Designing a DIY silver cell

[snoman701]

Small version of TBRC furnance would make my life so much easier Now, we need to proceed with our 30kW induction furnance veteran. But small tilting furnance was planned to be built... Thanks for reviving and improving my view about what could be best suited for our use.

Absolutely! I started building one that I could prove out with a 10lb melt until I realized that while I could comfortably get the lot molten, dealing with the exhaust is another story entirely for a guy in his garage. Lead and Zinc will both recondense quite well, but you still have to deal with hot gasses that need to be cooled before they can be filtered.

As for the cell. My interest is a cell that is readily available from parts, 100-500 oz / wk and being able to treat the waste is really important.

Breakdown cells are cool too.

 

[netgeek3]

Poll answers:
1,c - production is what I care about
2,b or c anywhere in this range works
3,b
4,g - I think it would be good to properly explore all of these and the options available

 

[4metals]

Since it's been a week with no more input and the response was quite underwhelming, I am going to pick a number of 1000 oz a week to explore. That's about 31 kg a week or 4.4 kg per 24 hour day. A satisfying quantity of Silver to harvest every morning for a small refiner.

If no-one complains about the, quantity of production I'll start tomorrow with the calculations for this size.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

You may not hear from me, but I'll be lurking and taking notes the whole way.

Dave

 

[grainsofgold]

what’s the best design for a thum cell - round steel tank or the traditional rectangular one we see a lot off ?

In regards to the power supply - is there a type which is better than others to use and what voltage and amp specs are ideal ?

Thanks.

GOG.

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

I find this post very interesting, apparently on the same problem



Hello friends I would like to introduce myself in a few words: I am 33 years old passionate about metals I intend to become a professional in the circles, I want to be a tester later refiner.



some pictures of what I'm already doing.

Note that my cell consists of a stainless steel pot for the negative cathode.


here a small pretty collection of silver 999/1000 5 (SPECTRO 3SEC)



behind here are more pictures of the money.



I specify here that my cell must be in 8 liters.







For the anode, I use a plastic container, and dacron as a particle filter, to avoid disturbing my electrolyte. for the power supply I simply used an old computer power supply, I run at 3.5v, no memory for the amperage.



I tried other voltage 5.5 volt, 12 volt, I notice 2



1) I feel like but crystals form faster with higher voltage V (and I imagine the intensity increased too)


2) the higher the voltage, the more I actually have a small anarchic dendrite, which sometimes short-circuits my cell

all this works very well sometimes by analyzing the spectrometer I come across 999,

Last time I tried to come away with 850/1000 title money. the result was similar, I still noticed more anodiac mud than usual and faster blue/green saturation




you will therefore have understood that I am not a professional but rather a confirmed amateur.



for me for a few kg per month.



today I have a person who came to see me and offered to leave me 10 kg per week to start then to go to 20 kg.



So I ask you the question, is it possible? how would you see the cell?

do you have any idea of the ideal cell size? of its shape?
what type of thumb/moebius cell?

tomorrow I will select bins I will take a picture of them to possibly have the consent of certain groups on the subject.

I mark you in bold the questions that I ask myself, please I ask you for answers I need help

I specify that I intend to start with an 80 liter cell of rectangular shape in pehd or pp plastic. I intend to line this 80 L plastic rectangle with a 2 or 3 mm stainless steel sheet.

I also plan to put vertical cathodes every 30 cm to increase the cathodic surface.

For the anode it will be Ag shot already treated with nitric and reduced on copper.


1) I heard on some forums that the maximum voltage was 3.8 volts above the risk of copper deposit if present (in my case very often Ag/Cu alloy). do you confirm this phenomenon?
what is the best voltage to work I read in the discussion that some pass in 6 volt without problem


2) if it is necessary to work efficiently with a low tension, in this case I suppose that it is the intensity I(A) which will play an important role in the formation of the crystals? what intensity do you recommend?


3) how can I quantify copper in solution without using spectrometry?


4) do you have an idea of the material that I should use for this scale, namely to do 20 kg / week
for a first start I would be happy with already 10 kg


5) is there a physical law to calculate the desired quantity of matter according to the intensity of the cell's litration voltage, the mass concentration, the anode/cathode exchange surface?


6) in the end with what purity can we start the electrolysis to have a cathode listed at 999?


7) I have never calculated the resistance of my cell, how can I proceed?


