need to neutralize my mess

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
fishntrox said:
Barren, I was talking about me. You did not need to change anything. You were only repeating what I said.
I would like to commend you for your logical approach to the forum, and the understanding that it is very important that readers do as you have done---read and seek answers to questions. Until you have a firm understanding of these processes, the questions will never cease. By gaining an understanding of the basics, the balance of the issues you will face will be much easier to solve. I wish more of the readers would take a page from your book and learn as you have done.

Welcome to the forum. Feel free to seek guidance when it is required. It's clear you are not expecting a free ride.

Harold
 
After reading this thread I have a question and possible suggestion.

Is it possible to make a setting on the forum that makes it impossible for someone to make a post until they have read a certain number of posts?

I would like to require that a newbie has read, for example, 100 posts before being allowed to post.

Food for thought...
 
gold4mike,

I fear that this wouldn't work very well. It would be similar to when you install a piece of software on your computer and it asks you if you agree with the terms and conditions. No one ever reads that stuff :lol: They just check the agree box and move on. There is no way of knowing if the person truely read the text. I've seen some more sophisticated pages where you have to at least scroll through to the very bottom before it lets you check the box but thats useless.

I suppose you could put a minimum time that the user has to visit the post but what is a good minimum time? Everyone reads at different speeds. Which posts are more important that others? Is there any mis information in the thread these posts are on? The list goes on.
 
Harold_V said:
godofwar said:
thanks for the link .... but no offense i need help with this i need to get the chemical neutralized as in right now ..... i have no problem reading this book i will read it before i do this process over . but my mixture is not in a logical long term storage... i just need some down and dirty help to remove this hazard as fast as i possibly can .....
Heh! Never enough time to do it right, but all the time in the world to do it over (and over).

Scrap steel.

But, you're making a mistake.

It's all in Hoke.

You should have known what you're doing before you got involved. It never ceases to amaze me how people refuse to read and learn, then want someone to bail them out when things go south. It's getting to be a regular habit on this forum. To be very truthful, it's killing my incentive to try to help. Just like welfare----people grow fat and lazy and refuse to do things for themselves so long as they can rely on others to bail them out. :x

Harold

Not much to do with this post, but well said Harold. Although things like this kill your incentive to help, please know that people that have had your help really do appreciate it and that should be enough to keep you here :p Mind you, once again, what you say is so true. I cant understand it myself, and like you say, people get fat and lazy, and expect help, and then eventualy you just give help and let them be fat and lazy, then they just wana jump off the nearest bridge but they cant as your not helping them, and they to fat and lazy to do it themself :p
 
a flow chart should be made that diagnoses all the common problems. All of the answers could be taken from the help needed section.
 
I have repaired machinery, and troubleshooting equipment for years,
Never have seen a troubleshooting chart or diagram worth the paper it was written on, most of them will lead you off on a goose chase, but once you understand the principles of operation, and understand the mechanics, and know how to troubleshoot, troubleshooting is easy.
 
butcher said:
I have repaired machinery, and troubleshooting equipment for years,
Never have seen a troubleshooting chart or diagram worth the paper it was written on, most of them will lead you off on a goose chase, but once you understand the principles of operation, and understand the mechanics, and know how to troubleshoot, troubleshooting is easy.

Yes, but most people do not want to or are incapable of doing that.
 
Here is NOXX's join date, Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:10 pm. So the forum is going on it's 4th year of operating.

Now a lot of you are making suggestions on how to make thing's different on the forum on how new people should be guided to act, how to direct them to the area they should be in, what they should be made to read, wha they should do to become a member of the forum.

What you are not seeing for the trees is that each question that is asked by a user is a chance for you to learn, how to do thing's or how not to do thing's. Look in the mirror and ask yourself as if it were your first time on the forum and you know where nothing is at would you jump thru the hoop's that many of you are sugesting?

