Hello - seeking advice!

[anachronism]

Boards of this calibre average 37% Copper. So on 900 pounds that's 333 pounds at whatever the price per pound is in the US. This is why board brokers and fulfilment companies pay what often appear to be high "gold" prices on boards.

 

[strangehour]

Firstly refiners don't necessarily work on doubling their money. That's not a worthwhile assumption to make when valuing this stash. Let's suggest that it's worth 25% more than he is offering you, would that be reasonable given his risk, time, labour and expenses to process?

Secondly what actual data do you have that shows they are worth so much? You've answered that - it's none. So you could potentially be over valuing these boards anyway.

Thirdly- what's a good deal? Making a boat load of easy fast profit and moving onto the next one or getting hung up on someone else making a margin on stuff you've sold (that's already making you a great wedge?)

If the judgement call is based around the perception that someone else will profit well, then that's not a sound call. My call would be to take a good offer that makes you a few thousand dollars, close the deal off and move to the next. Whilst wishing your buyer well, because if you get another batch then you've already got a decent market.

A lot of assumptions on your part. My estimation of value is based off of 2 months of sales and tracking other sales on eBay. Yes I could possibly be over estimating the value of the lot - that is obviously true but idk who would make a 10k bet on only a 12,500 return- risking 10 to make 2500? that’s bad business - if you operate that way your days are numbered in the game -

Any sensible person aims to double their money at minimum - the stack you put up should always be smaller than or equal to what you could potentially get back or you’re risking more than you would get - makes no sense.

Data / the data is everywhere. It’s basically common knowledge at this point that boards of a certain era / especially boards sought out by a civilian engineer working with the military through the 60s 70s and 80s no less- will mostly likely have high yield - I have weighed those boards - with no heat sinks - no transformers - very little wire / and just used my eyes to see that of the 800lbs(!) there is a reasonable chance they contain a significant amount PM much greater than the amount I’m being offered.

Quick money is always the easy answer - of course that’s true - just sometimes I wonder if quick and easy isn’t a fruitful as working a little more and maybe making a little more.
- I’m not going to be moving on to the next one - this kind of thing does not happen often - I just acquired this whole lot for free / I have the opportunity to work it and possibly make double what I’m being offered / it’s worth taking a second and thinking about / that’s why I came here / to listen to others opinions. So thank you for yours. Tho admittedly disagree with a good deal of it it’s appreciated none the less

 

[strangehour]

Do you know he is not a collector as well?

What you could do is trying to put the lot for sale without too much effort and with good images.
Collectors tend to see the value much faster and are willing to take a couple of hours calculating what each item would cost them buying seperately.
Put it up for bidding if that's possible. You can always decline all bids and still sell it as you please.

I made an agreement with him to pause sales until this Sunday when we meet up - otherwise you have a solid idea.

 

[mr.data]

risking 10 to make 2500? that’s bad business - if you operate that way your days are numbered in the game -

Thats actually not bad depending on how you look at it. When the risk is low, let's take dropshipping for example then this would be a great return.

But I get your point of view in some way. I used to collect these a lot when the market just started and such a deals don't come one after another so a little more profits would be appriciated.

On the other hand I think what Jon is trying to say is that it's not all about making the most profits possible and when you sell it to someone that can make a profit as well, you might end up with a good connection and that is worth a lot more then a 1 times profit.
With good relation you can easily "risk" 10K to make 2K because the risk is far lower then you might expect.

 

[nickvc]

May I say that taking any data for value of materials from eBay will give you bad data as the price in lots of material on there is above the precious metal value and certainly won’t cover the costs to recover and refine it so many members won’t buy on there for that reason.
I’m not an expert on the value of e scrap but there’s quite a few on here who have commented but if you think the deal you are been offered is too low then reject it.
I must admit I’d be happy to turn 10000 into 12500 with no hard physical work involved any day but I’m not sure I’d want to spend 12500 to make maybe 15000 with lots of hard work, time and costs involved.
If you feel the material is worth much more than the offer all the knowledge to recover and refine it yourself is all here on the forum for free .

