need to neutralize my mess

[godofwar]

ok i did a Ar solution neutralized the nitric after a disolve..... filtered and performed SMB and didn't drop.... my suspect is contamination through one or more sources..... anyway i want to drop everything get all potential metals involved out and start over.....

cause to neutralize everything by sodium bicarbonate will take FOREVER..... i just want precipatate it all out....

 

[Harold_V]

ok i did a Ar solution neutralized the nitric after a disolve..... filtered and performed SMB and didn't drop.... my suspect is contamination through one or more sources..... anyway i want to drop everything get all potential metals involved out and start over.....

cause to neutralize everything by sodium bicarbonate will take FOREVER..... i just want precipatate it all out....

Have you read Hoke?

Harold

 

[godofwar]

i type in hoke i search for this book that is suppose to free down load ... can't locate it all i keep coming across is chloride testing .... but i have been doing research....

i am not trying to do the copper plate method i just want to drop all of it

 

[lazersteve]

The Guided Tour Link has a working copy of Hoke in it.

Steve

 

[godofwar]

thanks for the link .... but no offense i need help with this i need to get the chemical neutralized as in right now ..... i have no problem reading this book i will read it before i do this process over . but my mixture is not in a logical long term storage... i just need some down and dirty help to remove this hazard as fast as i possibly can .....

 

[Harold_V]

thanks for the link .... but no offense i need help with this i need to get the chemical neutralized as in right now ..... i have no problem reading this book i will read it before i do this process over . but my mixture is not in a logical long term storage... i just need some down and dirty help to remove this hazard as fast as i possibly can .....

Heh! Never enough time to do it right, but all the time in the world to do it over (and over).

Scrap steel.

But, you're making a mistake.

It's all in Hoke.

You should have known what you're doing before you got involved. It never ceases to amaze me how people refuse to read and learn, then want someone to bail them out when things go south. It's getting to be a regular habit on this forum. To be very truthful, it's killing my incentive to try to help. Just like welfare----people grow fat and lazy and refuse to do things for themselves so long as they can rely on others to bail them out. :x

Harold

 

[stihl88]

Well said H, wise words indeed.

 

[godofwar]

i dont refuse to learn i just need to get this neutralized ..... and then i can sit down and read i am not going to go over my personal life and i never said i wasn't going to worry about hoke ....

i looked for the book number of times and couldn't find it.... now i have it things are different but i can't keep this active acid sitting around in a improper storage while i read this book i need to drop it all out .....

so i am asking for help because i am in a bind. i have no problem learning i now have resource that i didn't have.....

 

[lazersteve]

Scrap steel.

Harold

Harold already gave you sound advice.

Steve

 

[godofwar]

THANK YOU situations will be different in future post

 

[goldenchild]

It never ceases to amaze me how people refuse to read and learn, then want someone to bail them out when things go south. It's getting to be a regular habit on this forum. To be very truthful, it's killing my incentive to try to help.

Harold

Yes. It seems like there are at least 3 of these per day anymore. I have been just skipping over these lately.

 

[Harold_V]

It never ceases to amaze me how people refuse to read and learn, then want someone to bail them out when things go south. It's getting to be a regular habit on this forum. To be very truthful, it's killing my incentive to try to help.

Harold

Yes. It seems like there are at least 3 of these per day anymore. I have been just skipping over these lately.

Oz has proposed the idea of having a newbie forum, where the new-guy-in remains until he is ready for the full forum. Up to now I thought that maybe he was nuts.

He's not.

There has to be a way for seasoned people to be isolated from the guy that refuses to do anything to better his knowledge, and asks questions that shouldn't be being asked. When such basic knowledge is not at their disposal, they really shouldn't be screwing around with procedures that can be hazardous. They should prove themselves worthy (for lack of better terminology) of taking the valuable time of those of us that actually already have a life.

Harold

 

[jimdoc]

I was thinking that we could make up a page that all newbies can be told to print out and read.It could have a numbered list of all the common answers that a newbie could just be told to read a numbered response on the page they have printed out.So someone can just type check #6 on the list.Or read the whole list again.#1 could be;download and read Hoke's book with a link to it.#2 could be;questions asked before reading Hoke's book and the forum guide books will be ignored by everyone,and those questions will be obvious to everyone,because they have all been heard many times before you got here.

I agree that newbies should have to do some homework and research when they get here before asking questions.If they had a most common new member's question and answer area that they can be guided to,maybe that would work.

Some new members may have very good questions right from the start,but it seems like there have been a large number of people asking the same old things proving that they haven't even tried to read the basics.
And keep adding more questions and needing help with their problems.
Then we have to guess what they mean,or what they have done to get the problem.

Maybe a newbie's problem section.Of course they will not post there,the moderators will most likely have to move them there at first.

We have to find some way to ease the problem.It may not seem like a big deal to someone who just got here,but years of the same old questions from people not willing to do some reading on their own gets old quick.

Jim

 

[nickvc]

It never ceases to amaze me how people refuse to read and learn, then want someone to bail them out when things go south. It's getting to be a regular habit on this forum. To be very truthful, it's killing my incentive to try to help.

Harold

Yes. It seems like there are at least 3 of these per day anymore. I have been just skipping over these lately.