The moderator's have a good handle on the forum and they have done a great job guideing users to the information that each user needs, and policeing the bad apples. Look back at your first questions that you asked on the forum and see where you have come from and the guidence you have recieved.

If you want to make the forum better then take a new person under your wing and guide them with what you have learned, and if your guidence is in the wrong direction it will be cought and corrected by someone more knowlegable. This is how each of you will learn the most you will ever learn here besides following the guidence or the moderators and thier examples.

If they feel something important needs to be changed they can make a sticky out of it where it is in the beginning of a section.

You can not make a cookie cutter aproach for everyone. There are too many variables and unknowns.
 
lasereyes said:
butcher said:
I have repaired machinery, and troubleshooting equipment for years,
Never have seen a troubleshooting chart or diagram worth the paper it was written on, most of them will lead you off on a goose chase, but once you understand the principles of operation, and understand the mechanics, and know how to troubleshoot, troubleshooting is easy.

Yes, but most people do not want to or are incapable of doing that.
If they are incapable of doing that, what makes you think they'd be capable of safely refining? Further, why would we want anyone here that fits that description? Hit the road is my suggestion.

I'm sick to death of lazy, no account people that sit on their duff and demand spoon feeding. If it's not important enough for them to expend any of their energy, why the hell should I expend mine? As much as I hate to say it, what's in it for me? The joy of being bad mouthed by some bastard that isn't welcome here?

Please note that I typically refrain from making reference to others in that fashion. That, however, paints the precise picture I hope to present.

Work hard, showing you're trying, and there's no end to the support you can get from this forum. Sit back casting disparaging remarks and demanding answers will generally get you banned.

Harold
 
Harold_V said:
If they are incapable of doing that, what makes you think they'd be capable of safely refining? Further, why would we want anyone here that fits that description? Hit the road is my suggestion.
There is something to be said as to the science of natural selection. The trick is to catch them before breeding age.
 
I agree with you 100 % Harold. If a person doesn't have the will to help himself, why should anyone else help them, especially when the person has attitude or feels like he deserves your help. "The info is here, read it!" should be the forum motto/creed/Tshirt.
 
butcher said:
I have repaired machinery, and troubleshooting equipment for years,
Never have seen a troubleshooting chart or diagram worth the paper it was written on, most of them will lead you off on a goose chase, but once you understand the principles of operation, and understand the mechanics, and know how to troubleshoot, troubleshooting is easy.

agree the only thing i have ever seen to assist is system self diagnostic problem indicator..... normally flashing LED numerical code..... oh easy....

i wouldn't make a one source page for common problems cause a problem should create serious research....... which can create a eye opening find or experience...

cause problems are what led me here and potential problems led me to a insane amounts of research..... trust me if you had a "EASY FIX" page that is going to create a different type of issue....

this is coming from someone that could benefit from a "EASY FIX" list i rather research no matter how bad it may hurt my eyes
 
we can write a proceedure for refining, giving the chemistry behind it, give very good instruction on the process, explain the reactions you should expect, and still will get the question why can't I get my gold to precipitate from this Aqua regia.

list every mistake someone can make by not following the process, and you will have a troubleshooting chart, do not forget to list every other chemical they may think we are talking about and you may have a clue to why they cannot get the reaction expected, or may add something else thinking they can make the process easier ormaybe just skip certain parts of a process, P.S. they may leave out many important details of what else they have done, or did not do and may not even tell you, so your troubleshooting chart may also have to cover that also.

your best troubleshooting tool is education, understanding a process and the reactions of metals and acids, really it is not rocket science, and Harold and many before us has given many years of expierience to further your education.
HOKE's book will give you a understanding of principles, the forum members have proven the processes work if followed.

I have not had much time to devote to the forum lately . and my hat is off to those who spend so much of there time trying to help others, (many times getting called names for there tireless efforts). but then when you see new members melting dish gleaming with GOLD from there efforts and a thankyou it seems to help.
 
butcher said:
...they may leave out many important details of what else they have done, or did not do and may not even tell you....