 

[strangehour]

May I say that taking any data for value of materials from eBay will give you bad data as the price in lots of material on there is above the precious metal value and certainly won’t cover the costs to recover and refine it so many members won’t buy on there for that reason.
I’m not an expert on the value of e scrap but there’s quite a few on here who have commented but if you think the deal you are been offered is too low then reject it.
I must admit I’d be happy to turn 10000 into 12500 with no hard physical work involved any day but I’m not sure I’d want to spend 12500 to make maybe 15000 with lots of hard work, time and costs involved.
If you feel the material is worth much more than the offer all the knowledge to recover and refine it yourself is all here on the forum for free .

Yes. I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to squeeze every last drop out of the deal or anything. And of course a deal that is good for both people in the preferable path forward. What I have come here to try and figure out is - am I insane for thinking that there’s anywhere close to 1lb of gold in this lot. Does anyone know the ratio of yield for other PMs to au for this caliber of board? I’ve already learned a few things / I didn’t know that silver solder was often used on military spec boards - I’m still learning which components carry which pms - that’s all I’m trying to do / is get a better grasp of how much is actually there so I know how to handle the deal. This guy is chomping at the bit to get his hands on this (I’ve shown him more extensive photos than I’ve posted here so I’ll maybe do better about that if I want a more accurate opinion) and it’s just hard for me to gauge it - 800lbs of boards (possibly more since I haven’t gutted the intact pieces yet) as well as a number of components like filters, cable ends (old school amp connectors with thick pins) boxes of mechanical relays etc

Just hoping to find a little Clarity in that regard. Surely we’ve all been here? I have something and I don’t know what it is …

 

[strangehour]

May I say that taking any data for value of materials from eBay will give you bad data as the price in lots of material on there is above the precious metal value and certainly won’t cover the costs to recover and refine it so many members won’t buy on there for that reason.
I’m not an expert on the value of e scrap but there’s quite a few on here who have commented but if you think the deal you are been offered is too low then reject it.
I must admit I’d be happy to turn 10000 into 12500 with no hard physical work involved any day but I’m not sure I’d want to spend 12500 to make maybe 15000 with lots of hard work, time and costs involved.
If you feel the material is worth much more than the offer all the knowledge to recover and refine it yourself is all here on the forum for free .

Im basing it on personal sales that I’ve already completed -
sorry if I made it sound like I was simply looking things up . eBay is a terrible place to assess value if used in that way.

 

[anarxi]

I think in order to get maximum income, it would be to divide the goods into several lots.
Moreover, completely different processes are required to extract all precious metals....
The best result would, of course, be an auction.
This is how it works in my country.
In any case, it is better to sell ceramic processors separately.
They will be bought at a higher price because gold mining from them is very easy and accessible to amateur refiners, the same goes for iron transistors and microcircuits.

 

[mr.data]

Yes. I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to squeeze every last drop out of the deal or anything. And of course a deal that is good for both people in the preferable path forward. What I have come here to try and figure out is - am I insane for thinking that there’s anywhere close to 1lb of gold in this lot. Does anyone know the ratio of yield for other PMs to au for this caliber of board? I’ve already learned a few things / I didn’t know that silver solder was often used on military spec boards - I’m still learning which components carry which pms - that’s all I’m trying to do / is get a better grasp of how much is actually there so I know how to handle the deal. This guy is chomping at the bit to get his hands on this (I’ve shown him more extensive photos than I’ve posted here so I’ll maybe do better about that if I want a more accurate opinion) and it’s just hard for me to gauge it - 800lbs of boards (possibly more since I haven’t gutted the intact pieces yet) as well as a number of components like filters, cable ends (old school amp connectors with thick pins) boxes of mechanical relays etc

Just hoping to find a little Clarity in that regard. Surely we’ve all been here? I have something and I don’t know what it is …

I think it's really hard to determine the exact (or even an estimate) of what is in there regarding to the metals and PM's but maybe there are more experienced users here that do know it.