I really can understand the frustration felt by the elders of our forum.

When I started refining I had zero knowledge other than that which I had learnt from watching the processes been done by the chemist of the business I worked for at the time.
I jumped in blindly with help and advice from a couple of chemists who had some experience of the business. Unlike Harold I had never heard of Hoke which would have made my life and business a lot easier had I read it and I'm sure that over the years I discarded values due to ignorance, especially PGMs. My knowledge of chemistry was and is tenuous never the less I ran a successful business for many years learning the hard way but having no where to go for advice other than the school of experience with many failures and problems.
The forum didn't exist, I didn't have the access to the real experts who freely give advice and help selflessly, I can honestly say I have learnt more on here than I learnt the whole time I refined for a living and feel honoured to have conversed with some of the best refining minds on the planet who also turn out to be real nice guys.
The noobies really don't know how lucky and privileged they are to have access to the forum and it's band of experts, it's free downloads and the search function that guides your searches into the areas that relate to the subject help is required for, it might take you off in tangents at times but that is also part of learning giving insights into areas that perhaps sooner or later your going to need to know about.
It's all here, it's free, there is no better resource for this subject, the experts are just that, living talking encyclopaedias of vast knowledge and with hundreds of years of hands on experience between them.
Please do your part or at least take the advice to read until the subject makes sense or the processes are fully known and the reactions don't surprise you at every turn.

 

[jimdoc]

People act like this is just another forum.
That is so far from the truth,that they can't even comprehend.
It's not like they should ever expect people to share info like this
so freely and openly.Its not a subject that they will find honest
and truthful answers and direction anywhere else on the internet
or buying a guide on Ebay.

But since they found this place, they should have some sort of "ten commandments" to follow.Or we can make that whatever number of commandments is needed.

Jim

 

[patnor1011]

What about newbies section or where they will be posting their question. Like Newbie Help needed and Help (or something different) for the rest. I am sure that plenty of people will check their threads and questions and spare Mods from answering hundreds of times the same questions about AR or yields from whatever...

 

[jimdoc]

Maybe Oz's newbie section would work if they are only able to post there for the first few weeks,and are offered all the forum handbooks and Hoke to read in those weeks.
And others can be banished to the newbie section as punishment when needed.

It would probably help keep the spammer problem down also, as they would be locked into the newbie section long enough to forget to come back when they could post in the regular forum.

Jim

 

[patnor1011]

I can offer my own experience. When I joined forum I was armed with knowledge from shady ebay wonder book and start firing off few questions. I did not liked answers as I was sure that I am right and others dont want me to start refining all that heaps of golds from computers. I was sure that there is 100 $ worth of gold in ceramic processors and gold was 300/oz that time. I was also pretty sure that I have tons of platinum in my pound of hdd platters. I was determined to prove myself correct and start reading forum from post one. After few days I realized what is here and after few months I was in picture completelly. There is no thing like slow learner or fast learner due to mountains of informations and experience covered here in thousands of posts. I was ready to start refining that day when I joined only to discover that all I will acomplish will be just mess and problems of how to proceed from step to step. Refining is not get rich quick scheme. Whoever want to get rich quick in gold should go to sales. Buy & Sell, count the profit/loss. I want to say that studying forum and offered literature I did not lose anything as I was collecting and hoarding material ready to be processed later with easiness and comfort by understanding completelly of what I do in every step.
It all require will and investment of your own time not to demand attention and time of others especially when you have nothing to offer back. Most of newbies problems and mistakes are completelly identical so they may find their answer easily just by reading Help needed section thread by thread, post by post. There are hundreds of posts in this thread with question and simple answer with link: wiev post XYZ If person who found that answer can put in time searching that links on this forum and offer them so can do person who asked.

 

[patnor1011]

I can say that I have mastered AP to perfection and can do that with closed eyes. A while ago I offered help to one newbie as he was posting questions which have been answered lots of times. I started comunicating with him in PM. I got tired after week or two as I got several PM every day with questions like what now, why, what is the yield, yada yada. Despite my recommendation this person did not wanted to learn he was looking for somebody who will walk him through his adventures and did not think a second that I do this as favor it was rather sort of entitlement thing. My advices to read this or look for that were just bypassed with another set of questions. I do not imply that everyone here is like that. If you want to know how to repair engine in car you do not start that with sledgehammer or helper on the phone/email.
We saw many of beginners who came, learn and now know how to do things. All that took time and effort from their side. When they showed that they can invest their time they got all help from very experienced people we have here.
Sorry for rambling from (advanced) beginner.

 

[goldenchild]

Maybe Oz's newbie section would work if they are only able to post there for the first few weeks,and are offered all the forum handbooks and Hoke to read in those weeks.
And others can be banished to the newbie section as punishment when needed.

It would probably help keep the spammer problem down also, as they would be locked into the newbie section long enough to forget to come back when they could post in the regular forum.

Jim

I think something along these lines is the only way it will work. If a "newbie section" is put up they will simply skip over it. I was thinking there could even be something set up where you can't even see the forum topics until you download Hoke from a provided link. Or you have to download Hoke and then can only see the "newbie section" for a week or two. Maybe they can only see the forum topics after taking a 10-20 question quiz of very basic refining knowledge after the week. There are many combinations and possiblities.