Now that I've stopped laughing, I find that I agree with you.

To be fair, though, not everybody withholds what they actually did until your fifth or sixth reply to their problem. :lol:

And most everybody has made a mess in their very first attempts (right Harold?---Yeah, I read an old post where you fessed up to it. :lol: )

But, nonetheless, it's probable that the simpler it is made, the goofier their mistakes will become. Maybe that's just part of it?
 
eeTHr said:
butcher said:
And most everybody has made a mess in their very first attempts (right Harold?---Yeah, I read an old post where you fessed up to it. :lol: )
:oops: :oops:

Guilty as charged!

When I was starting out, I wasn't convinced Hoke was on the right track (of course not! Why should he (first mistake) know more than I did?). I made more than one mistake, including setting my garage on fire. :oops: "Clever" people do things like that.

That's one of the reasons I keep harping on not trying to reinvent the wheel, especially when one's objective is to learn refining. It never ceases to amaze me how some guys go off on an unsound tangent based on what they want to believe instead of on what is known to work. It often leads to more than a little embarrassment!

Harold
 
Harold_V said:
eeTHr said:
butcher said:
And most everybody has made a mess in their very first attempts (right Harold?---Yeah, I read an old post where you fessed up to it. :lol: )
:oops: :oops:

Guilty as charged!

When I was starting out, I wasn't convinced Hoke was on the right track (of course not! Why should he (first mistake) know more than I did?). I made more than one mistake, including setting my garage on fire. :oops: "Clever" people do things like that.

That's one of the reasons I keep harping on not trying to reinvent the wheel, especially when one's objective is to learn refining. It never ceases to amaze me how some guys go off on an unsound tangent based on what they want to believe instead of on what is known to work. It often leads to more than a little embarrassment!

Harold

Did you mean to Hokea HE?

Come on Harold you have got to tell the story about setting the garage on fire, this I want to hear.. PLEASE 8) :lol: :mrgreen: :twisted:
 
Barren Realms 007 said:
Did you mean to Hokea HE?
Correct. I was not aware that Hoke was a woman. I learned that here, on this forum. Take note that there is nothing in her book to imply she is a female. I expect that is to do with her time--- women did not enjoy the success they do today--it wasn't fashionable for them to compete in what was, then, a man's world.

Come on Harold you have got to tell the story about setting the garage on fire, this I want to hear.. PLEASE 8) :lol: :mrgreen: :twisted:
Pretty simple. I had my wisdom teeth pulled and didn't feel all that great. Got home from the dentist's office and set some polishing wastes, including the large plastic bag, on to incinerate. This was early on, when I was using my first hood, a dreadful thing I had made of fiberglass. Went inside to relax, then decided a dish of ice cream was in order. As I was eating the ice cream, I heard a noise from what was then, my lab, an attached two car garage. Ran in to find black smoke down to about four feet off the floor. Couldn't see a thing. Ducked down low and ran to the far side, where the hood was located, to find it on fire, including the under side of the roof. Ran back and told Susan to call 911---then ran back in and emptied my fire extinguisher, which reduced the flame, but didn't put it out. Next I grabbed a garden hose and went back in, extinguishing the flames. Opened the doors to air out the smoke, then went back to the house to find Susan still talking to 911---answering questions, without having dispatched the fire department. I shudder to think what would have happened had I not put out the flames. I told her to tell 911 to disregard the call, that the fire was out. To this day, I have nothing good to say about 911. By the way, the fire department was about two blocks away, as the crow flies. Directly behind my house, although no street connected the two without driving around a little. They could have been to my address in less than a minute.

You may have taken note that I always talk about using a hood that is fire resistant. Now you may understand why. My next hood was made entirely of asbestos, as was my third hood, which proved to be a good design.