8) What power supply do you recommend, what device to deliver direct current?
what type of block max voltage max amperage


9) Do we agree that the bigger the cell, the more deposits, or does size have nothing to do with it?


thank you for answering my questions by telling me 1) 2) 3) for those who know of course thank you

 

[Yggdrasil]

Je trouve ce post très intéressant, apparemment sur le même problème

Bonjour les amis je voudrais me présenter en quelques mots : j'ai 33 ans passionné par les métaux je compte devenir professionnel dans les milieux , je souhaite être testeur plus tard affineur .

quelques photos de ce que je fais déjà.
A noté que ma cellule est constituée d'une marmite en inox pour la cathode négative.
View attachment 52218

ici une petite jolie collection d'argent 999/1000 5 (SPECTRO 3SEC)

derrière voici d'autres photos de l'argent.

Je précise ici que ma cellule doit être en 8 litres.



Pour l'anode, j'utilise un récipient en plastique, et du dacron comme filtre à particules, pour éviter de troubler mon électrolyte. pour l'alim j'ai simplement utilisé une ancienne alim d'ordinateur, je tourne en 3.5v pas de mémoire pour l'ampérage.

j'ai essayé d'autre tension 5,5 volt, 12 volt, j'en remarque 2

1) J'ai l'impression que mais les cristaux se forment plus vite avec une tension V plus élevée

(et j'imagine que l'intensité a augmenté aussi)

2) plus la tension est élevée, plus j'ai effectivement une petite dendrite anarchique, qui parfois court-circuite ma cellule


tout cela marche très bien parfois en analysant le spectromètre je tombe sur 999,

La dernière fois, j'ai essayé de repartir avec 850/1000 d'argent de titre. le résultat était similaire, j'ai quand même remarqué plus de boue anodiac que d'habitude et une saturation bleu/vert plus rapide



View attachment 52219View attachment 52220View attachment 52221View attachment 52222
vous aurez donc compris que je ne suis pas un professionnel mais plutôt un amateur confirmé.

pour moi pour quelques kg par mois.

aujourd'hui j'ai une personne qui est venue me voir et m'a proposé de me laisser 10 kg par semaine pour commencer puis de passer à 20 kg.

Alors je vous pose la question, est-ce possible ? comment verriez-vous la cellule?

avez-vous une idée de

la taille de cellule idéale ?

de sa forme ?

quel type de cellule pouce/moebius?

demain je sélectionnerai des bacs je les prendrai en photo pour éventuellement avoir l'assentiment de certains groupes sur le sujet

Je vous marque en gras les questions que je me pose, s'il vous plait je vous demande des réponses j'ai besoin d'aide

Je précise que je compte commencer par une cellule de 80 litres de forme rectangulaire en plastique pehd ou pp. Je compte doubler ce rectangle plastique de 80 L avec une tôle inox de 2 ou 3 mm.

J'envisage aussi de mettre des cathodes verticales tous les 30 cm pour augmenter la surface cathodique.

Pour l'anode ce sera de la grenaille Ag déjà traitée au nitrique et réduite sur cuivre.


1) J'ai entendu sur certains forum que la tension maximale était de 3,8 volts au dessus du risque de dépôt de cuivre si présent (dans mon cas très souvent alliage Ag/Cu). confirmez-vous ce phénomène?

quelle est la meilleure tension pour travailler j'ai lu dans la discussion que certains passent en 6 volt sans problème



2) s'il faut travailler efficacement avec une basse tension, dans ce cas je suppose que c'est l'intensité I(A) qui va jouer un rôle important dans la formation des cristaux ? quelle intensité recommandez-vous?



3) comment puis-je quantifier le cuivre en solution sans utiliser la spectrométrie ?



4) avez-vous une idée du matériel que je dois utiliser pour cette balance, à savoir faire 20 kg/semaine
pour un premier debut je serais content avec deja 10 kg



5) existe-t-il une loi physique pour calculer la quantité de matière souhaitée en fonction de l'intensité de la tension de litration de la cellule, de la concentration massique, de la surface d'échange anode/cathode ?



6) au final avec quelle pureté peut-on démarrer l'électrolyse pour avoir une cathode cotée de 999 ?


7) Je n'ai jamais calculé la résistance de ma cellule, comment puis-je procéder ?


8) Quelle alimentation préconisez-vous, quel appareil pour délivrer du courant continu ?
quel type de bloc tension max ampérage max


9) Sommes-nous d'accord que plus la cellule est grande, plus il y a de dépôts, ou la taille n'a-t-elle rien à voir avec cela ?


merci de répondre à mes questions en me disant 1) 2) 3) pour ceux qui connaissent bien sur merci

Dette har vi gjort før ikke sant?
Hvorfor fortsetter du å poste på Fransk?

