Hello, New here, think I made a mistake..

[Pantherlikher]

At the end of the day pu_239 you are experimenting in the lab which is showing great results in a perfect world.
But it wont in practical use.

Most if not all of us use what works and is economical to use.

Hence, AP, HCL+ bleach etc. is in out tool box. As well as plastic buckets etc.

This kind of argument could go forever and we both can be right and wrong.

It's all fun and games and great to learn but when it comes down to a final cost tally, the cheapest and fastest way always wins.
This is where the forum can be of great use. To learn all different methods and find a process that best suits the needs.
This is where your questions ruffle our feathers as you are book smart, but far from practical use. Take us with the same grain of salt as your attitude over what you should be doing, Learning.

B.S.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

A Wikipedia entry keeps coming to mind:

a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Dave

 

[pu_239]

At the end of the day pu_239 you are experimenting in the lab which is showing great results in a perfect world.
But it wont in practical use.

Most if not all of us use what works and is economical to use.

Hence, AP, HCL+ bleach etc. is in out tool box. As well as plastic buckets etc.

This kind of argument could go forever and we both can be right and wrong.

It's all fun and games and great to learn but when it comes down to a final cost tally, the cheapest and fastest way always wins.
This is where the forum can be of great use. To learn all different methods and find a process that best suits the needs.
This is where your questions ruffle our feathers as you are book smart, but far from practical use. Take us with the same grain of salt as your attitude over what you should be doing, Learning.

B.S.

ha, i think i know what the problem is now after reading your comment. Before i get to that... Yes it ultimately boils down to minimal effort and maximum profit, and of course safety throughout. That's what i am striving for ultimately, now since it's my first run, i noticed some mistakes I made which I won't make again. It's a learning process for me at the moment. I do understand the A.P. method from an economical stand point, i get that, there is really nothing wrong with the A.P. method, it works. For me, it just takes to long. I know under the proper conditions, meaning.. knowing the reactions in depth, writing out my procedure, working it with the proper tools I can process at least 10lbs in about 2-3hrs with a high yield. No doubt in my mind about that. I see people waiting about a week.

To everyone else, now to the "problem" of this topic. After reading this person reply it made me think you guys might think I am coming here, trying to say "you're doing it wrong" and "You should do it another way." The A.P method isn't my preferred method. Ideally what I would like to do is just put the entire fingers in some A.R. and work from there. Crash out whatever metals are presents, which i don't know the ones that are present at this moment. But from what I seen, There is copper, of course gold, i think i seen people mention Nickle. But i am not 100% certain,also seen Tin mentioned. It's something I have to look in to later.

I mentioned my preferred way of doing this, I know there are people who have been doing this a long time who do the A.R. method. Do you get on their case too? It's just a preference.

To kill this entire topic/thread, the real question is, "What do you guys want from me, what do you want me to do?" I'll leave it at that.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

To kill this entire topic/thread, the real question is, "What do you guys want from me, what do you want me to do?" I'll leave it at that.

Stop posting misinformation.
Stop arguing with members who are trying to help you.
When someone offers you advice, say thank you, even if you don't like what they've said.
Go finish your finals. Do the best you can.
Then, come back here and study the materials people have recommended. Don't just scan things. Study them.
Stop saying crash things out. That may be the term you are used to using in your chemistry classes, but this is a refining forum. We precipitate our metals, or in refining jargon we drop them.
Accept that you may know more about chemistry than most members here, but most members here know more about refining than you do.
Read Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum. Follow all of the links as far as they lead you, especially the Guided Tour.

Do all of that, then come back here and make your next post.

Dave

 

[Pantherlikher]

Welcome to the forum.

Please refrain from cockiness hence forward.
Look to the posts as part of learning this and instead of arguing about something, look at both sides and give your thoughts.
There is always more then 1 way to do things so look, learn and determine what's best.

Hope you can be humbled enough to be a great asset to the forum.

B.S.
Billy Scott

 

[jason_recliner]

ha, i think i know what the problem is now after reading your comment. Before i get to that... Yes it ultimately boils down to minimal effort and maximum profit, and of course safety throughout. That's what i am striving for ultimately, now since it's my first run, i noticed some mistakes I made which I won't make again. It's a learning process for me at the moment.

