nickvc]

Rick I think you may still have problems with the cone mold tips, I’d melt them into a bar.
If you use a plastic colander type of unit to suspend your anodes you can line it with filter cloth to catch the slimes and load bars as they need replacing.

 

[Shark]

When I started playing with my smaller cells I had problems with shot also. As Nick describes it, keeping contact was a real pain. If you agitate the shot, you disturb the slime's that came off also. For me the real headache was the slime's migrating through the filter bags from the disturbance. It may work better with bigger, heavier pieces, but I would think eventually they will be small enough to cause some problems as well. My best were made in a cast iron skillet that sat on an angle where the resulting plates were thicker on one side. Stacked right in a basket such as yours they would break down more evenly and leave fewer chunks of copper behind. As they were broke down, I also had less disturbance in the slime's as well. It is possible that using a larger cell could alleviate some of the problems I had. I really enjoy your posts on your progress, they make me want to try more methods as well.

 

[rickzeien]

Shark,

Thanks for the information. I like the tilted frying pan mold to make a tapered plate.

It gave me a few more ideas.

Best,

Rick

 

[rickzeien]

I have been busier than a 1 armed paper hanger.

Here is an update video. Made a few tweaks.

[I meant 10 gallons of electrolyte not 10 pounds]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N4CkssfUh9vQJd2DK8CVxQAezLYDkg-z/view?usp=drivesdk

From Sharks post. [I did not use any of their additive but I did add a small amount of Knox gelatin per Lou's advice]

https://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voliii/consumbl/cplatmix.htm

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