I tried figuring it out with a simple thing as RAM memory and even there the numbers are all over the place so I am in the process of figuring it out for myself.
I can imagine that if such a simple thing seems to be so differiantiated that such complex boards is almost impossible to determine whats in there but then again, maybe it's because I haven't been processing them for a long enough time.

 

[anachronism]

A lot of assumptions on your part. My estimation of value is based off of 2 months of sales and tracking other sales on eBay. Yes I could possibly be over estimating the value of the lot - that is obviously true but idk who would make a 10k bet on only a 12,500 return- risking 10 to make 2500? that’s bad business - if you operate that way your days are numbered in the game -

Any sensible person aims to double their money at minimum - the stack you put up should always be smaller than or equal to what you could potentially get back or you’re risking more than you would get - makes no sense.

Data / the data is everywhere. It’s basically common knowledge at this point that boards of a certain era / especially boards sought out by a civilian engineer working with the military through the 60s 70s and 80s no less- will mostly likely have high yield - I have weighed those boards - with no heat sinks - no transformers - very little wire / and just used my eyes to see that of the 800lbs(!) there is a reasonable chance they contain a significant amount PM much greater than the amount I’m being offered.

Quick money is always the easy answer - of course that’s true - just sometimes I wonder if quick and easy isn’t a fruitful as working a little more and maybe making a little more.
- I’m not going to be moving on to the next one - this kind of thing does not happen often - I just acquired this whole lot for free / I have the opportunity to work it and possibly make double what I’m being offered / it’s worth taking a second and thinking about / that’s why I came here / to listen to others opinions. So thank you for yours. Tho admittedly disagree with a good deal of it it’s appreciated none the less

Fair play for the reply. A few points if I may.

If you're in possession of the real data then there's very little risk on your 10,000. After all at that point your only real risk is how much you make as opposed to whether you make or lose. As Mr Data, Nick and others have pointed out if you're basing your data on that which is available on forums or Youtube then you have a potential issue. Put simply the only people who have the full data set are those who have commercially refined this kind of product whilst getting returns on all the relevant metals. That kind of information is in reality pretty hard to come by and costs an awful lot of money to get.

Consequently very few people who have got that data are willing to share to one and all as it then effectively becomes hard won Intellectual Property.

Whilst it's possible to get the right info online, the freely "shared" internet information is often garbage and/or deliberately misleading. I agree with the people suggesting that if you want to maximise your money (which you are doing, and more power to you for doing so) then the gear should be sold piece meal in smaller lots. People pay far more than things are worth on eBay.

 

[kurtak]

A lot of assumptions on your part.

Actually Jon is not assuming anything but in fact is speaking from many year of experience in this business

To put that in perspective - Jon is not just some hobby guy that handles a few pounds to a few hundred pounds of boards but in fact he handles boards by the simi truck load (a simi load = 40 tons) & I am not talking about just run of the mill modern consumer boards but he in fact gets in VERY HIGH grade boards from OLD military, telecom, medical, aerospace

A few years ago (the year before Covid) I along with five other of this forums members from around the world (some of our very best) got together at Jon's over in England for a week

While I was there I took a FEW (VERY FEW) pictures of "some" of the kind of material Jon takes in so I am posting "a few" of those pics to put it in perspective for you

As well - I spent 10 year making a living dealing in circuit boards & though I did not handle near the volume of boards Jon does I was handling anywhere from 2 - 5 tons of boards per month - so I to have seen my fair share of the HIGH grade & VERY HIGH grade stuff like you have &/or like that in the pics I am providing here

And for what it is worth - what you have is considered HIGH grade (not just high grade) - the pics I am providing here are considered VERY HIGH grade

There is no question about it - you have score a VERY NICE stash of some VERY NICE stuff - BUT ----------

My estimation of value is based off of 2 months of sales and tracking other sales on eBay.