I actually empathise with you a little here. I've had ideas to "forget about doing it quick and cheap, I want to do it scientificamally properly." In that essence I declined, hopefully more respectfully, to do what I was being told would be the quickest, easiest way out of my mistake. But I felt that it would be giving up, losing, failing. But not really; losing is actually when you lose excessive time, chemicals, materials, value or health. (FWIW, I've since used that advised method, twice.)

Ideally what I would like to do is just put the entire fingers in some A.R. and work from there. Crash out whatever metals are presents, which i don't know the ones that are present at this moment. But from what I seen, There is copper, of course gold, i think i seen people mention Nickle. But i am not 100% certain,also seen Tin mentioned. It's something I have to look in to later.

Do look into that, for it is a bad idea. Tin in solution is not your friend. Search my posts from mid year. Read ye therein, Butcher and others' sage advice regarding tin.

 

[Shark]

Personally, I see these fine people offering me a chance to learn something now that I didn't have a chance to learn when I was younger. There are those here I may not care for as much as I may others, but they have the ability to teach me something I have wanted to learn for nearly 20 years. This is such a great mix of people, from all walks of life, that help those who want to listen and do some study for themselves. From a very minimal education to some very highly educated people, all here for the benefit of such a diverse group of students. Some slight respect for them would go a long ways in my opinion. You seem, and rightly so, very proud of your teachers in school, and many here are just as proud of their teachers on this forum. I do not have the education of many here, but they are willing to share their education with me, and I will respect that. Irregardless where that education came from, a high end collage or the school of hard knocks, they deserve some respect. I have been very fortunate in life to have met and become friends with many people, from those who could barely read and write to several collage professors, and two that were Deans. A few from large, well respected schools, everyone well respected and successful in their field of choice. I would have never went at any one of them they way you went at the people here, it is disrespectful at the least, disruptive at best. And all just from "skimming" a few notes, that is just another form of disrespect, again just in my opinion.

I hope you find what your looking for and wish you all the success you want. I just hope it is not at the expense of alienating yourself from very many people that can help you along the way.

 

[bswartzwelder]

PU

You join the forum for knowledge and do nothing but disagree with the members. Members who have forgotten much more about recovery and refining than you'll ever know. They spend much of their valuable time trying to help you. Then, you go ahead and do things your way anyhow. Why come here for advice if you're not willing to use is. Then to top it off, you disrespect them by resorting to name calling like Pantherlady and Butch.

Virtually every question you have asked has been asked before and answered before. You are too lazy to use the search function and suffer from the attitude that others on the forum owe you an answer to your questions. Not true. Actually I'm quite surprised they have put up with your attitude for as long as they have.

You're not willing to use the terminology of the forum. Instead you have to crash out something. If that's how your instructor(s) are teaching, then I have lost a lot of respect for them as well. Their terminology is not scientific. The members of the forum understand that and realize that a slight error in terminology can bring disastrous, even fatal results.

Our members come from a wide range of backgrounds. Their lifetime experiences have taught them things that no school, college, or university ever could. They have collectively recovered and refined countless thousands of pounds of gold, silver, platinum and almost any other metal found in the periodic chart. Their knowledge is worth far more than the value of those metals. It is something to learn and to pass on to future generations.

I'm actually surprised you're still around. If your attitude doesn't change soon, one or several things will happen. You can be banned. People will quit responding to your posts in which case you'll actually have to exert a little energy and use the search function. Harold V, one of the most respected people on this forum has said it many times: "I do not suffer fools gladly". Please change your attitude before you encounter his wrath.

 

[Harold_V]

Harold V, one of the most respected people on this forum has said it many times: "I do not suffer fools gladly". Please change your attitude before you encounter his wrath.

He has been forewarned. He is to discontinue posting, and get on with reading. He is told to get a better attitude, and that respect must be earned.
I will not tolerate any more of his rudeness, nor his constant braying about his prowess as a chemist. Those, alone, will be grounds for being banned. All I need, now, is a slight push and it's a done deal. No one is free to disrupt the harmony of this board.

If any reader has an opinion about if he should be banned, feel free to post your thoughts. The board is not about me---it's about US---and our intention is to do that which suits the majority. If you feel you've had enough of this dude, I'll ban him.

