Gold plated china and glass

[macfixer01]

Mac,

Sorry for the late reply I was busy with work this week. The website is http://www.goldrecovery.us/ and is Lazer Steve's Gold Refinging Page. I'm sure he said 3 gram button or had 3 grams of powder gold. I'll wait till you reply, you know what your looking for. Anyway if you have not already seen the site it is pretty interesting watching the man work on refining. It is great for new comers like me to watch also. Good info and he stresses safety with his process.

Regards,

Aaron

Hi Aaron,
This is one of those D'Oh! moments. The post I was thinking of was on the first page of this same thread.

Per Goldsilverpro: Figure about $.30 per square inch on the decorated glass. Figure about $.15 for gold leaf on art objects. The statue looks plated. If is is, figure on $.45/square inch. If it's not, it's $.15.

Also I'm well familiar with Lazer Steve's website and yes it's excellent. I think you're way off on both the source material and the starting quantity though. If it's the Ap video you're referring to then he started off with 600 Grams (about 21 Ounces) of edge fingers from ISA cards. He ended up with 3 Grams of impure gold that still needed to be dissolved and precipitated, which would result in a little more loss. He's good but there just aint that much gold to begin with in them thar hills!

macfixer01

 

[lazersteve]

Aaron,

Macfixer is right on the money. I've never pulled 3 grams of gold out of a mere 6 ounces of any type of electronic scrap.

Steve

 

[jimmy759]

Continuing with the subject of gold on dishes or ceramic figurines.

What about scraping the gold off and capturing it for refining.

I have full access to a thrift type business where a lot of gold plated or gold covered plates and the what not are chipped and just thrown out.

I have just started saving this stuff. But because of its weight and bulkiness it is becoming a hinderer on my limited space.

 

[Harkey1]

hey guys,
I am glad to know that I am not the only one to go to thrift stores buying odd things to process. Today I am stumped. I purchased a plate (ceramic) that was labled "gold foil plated". I have broken it in to pieces to test which method to extract. The first thing I did was to try to go straight to aucl3.
The gold on the bottom of the plate came off great. The top did not budge. the top is more glossy. Iam thinking it has a light coat of poly (urethane). how to easily remove this. I tried to lightly heat a piece and it bubbled and the gold foil stuck to me. I scraped some of the flakes into the solution and it did just floats and does not disolve. Any help?
Thanks
Glenn :?:

 

[Harold_V]

Just a thought. Perhaps a low temperature glaze, applied after the gold, so it is permanently encased in the glaze?

If that's the case, a trip through a ball mill will free the gold for extraction.

If you were to break the piece and put it in AR, I expect you'd see minor dissolution on the edges. Might be worth a try.

Harold

 

[Harkey1]

It all eventually came off after a long soak in Hcl and bleach. It dropped just fine. I have another question. I did the same thing with another platter that said that it was gold leaf plated. It was on a ceramic (clay) type of material. It came off just fine. I am wonderinng if some of the solutions has soaked into the ceramic (clay)? I am thinking about crushing the material and putting it through another Hcl and bleach bath. What would you suggest? that or just a water rinse of the powder?

 

[Harold_V]

I am wonderinng if some of the solutions has soaked into the ceramic (clay)?

Stannous chloride is your friend.

I am thinking about crushing the material and putting it through another Hcl and bleach bath. What would you suggest? that or just a water rinse of the powder?

I'm assuming you mean the ceramic material. An immediate rinse after dissolution of values should be adequate in removing the values. I expect that you will lose traces, but the only way to effect what would be considered a complete recovery would be to run the material in a ball mill, extract the values, then separate the liquids from the solids via the use of a filter press. including a rinse. Might even have good success with a centrifuge. Beyond that, rinsing several times after extraction might serve the same purpose. The negative aspect is the large volume of solution generated.

If the material in question is hard fired, it is much like glass. I expect that very little would be lost to absorption.