Basing you "estimation" off of E-bay sales of circuit boards is a VERY bad way for determining precious metal content of CBs

There are a LOT of people out there that have "gold fever" (thanks to youtube) that think circuit boards are just absolutely LOADED with precious metal so they will buy these "small" lots of circuit boards of E-bay for WAY MORE then the value of the PMs in them - thinking they are going to get rich processing the small batch of boards - which they just paid more for then the value of PMs they will get out of them --- again thanks to the fact that they watched some youtube videos that gave them gold fever causing them to buy CBs on E-bay for more then the value of the PMs in them

Just hoping to find a little Clarity in that regard

So - being at least somewhat new to this you have come here asking for some clarity of what you have - & that is a good thing - & though MANY of our members are small "hobby" refiners - "some" of us (like Jon & myself - & a "few" others) have spent "years" doing this as a business & making a living doing it

In other words - you came asking for advice - & some of us are in fact trying to give you that advice - & we are providing you with that advice - based on our years of experience - doing this for a living

am I insane for thinking that there’s anywhere close to 1lb of gold in this lot.

So yes - based on my ten years of doing this for a living (I am now retired from it) as I posted in my first post in this thread - at best - you will be lucky - to get half of that (in other words - likely less then half a pound) & that is IF (the VERY BIG IF) you get FULL recovery of ALL the values in your CBs

& trust me - there is no way you can do that your self as you are currently not properly set up to squeeze ALL of the values out of what you have --- it will cost you MORE then the values that are in the boards to do so

To do this (800 pounds) yourself) you will NEED to -------------

1) set up a "real" lab with fume hood & fume scrubber to deal with the TOXIC fumes

2) source all the different chemical you will be needing for all the "different" processes used in recovery

3) source the lab ware & equipment needed for those "different" process

4) Learn all chemistry for the for the different process to recover the different metals (this will take a HUGE amount of time in research)

5) set up a system for dealing with all the TOXIC waste created in the recovery of the PMs in order to make it safe for disposal

& that is just on the side of the things that can be recovered chemically

Then there is the stuff that can't just be chemically processed - MUCH of it NEEDs to go through a shredding, incineration, milling, smelting process (like shown in the video I provided a link to)

My point being - you have no choice but to pass this off to someone that is actually in the business off doing this

& again - yes - your "estimate" that you have a pound of gold is WAY off - half that - IF you are lucky

 

[kurtak]

Opps - I hit the post button instead of the "insert quote" button - so in conclusion ------

I just turned down 7k this morning.

my buyer and I have renegotiated a higher price

From what I can see - considering you got this stuff basically for just hauling it away - the above offer is a very generous offer & a VERY NICE profit with quick least hassle turn around

If it where me - in your shoes (not set up to actually process) I would jump on that offer --- I don't think you are getting screwed by that offer

Or as the old saying goes --- a bird in the hand is better then a bird in the bush

In other words - you can end up losing out on a GOOD offer - because you "think" it is worth more then what is being offered - much more then you "think" it is worth

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Opps - forgot to post the pics I mentioned in my first post of today so here they are

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

Opps - forgot to post the pics I mentioned in my first post of today so here they are

Kurt

I still drool when I see these kind of pictures

 

[strangehour]

Actually Jon is not assuming anything but in fact is speaking from many year of experience in this business

To put that in perspective - Jon is not just some hobby guy that handles a few pounds to a few hundred pounds of boards but in fact he handles boards by the simi truck load (a simi load = 40 tons) & I am not talking about just run of the mill modern consumer boards but he in fact gets in VERY HIGH grade boards from OLD military, telecom, medical, aerospace

A few years ago (the year before Covid) I along with five other of this forums members from around the world (some of our very best) got together at Jon's over in England for a week

While I was there I took a FEW (VERY FEW) pictures of "some" of the kind of material Jon takes in so I am posting "a few" of those pics to put it in perspective for you

As well - I spent 10 year making a living dealing in circuit boards & though I did not handle near the volume of boards Jon does I was handling anywhere from 2 - 5 tons of boards per month - so I to have seen my fair share of the HIGH grade & VERY HIGH grade stuff like you have &/or like that in the pics I am providing here