Harold

 

[solar_plasma]

He is young, full of dumb ideas and he has been formed by his environment. We all have been. Hard to tell, if he is one of those, who are calming down after some years in real life or if his arrogant, disrespectful and ignorant attitude gets even worse once he has finished his Sc.D. or once he has got a respectable job. I do not believe he will change his mind. I would like to say, get him banned, but who am I to throw the first stone? I think it's fine to have made him discontinuing posting. My opinion is, let him read and we'll see, which way he will choose.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I am not sure if you're sharing your experience, but you start out with a "practical exercise" and say "input should be interesting at least" implying you're looking for my input on maximizing profit. Not sure if you're asking a question or making a comment. It appears you're asking question.

So to answer it, what/how I would do with ram to maximize a profit. I would ideally, crush everything(seen people mention this) in to a fine powder. Then separate all the metals one by one. Get whatever palladium, rubidium, gold, silver(found silver in my ram which was cool), copper, and sell each thing individually. For a least experienced person, I would just do the A.P. method as directed, and sell the boards.

Make a program that back calculates everything. How much gold did you recover from your first run, how many lbs did you use? How much gold did you get for pound of ram? then from there determine a price that you're willing to pay per pound to make a profit. This is what my program i made does, i also input the current market value of gold and the program adjust accordingly of how much I should pay.

I am all ears if "crushing everything" doesn't work out well. It was something i saw someone said and it peaked my interest. If it doesn't work well I wouldn't like to know, and why it doesn't? Is it due to lack of knowledge/experience, or something else?

Sorry folks I can't resist this.

1. You can't tell by the tone of the comment that he is screwing with you because you lack the experience to tell the difference. You are ass-u-me-ing something in the way you read the post. This is what a degree gets you now days.

2. Crushing RAM. All that get's you is a pile of trash. The material needs to be pulverized to be effective in any solution.

3. (seen people mention this) Please do some more searching on the forum for the correct terminology. Here is a good place to do your searches from http://www.goldrecovery.us.

4. rubidium. Now that is a new discovery that I haven't herd of I'll have to see how much of that I can recover and see if I can find a market for it.

5. can you do a ladder diagram to outline how you will separate each of the different metals?

6. How did you determine that you found silver in your RAM? This should be interesting to hear.

7. For a least experienced person, I would just do the A.P. method as directed I feel strongly that this is above your education level to understand this process.

8. and sell the boards Do you have a buyer lined out? If not send me a PM and I'll give you a price on the blank stick's.

9. Make a program that back calculates everything. How much gold did you recover from your first run, how many lbs did you use? How much gold did you get for pound of ram? then from there determine a price that you're willing to pay per pound to make a profit. This is what my program i made does, i also input the current market value of gold and the program adjust accordingly of how much I should pay.

I think you should post a copy of this program so everyone will have access to it so we won't loose money.

10. I am all ears if "crushing everything" doesn't work out well. It was something i saw someone said and it peaked my interest. If it doesn't work well I wouldn't like to know, and why it doesn't? Is it due to lack of knowledge/experience, or something else?

I feel that is the problem you are currently having now that is causing the issues you are having with following direction's.

This is what a college education get's you now day's. Lack of respect for people that are older and more experienced than you are. The lack of patience to learn anything because they feel since they have gotten a higher degree of education they know it all (oh wait that is what I put up with from my 17 year old son that is taking college courses while in high school).

That twinkle in your eye is your life expetency on this forum unless you learn some humility and listen to what the members are trying to tell you.


Sorry Mod's I tried to keep quiet. My rant is over.

2. Pulverize, crush same thing. There are "Degrees" of crushing, highly crushed is pulverized.

4. Spell check...

5. Sure, it's below the horizontal line. Above the line is my organic chemistry homework i am doing. It's above general chemistry(which gold refining is) so i am sure it's above your education, but the seperation looks something like this. I think you mean "flow chart" not ladder diagram(terminology)

6. Look at number 5

7. I highly disagree...

8. Yes I have a buyer, boardsort.com 5 dollars per lbs last time i checked. If you can beat that, then sure i'll sell them to you.

9. I have to be 100% sure it's bug free if I decided to release it.

Above the "BIDDING!" I entered the price of gold, listing price, mass It tells me how much i will spend, how much i will make (based on feed back of other members of how much gold is in 1lbs of ram) etc... It tells me my % profit near the end. YOu can get 50lbs or 1lbs, paying a vastly different prices. How do you know if it's a good deal or not? By the %. You can get a 150% profit if someone is selling 1lbs at a good price, you can get -150% profit if someone is selling a lot of ram and IT LOOKS like a good price, but in reality it's not.