Harold

 

[Nickpearl]

Hi all;
I've experimented also with the ceramic and gold trimmed glasses. I used HCL-peroxide to lift the gold.
It dissolved in the solution, so I dropped with SMB. First time, 1/3 gram - not sure how pure.
Second time, I tried to AR the small amount dropped with SMB from the HCL-Peroxide. Well, it disappeared. I have a clear liquid (no longer yellow) but no precipitate.
Third time same as second time but used a variety of gold trimmed china and glass. Again after precipitating with SMB, I rinsed the powder and then AR'd it. I then filtered (to remove glue, sealant and other gunk) and precipitated. I now have powder on the bottom of the beaker but the gold also plated the sides of the beaker. I seem to do this alot.
Just wanted to share. I'm a bit nervous in using clorox, I manage to get the occasional whiff of the stuff I do use so obviously I'm not being as careful as I need to. In the meantime, I'll stick with what I know and keep trudging along.

 

[Nickpearl]

Continuing my third time above with gold-trimmed glassware: The gold that seemed plated on the walls of the beaker came off with boiling, and now I have powder and flakes. I'll dry and melt to see how much I end up with, but it is pretty.

 

[Nickpearl]

All that flake in the above beaker melted to 2 grains of AU - a whole $7 bucks worth. That from a bag of plates, cups and gold rimmed glasses.
Oh well, sure was fun. I think I'll use the .15 - .20 per square inch measure from now on. I may even go through the bag of dishes to estimate exactly how much went into those precious two grains.

 

[goldsilverpro]

All that flake in the above beaker melted to 2 grains of AU - a whole $7 bucks worth. That from a bag of plates, cups and gold rimmed glasses.
Oh well, sure was fun. I think I'll use the .15 - .20 per square inch measure from now on. I may even go through the bag of dishes to estimate exactly how much went into those precious two grains.

Doesn't surprise me in the least.

The thickness of gold is limited on decorative glass or ceramic pieces. It is a dark black/brown liquid (most is made by Englehard under the name "Hanovia Liquid Gold") usually applied by brushing or silkscreen and then fired to burn off the organic matrix, brighten the gold, and make it adhere. If it is applied too thick, it will not cure properly and this can affect the appearance and the adherence to the substrate. Therefore, the gold thickness (or, thinness) is about the same on most all of this type material

 

[resabed01]

My first attempt at china and glass was about as expected from what I've read here. 175 pieces total of cups, plates, glasses, ashtrays, teapots and so on. I know the number of pieces is irrelevant because it has to do with surface area of the plated portion but counting pieces is my simplified way of keeping track how much I processed. I stripped them with HCL-Cl and in the end I dropped 0.33 grams of powder with SMB. Maybe a bit more is still in the solution because it took a very long time to come down.
I found it labor intensive for two reasons, first because everything needed to be washed before hand to keep dirt and junk out of the solution (I hate washing dishes...lol). The second was it took a long time to dip each piece, agitate, wait, remove and rinse before moving onto the next piece. For my first attempt at this I tried to keep the volume of the stripping solution to a minimum and the vessel I chose somewhat restricted me there. Some larger pieces needed to be dipped two or three times to get all the gold.
The main problem I ran into was during my stripping I found the solution lost it's ability to strip gold after about 1 hour. Then it would be necessary to give it another shot of bleach to get some stripping action happening again. This was fine for the first few times but after 10 to 15 additions of bleach I was starting to wonder about my stripping solution's makeup.
The wife continues to collect all sorts of gold plated glassware. She does so without spending a cent. The stuff is mounting here as we have several large rubbermaid tubs full of the stuff. So it looks like I'll be processing another batch in the spring.
Next time i think I'll find a larger vessel for stripping with so maybe I can dip several smaller pieces together and large objects can dip in one pass. That will make things move along faster.

I was also toying with the idea of taking an old dishwasher and converting it to strip glassware. I've seen them with plastic and stainless steel tubs. Not sure how well they would hold up to the HCL for the short term. Remove whatever base metals not deemed necessary for the stripping, things like the heater would need to go. Then once it's ready, load it up with glassware, Add the HCL to the bottom of the tub and give it a shot of Clorox before shutting the door to run.
With a setup like that one could strip a lot of glassware in a short period of time.

 

[qst42know]

Any metal inside would be a no-go. Which includes exposed metal of the plastic (sometimes nylon) coated wire racks.

How about a poly drum tumbler?

You don't care if these items are broken in the process, right?

 

[Nickpearl]

Thanks Goldsilverpro for your comments, at least I know I'm on the right track. I'll continue since I'm now addicted and plated contacts and gold fill are not as prolific as I like them to be (cost wise).