And for what it is worth - what you have is considered HIGH grade (not just high grade) - the pics I am providing here are considered VERY HIGH grade

There is no question about it - you have score a VERY NICE stash of some VERY NICE stuff - BUT ----------


Basing you "estimation" off of E-bay sales of circuit boards is a VERY bad way for determining precious metal content of CBs

There are a LOT of people out there that have "gold fever" (thanks to youtube) that think circuit boards are just absolutely LOADED with precious metal so they will buy these "small" lots of circuit boards of E-bay for WAY MORE then the value of the PMs in them - thinking they are going to get rich processing the small batch of boards - which they just paid more for then the value of PMs they will get out of them --- again thanks to the fact that they watched some youtube videos that gave them gold fever causing them to buy CBs on E-bay for more then the value of the PMs in them


So - being at least somewhat new to this you have come here asking for some clarity of what you have - & that is a good thing - & though MANY of our members are small "hobby" refiners - "some" of us (like Jon & myself - & a "few" others) have spent "years" doing this as a business & making a living doing it

In other words - you came asking for advice - & some of us are in fact trying to give you that advice - & we are providing you with that advice - based on our years of experience - doing this for a living


So yes - based on my ten years of doing this for a living (I am now retired from it) as I posted in my first post in this thread - at best - you will be lucky - to get half of that (in other words - likely less then half a pound) & that is IF (the VERY BIG IF) you get FULL recovery of ALL the values in your CBs

& trust me - there is no way you can do that your self as you are currently not properly set up to squeeze ALL of the values out of what you have --- it will cost you MORE then the values that are in the boards to do so

To do this (800 pounds) yourself) you will NEED to -------------

1) set up a "real" lab with fume hood & fume scrubber to deal with the TOXIC fumes

2) source all the different chemical you will be needing for all the "different" processes used in recovery

3) source the lab ware & equipment needed for those "different" process

4) Learn all chemistry for the for the different process to recover the different metals (this will take a HUGE amount of time in research)

5) set up a system for dealing with all the TOXIC waste created in the recovery of the PMs in order to make it safe for disposal

& that is just on the side of the things that can be recovered chemically

Then there is the stuff that can't just be chemically processed - MUCH of it NEEDs to go through a shredding, incineration, milling, smelting process (like shown in the video I provided a link to)

My point being - you have no choice but to pass this off to someone that is actually in the business off doing this

& again - yes - your "estimate" that you have a pound of gold is WAY off - half that - IF you are lucky

Thanks for your input - I appreciate the time you took to write all that out. Please check my thread in the for sale section for more photos. I can’t possibly post all the photos cause it takes forever to load.
Since you have 10 years under your belt and behind your comments I will consider what you’ve said very seriously.
It’s just nagging at me is all-
You know the experiment everyone hears about in school? About the kids that are left alone in the room with the cookie. Theyre told if they don’t eat the cookie they can have two cookies later. Some of the kids eat the cookies some of the kids wait and get the reward -
They follow the kids as they grow up - the ones that ate the cookie (preferred instant gratification ) tended to end up in dead end jobs with very little to show for themselves - while the ones that waited and got the second cookie as well as the first … etc etc
I just keep wondering if I’m grabbing the instant gratification instead of taking the REAL journey here. If you know what I mean.
Anyways thanks

 

[strangehour]

Fair play for the reply. A few points if I may.

If you're in possession of the real data then there's very little risk on your 10,000. After all at that point your only real risk is how much you make as opposed to whether you make or lose. As Mr Data, Nick and others have pointed out if you're basing your data on that which is available on forums or Youtube then you have a potential issue. Put simply the only people who have the full data set are those who have commercially refined this kind of product whilst getting returns on all the relevant metals. That kind of information is in reality pretty hard to come by and costs an awful lot of money to get.

Consequently very few people who have got that data are willing to share to one and all as it then effectively becomes hard won Intellectual Property.