When you incinerate a plastic bag (this one was covered with polishing waste---it needed to be processed), they don't burn immediately. What they do is liquefy, then when they're hot enough, they burn almost like gasoline (not quite, you understand). When the pan reached the proper temperature, the flames impinged on the small hood, which was now quite hot anyway, setting it on fire.

I do NOT endorse hoods made of fiber glass, nor wood. Wood that is exposed to nitric acid burns readily. Fiber glass resin burns readily as well.

Harold
 
Harold_V said:
Barren Realms 007 said:
Did you mean to Hokea HE?
Correct. I was not aware that Hoke was a woman. I learned that here, on this forum. Take note that there is nothing in her book to imply she is a female. I expect that is to do with her time--- women did not enjoy the success they do today--it wasn't fashionable for them to compete in what was, then, a man's world.

Come on Harold you have got to tell the story about setting the garage on fire, this I want to hear.. PLEASE 8) :lol: :mrgreen: :twisted:
Pretty simple. I had my wisdom teeth pulled and didn't feel all that great. Got home from the dentist's office and set some polishing wastes, including the large plastic bag, on to incinerate. This was early on, when I was using my first hood, a dreadful thing I had made of fiberglass. Went inside to relax, then decided a dish of ice cream was in order. As I was eating the ice cream, I heard a noise from what was then, my lab, an attached two car garage. Ran in to find black smoke down to about four feet off the floor. Couldn't see a thing. Ducked down low and ran to the far side, where the hood was located, to find it on fire, including the under side of the roof. Ran back and told Susan to call 911---then ran back in and emptied my fire extinguisher, which reduced the flame, but didn't put it out. Next I grabbed a garden hose and went back in, extinguishing the flames. Opened the doors to air out the smoke, then went back to the house to find Susan still talking to 911---answering questions, without having dispatched the fire department. I shudder to think what would have happened had I not put out the flames. I told her to tell 911 to disregard the call, that the fire was out. To this day, I have nothing good to say about 911. By the way, the fire department was about two blocks away, as the crow flies. Directly behind my house, although no street connected the two without driving around a little. They could have been to my address in less than a minute.

You may have taken note that I always talk about using a hood that is fire resistant. Now you may understand why. My next hood was made entirely of asbestos, as was my third hood, which proved to be a good design.

When you incinerate a plastic bag (this one was covered with polishing waste---it needed to be processed), they don't burn immediately. What they do is liquefy, then when they're hot enough, they burn almost like gasoline (not quite, you understand). When the pan reached the proper temperature, the flames impinged on the small hood, which was now quite hot anyway, setting it on fire.

I do NOT endorse hoods made of fiber glass, nor wood. Wood that is exposed to nitric acid burns readily. Fiber glass resin burns readily as well.

Harold

Yea it's not fun when something like that happens.

At the chemical plant I use work at they use a horizontal 1.5 MBTU natural gas heater with a blower in a SS enclosure that connected to a 3' or 4' dia. vertical fiberglass stack that they circulated the fluids (zinc bromide, zinc chloride and others) thru and heated the fluids to evaporate the solutions down. They burnt the stacks out 2-3 times a year and either we repaired them in place or tore them out and replaced them. Definetly not the type of material to use in a situation like that.
 
eeTHr said:
Harold_V said:
I had my wisdom teeth pulled and didn't feel all that great.

And that's when I started laughing. Sorry, but I couldn't help myself. What a perfect lead-in to a fiasco. :lol:
Especially when you have your head firmly installed in a very dark place.

I knew better than to leave incineration unsupervised. It is lessons like this that make you cautious. My final hood design was wonderful, including the mounting area. There was nothing combustible within several inches. That was not true of my second hood, where I discovered badly charred wood under the hood when I moved. That, too, was from incineration.

I have no problem laughing at myself, especially when I make stupid mistakes. You are certainly entitled to a few chuckles.

Harold
 

Latest posts

Back
Top