Resabid01 - Here's what I do with processing and it works fine:
1. Three buckets with lids (the cat litter kind, or any five gallon or so) Four buckets when you count my final clean up before setting in the alley. I drilled holes in the bottom of one and placed it in the second. I fill with my solution, starting with one gal HCL and half gall HP. Then I load it up, cover it, swish it from time to time, and even use a plastic rubber turkey roaster. It sits outside (getting cold) on a 10" square low heat warming thingy (plugs in, not too warm at all).

Time is my friend. Even the larger plates not submerged in the solution will melt their paint off. Takes about a day per batch, maybe two. I'm working on a set I got at auction, 100 pieces, some with thick bands of gold, some with thin. My next experiment will be with entirely gold covered ceramics.

When I'm ready, I either pull the whole top bucket out, let it drain, then dip in third bucket with clear water. Rinse. Then I transfer to another bucket just to clean completely before I pack up and set on my trash can (will be gone before noon). When I'm done, I'll transfer the liquid in the main dipping, plus the first rinse bucket, to a large glass topped jar (huge jelly type jar) and drop with SMB. After all those stages, I'll weigh it, then decide to melt, or to AR, or to split the batch to do both. I assume I should just AR it since pure is what I'm after.

I suspect some gold is not gold at all, or that some have more gold than others. Again, I haven't been too precise in costing all this out, I'm sure I'm paying way to much (40 cents a piece or less, sometimes more for all gold covered ceramics and decorator plates) and the chemicals. Since I'm not working and don't want to, I've got the time. After all, I will get the gold. Hope it goes to like 3-4 thousand an ounce before I kick the bucket.
Hope you find this helpful.
Nick
PS: The reason I like this is the same reason I've tumbled semi-precious stones for 30 years. I set the tumbler with stones and grit and wait 7-10 days. Then I get to see how well I did. Then the next stage. So if I can work, wait, discover, then work, wait, discover, I get satisfaction (most of the time).

 

[Nickpearl]

qst42know
Active Member
Posts: 2301
Joined: July 15th, 2008, 11:31 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA
November 24th, 2011, 1:13 pm
Re: Gold plated china and glass
Any metal inside would be a no-go. Which includes exposed metal of the plastic (sometimes nylon) coated wire racks.

How about a poly drum tumbler?

You don't care if these items are broken in the process, right?

Hi Q; actually you might have something there. I have several large rock tumblers. I could easily break up and fill twelve pounds of material.
Anyone know if HCL-HP creates gas?
That's all I'd be worried about.

 

[qst42know]

Yes chlorine gas in solution, you most likely would need a vent.

 

[solar_plasma]

I got 1g unrefined but brown gold from 4100 cm2 golden surface of gold painted china, that's 635,5 square inch or 1,573564122738002 mg/sq inch.

There may be some 10-100 mg left in the solution since it precipitated badly from the large amount of liquid.

I paid 45€. Expensive gold. :lol:

 

[goldsilverpro]

solar_plasma,

I apologize for being so anal, but your figure of 1,573564122738002 would only be true if the figures of 1g and 4100cm2 were both accurate to 16 significant figures which, of course, they aren't. If the 1g were measured on a balance that only measured to the nearest gram, the answer would be 2 mg/in2, if I remember my math correctly. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. In general, I think the answer can have no more significant figures than any of the numbers used to derive that answer. Calculators give us the idea that their answers are more accurate than they really are.

 

[solar_plasma]

Sorry, I just copied from the on-screen calculator ofcourse you are right!

 

[Pantherlikher]

I have a tough time trying to justify your calculations using so much solution on so little material.
Granted, as a test to see how much should be generally there vs. cost. Unless you grind to powder the starting material. Use various glassware for more acruate results and less solution used, it would be difficult to get accurate results.

For me:
Glassware Free
1gal. HCL $8.
1quart Bleach $3.
3 days washing glassware...Wont go there
I ended up with about a gram of dirty powder and have more then half of both chemicals.

Is it worth the effort? Up to you personally. There are alot of fully covered pieces that would be but few and far between.
For me, it's adding to the pile so spending the time isn't to bad.
I haven't found the mother load of materials, yet, so I'll keep doing it production line style. As the solution slows and takes to long, I move it to dissolve AP powders and then drop the 1st time.

B.S.