Whilst it's possible to get the right info online, the freely "shared" internet information is often garbage and/or deliberately misleading. I agree with the people suggesting that if you want to maximise your money (which you are doing, and more power to you for doing so) then the gear should be sold piece meal in smaller lots. People pay far more than things are worth on eBay.

Thanks for the reply - you guys have been really helpful.
I’ve pushed back the meet up to next week. So I can fully wrap my head around exactly what’s going on. I’m hoping in that time I can get a complete number in lbs and “ultimate photo” of the contents of the storage room.

Obviously very difficult for anyone to give me advice on what to do without having the complete picture so leaning towards more conservative approach makes sense.

I must be the millionth person to stumble on to these forums claiming to have hit pay dirt like a looney - I sincerely apologize for that aspect of it all - it’s exciting but I’m not really “excited” in fact I’m mostly tired - I’m a farmer by trade -
Ope sorry am rambling.

Thanks for the words - hopefully I can update soon.

 

[kurtak]

Ope sorry am rambling.

You are not just rambling so no need to apologize

You are asking for help & advice & doing a very good job of asking for that help & advice (IMO)

We have some of the worlds very best in this business here on this forum & though we can't tell you exactly what you should do what we can do is based on our own experience is guide you in a good direction to help you in making better choices in coming to discissions that best fit your situation

At least that is our hope & purpose - to help people like you find the answers to what will best fit your situation

And so we thank you for posting & asking about "your situation"

Have to head out the door for work right now

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thanks for the reply - you guys have been really helpful.
I’ve pushed back the meet up to next week. So I can fully wrap my head around exactly what’s going on. I’m hoping in that time I can get a complete number in lbs and “ultimate photo” of the contents of the storage room.

Obviously very difficult for anyone to give me advice on what to do without having the complete picture so leaning towards more conservative approach makes sense.

I must be the millionth person to stumble on to these forums claiming to have hit pay dirt like a looney - I sincerely apologize for that aspect of it all - it’s exciting but I’m not really “excited” in fact I’m mostly tired - I’m a farmer by trade -
Ope sorry am rambling.

Thanks for the words - hopefully I can update soon.

As Kurt say.
We are here to help but the one that can provide us with the information to help you, is yourself.
And so far you have done well.

And in the end you are the one that need to take the decisions on how to proceed

 

[Shark]

There is always the option to just sit on it and hope the prices go up. In eWaste refining I was just not good at that. I recovered and refined the gold, and sold it. The profit came from the cost of the outlay versus the selling price. One time I broke even and it taught me that some items are worth just moving on down the line and using that money to make better purchases. This weekend I will be moving out the last of my collected boards. While they are nothing special I will be sending them on down the road rather than processing them myself. Most business models today teach that a 10 to 15 percent profit is a good business. If you spend 1000 to make 1250 that is a 25 percent profit and is considered a very successful business model. Of course a one time deal isn't a business but most one time deals aren't worth setting up a full blown business over. So the loss perceived is a non issue. Selling for a price that makes you happy for covering your time and cost is the way I would go, and move on looking for the next "deal of a lifetime". Just another option to consider.

 

[anachronism]

There is always the option to just sit on it and hope the prices go up. In eWaste refining I was just not good at that. I recovered and refined the gold, and sold it. The profit came from the cost of the outlay versus the selling price. One time I broke even and it taught me that some items are worth just moving on down the line and using that money to make better purchases. This weekend I will be moving out the last of my collected boards. While they are nothing special I will be sending them on down the road rather than processing them myself. Most business models today teach that a 10 to 15 percent profit is a good business. If you spend 1000 to make 1250 that is a 25 percent profit and is considered a very successful business model. Of course a one time deal isn't a business but most one time deals aren't worth setting up a full blown business over. So the loss perceived is a non issue. Selling for a price that makes you happy for covering your time and cost is the way I would go, and move on looking for the next "deal of a lifetime". Just another option to consider.

You raise a good point in the possibility of holding stuff Shark. I've got a whole heap of material that I bought when gold was 48% of what it is today.