Edit to add:
And then you change it to English without marking it as edited?
Thanks for that, but you should give notice that it is edited.

 

[snoman701]

Since it's been a week with no more input and the response was quite underwhelming, I am going to pick a number of 1000 oz a week to explore. That's about 31 kg a week or 4.4 kg per 24 hour day. A satisfying quantity of Silver to harvest every morning for a small refiner.

If no-one complains about the, quantity of production I'll start tomorrow with the calculations for this size.

I will be looking forward to your response.

Do you keep track of the contamination in your electrolyte simply by keeping track of the feedstock, or through titrations of the electrolyte?

 

[Mudville9]

I am (hopefully) attaching a spreadsheet that you can modify and play around with. It is a simplified set of calculations that can be used to determine outputs versus inputs.
A few things to keep in mind.
1) Any fields in yellow can be changed and will affect all other calculations.
2) This system is based on a 350 L möbius cell, with some extra electrolyte for recirculation. Feel free to change the electrolyte amount to whatever you want.
3) This is a simplified sheet, one of many that I used to calculate resources and costs for various types of feed.
4) Since this is an industrial sized system, it might not have a lot of use for hobbyists, but play with it and modify it to fit your needs.
It is hardly a perfect set of calculations, but it served its purpose

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

I can't open your document too bad

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

finding a tank of more than 300 liters is starting to become difficult and I imagine that it must take up space, in your opinion what should be the size of a cell to already reach 20 kg per week.
I was asking if there was a possibility that nitric acid would eat away at the stainless steel of my cell, I think I'll line the next one with plastic
better to be careful
if someone can explain to me in the end the maximum in voltage and amperage to maintain the purity at 999 and the fastest way to get there, because let's not forget that the time factor is also important
thank you

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

Dette har vi gjort før ikke sant?
Hvorfor fortsetter du å poste på Fransk?

Edit to add:
And then you change it to English without marking it as edited?
Thanks for that, but you should give notice that it is edited.

I write in English translated on google map but gogle translates everything into French on the forums and changes from English to French without being asked about reporting the translation, sorry but I don't understand what it's for j I simply rewrote the text in English.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I write in English translated on google map but gogle translates everything into French on the forums and changes from English to French without being asked about reporting the translation, sorry but I don't understand what it's for j I simply rewrote the text in English.

Yes and that is fine, but you should write a remark that it is edited, so the replies made still will make sense.

 

[Shark]

Any updates?

 

[Lou]

It's only been two weeks, give 4metals some time and he will be back.

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

Hello everyone, your project excites me and in the end I decided to build myself, a silver cell 145 liter a little bigger than the one usually used I have already designed a little plan and I'll show you where I want to go. for my part the quantities you give are too big I can go to 100 kg max per month, I will make a prototype then improve it

picture arecoming

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

Hello I see that time has passed since April and we still have no response from formetal I would like to know if this post is dead or if it will continue to live because I found it very interesting.
It would be good if we continued to make this position live because I think that money is a very interesting area in the field of economic and I really find it more interesting than from an economic point of view for foundry refiner testers.
My personal goal arrived at 100 kilos per month of silver refine each month with the simplest and most economical means which could also run without production of nox or as little as possible because I have not yet created my chemistry hood I would like to leave the small street chip style electrolysis and its predecessors I would really like to arrive on something professional and without forgetting safety

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

I would be curious and I tell myself that it could be good to all be able to compare the equipment we are currently using and the performance that it generates, comparing our installations and our results between us will be good for all, I think. I await your feedback thank you.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello I see that time has passed since April and we still have no response from formetal I would like to know if this post is dead or if it will continue to live because I found it very interesting.
It would be good if we continued to make this position live because I think that money is a very interesting area in the field of swimming girls and I really find it more interesting than from an economic point of view for foundry refiner testers.
My personal goal arrived at 100 kilos per month of silver refine each month with the simplest and most economical means which could also run without production of nox or as little as possible because I have not yet created my chemistry hood I would like to leave the small street chip style electrolysis and its predecessors I would really like to arrive on something professional and without forgetting safety

Please can you edit your thread.
I expect the swimming girls is a translation error?
I for one do not want swimming girls in my electrolyte.

 

[Abdoulapapatte]

I do thx