The bidding section tells me the max i should pay for that lot(if i was bidding). It also calculations shipping and handling for shipping the boards to boardsort.com

Respect is a 2 way street, who's on who's case right now? Thank you

P.S. all B.S. aside, since we're both members of the forums, If you can "meet" the price of boardsort.com, I'll sell them to you.

ETA, i am looking at the % profit of the program, it's funky. 1 is really 100%, but that doesn't make sense, I think i made some quick last minute changes which i didn't check it out fully, but everything else should be working fine.

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/pulverise

Verb 1. pulverise - destroy completely; "the wrecking ball demolished the building"; "demolish your enemies"; "pulverize the rebellion before it gets out of hand"
Synonyms: demolish, pulverize
2. pulverise - become powder or dust; "When it was blown up, the building powderized"
Synonyms: powderise, powderize, pulverize
3. pulverise - make into a powder by breaking up or cause to become dust; "pulverize the grains"
Synonyms: pulverize, powder, powderise, powderize

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/crush

Pronunciation: krŭsh
v. t. 1. To press or bruise between two hard bodies; to squeeze, so as to destroy the natural shape or integrity of the parts, or to force together into a mass; as, to crush grapes.
[imp. & p. p. Crushed (krŭsht); p. pr. & vb. n. Crushing.

There is more on crush but I didn't feel it was necessary to copy it here.

Sorry but us poor old Arkansas country hick's have never been known for spelling very good. My wife has been trying for over 20 years to get me to learn but I refuse. Harold has tried as well and even he gave up on me a long time ago.

Ah "flow chart" I couldn't think of the name last night with my limited education.
Stick this in your limited education dictionary so that way you will have it for a reference the next time you try to cut someone down. There is 28.1 Toz of once refined gold button's off of one project. When you get your 1st gram recovered come back and talk to me.



And with my limited education I was only able to get 3 masters license in the following fields that I held for close to 20 years. Plumbing, Electrical & HVAC (that's Heating and Air Conditioning for the educated people). They didn't give one for pools and spas or equipment operator's (backhoe, trackhoe, dozer, bobcat, forklift, trencher, manlift oh heck too many to mention forget it) so I guess I can't claim those. While in these fields I regularly dealt with HCL, Sulphuric and many other chemicals on a regular basis. Oh wait did I tell you I worked at a chemical factory for about 5 years as well dealing with tankers of HCL, HBR (that's hydrobromic acid so you don't have to go look it up), concentrated peroxide, zinc powder, plating sludges. Ah forget it there was too much to list. I also directed the local Plumbing apprenticeship program for the state for 2 years. When and if you get the chance to oversee or manage a project for over $1M hollar at me and I might change my hick attitude towards you and give you some pointers.

Next time you decide to snub someone and talk down to them make sure it is not going to come back and bite you in the butt.

That flow chart looks like something my cat left in his litter box.

Chris is a nice guy I try not to take business from him but actually I pay the same on fingerless RAM as he does and more for CPU's but you would know this if you did some homework.

150% profit. I'm sorry I believe in giving someone a fair value for their product and not stealing it from them. I feel you really need to work on your program more and put some more information in it to cover yourself. Oh but wait, with 150% profit you have plenty of room to work with.

I wouldn't be on your case if you gave the other forum members the respect they deserve. I'm not into writing long winded post's anymore unless someone isn't listening to more experience people.

P.S. to the B.S. I'm already working on about 80 lbs. of RAM.

Ok I'm done with this thread.

Sorry about that Harold. I say let him be for a few day's and see if he changes his attitude but at the slightest hint of futher disrespect I say get rid of him. That's what I would do IMHO.

As Forrest Gump would say. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[g_axelsson]

Maybe a temporary ban until mid January would be the solution. It would let everyone cool down for a month and pu_239 time for reflection, something I think he is lacking, with ADD and all.

I know about some of our senior members that has been banned once or twice but came back and in the end became respected members of the forum. I won't name names but you know who you are... :twisted:

pu_239, if you are aware of your problems with ADD then you should try to change your behavior, not just blaming it for your actions. Use the "Preview" button and read your responses again, doing all calculations over again as you know you makes mistakes. A lot of other people should also use the Preview button so you are not alone. I use it always and I'm catching a lot of mistakes in my posts.

On a forum you are what you write.

Göran

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Maybe a temporary ban until mid January would be the solution. It would let everyone cool down for a month and pu_239 time for reflection, something I think he is lacking, with ADD and all.

I know about some of our senior members that has been banned once or twice but came back and in the end became respected members of the forum. I won't name names but you know who you are... :twisted:

pu_239, if you are aware of your problems with ADD then you should try to change your behavior, not just blaming it for your actions. Use the "Preview" button and read your responses again, doing all calculations over again as you know you makes mistakes. A lot of other people should also use the Preview button so you are not alone. I use it always and I'm catching a lot of mistakes in my posts.

On a forum you are what you write.

Göran

Hey hey hey. It was only once. And I've tried to be nice and quiet.

 

[g_axelsson]

Hey hey hey. It was only once. And I've tried to be nice and quiet.

We have all been banned once and that day I was desperately trying to remember what I had written that would get me banned. :mrgreen:
That was a day of reflection!

... maybe you're saying that you've been banned twice?

Göran

 

[solar_plasma]

5. Sure, it's below the horizontal line. Above the line is my organic chemistry homework, I am doing. It's above general chemistry(which gold refining is), so I am sure it's above your education,

[edited errors]

One advice to Pu_239:
Your education is nothing but a ticket to the real world. Every man or woman, who successfully has run a family for a couple of years or longer, working hard to provide their children an acceptable living, is far more educated, than you are. They may not have that first class ticket, that life has gifted to you, earned or not, but they are already on the train or maybe even at their goal.

Never believe, education is the same as to be educated. The easier your life has been and will be for you, the harder it is, to get educated.

 

[necromancer]

i don't think banning this guy is a good idea. i think having him know that grade 7 drop-out (me) can recover & refine gold & he can't is punishment enough for now.

25.8 grams. recovered in the back woods of a park with items i found at a thrift store & a propane BBQ i found in the trash, and most of all
(Solid Teachings From All The Fine People Here At The Gold Refining Forum)

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=26167&mode=view

i don't know how to put that link in-line to show photo ? Oh Well, at least i know a little chemistry 8)

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Hey hey hey. It was only once. And I've tried to be nice and quiet.

We have all been banned once and that day I was desperately trying to remember what I had written that would get me banned. :mrgreen:
That was a day of reflection!

... maybe you're saying that you've been banned twice?

Göran

I don't remember that might have been when i was gone for a while. :lol:

 

[g_axelsson]

Hey hey hey. It was only once. And I've tried to be nice and quiet.

We have all been banned once and that day I was desperately trying to remember what I had written that would get me banned. :mrgreen:
That was a day of reflection!

... maybe you're saying that you've been banned twice?

Göran

I don't remember that might have been when i was gone for a while. :lol:

That was scaring on the day of the BAN but quite funny afterwards. There was a spammer on the board, just an ordinary spammer and Butcher was going to ban him and put an IP-block on his address. But he messed up and wrote it a bit wrong, ending up banning everyone including Noxx and himself. As he was banned he couldn't fix it and we all had to wait until Noxx had time to fix it. :lol:

I think it was one or two years ago, oh, here it is
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=16993

I think it's time to make a donation to the forum again.

Göran

 

[pu_239]

Okay I have read and acknowledged all the posts. Frankly, issues got out of hand, because i felt criticized. It's not more complicated than that. Maybe I took it the wrong way.Respect is a 2 way street. Frankly, I tried to patch things up, but it seems the kicks keep coming from some members. Most of us are guys here. Guys have issues with one another and they make up. I don't hold grudges, for me, most things are water under the bridge.

I already made financial deals with some of the members for my gold recovery, which i am estimating about 2-3g from my first run. I guess what i am trying to say is that some members are helping me and i am helping them as well. I am contributing in my own way. I would like to contribute more when i can, in any way i can. I also want to clarify, my education... I am not "implying" some of the members are uneducated or anything of that sort. I never said anything along those lines. I don't give 2 craps about "education" what i care about is "results." I am reminded of a story a computer science professor told me(yes i am doing a double major). He was talking about how he hired someone who graduated from Berkeley, but couldn't code worth anything. I completely understand/agree that education means nothing, so no i am not "rubbing it" in anyone face or anything. I don't care if you can spell or not, I suck at spelling and grammar. I noticed people who are in the science field usually are bad at spelling and grammar. I simply stated I was majoring in chemistry kind of like an introduction, nothing more.

So hopefully all this is just water under the bridge, no hard feelings.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Welcome to the forum, Plutonium!