The SMB will drop most if not all the Gold.
It will however still contain minute amounts of Gold and most of the PGMs.
This will be cemented out with Copper.
This will be processed later.
I have not heard that the SO2 could cause trouble though.
-
Please join our new sister site dedicated to discussion of gold, silver, platinum, copper and palladium bar, coin, jewelry collecting/investing/storing/selling/buying. It would be greatly appreciated if you joined and help add a few new topics for new people to engage in.
Bullion.Forum
Problems in platinum recovery
- Thread starter 100tific
- Start date
Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
It will however still contain minute amounts of Gold and most of the PGMs.
This will be cemented out with Copper.
This will be processed later.
I have not heard that the SO2 could cause trouble though.
Abdoulapapatte
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2020
- Messages
- 103
ho my god, the perfect woman exists
for me she must absolutely be interested in the art of refining, single and max 40 years, if you check all the criteria I marry you tomorrow.well let's try to be serious for 2 seconds (it's going to be hard) i'll try to be precise chief
1) Between smb and ferrous sulphate, I'd say that FeSo4 is more selective and smb tends to precipitate platinoids, ferrous sulphate should do so less.
It would be good if an expert could confirm this, but I don't think I'm wrong. Someone I know explained to me that she could crack any metal using cyanidation, but I don't know the process in detail.
After a quick search for a video that I'm linking to here, you can see the reagents used and also the order used to refine each of the precious metals in this video here
te TheIPMI chanel youtube is good for you , if pgm's is you're passion .
this guy's can help you about pt pd and rh
here
it uses and experiments« colored powder from Hoock » « go and tcheck » he have 2 channel "chemistry" and "chemistry games"
Here is a last nugget , 4 metal should come here and poke around in the video tutorials, high level for silver conversion, fast easy and clear water, not a disgusting black water (like when you use NaOh and sugar methode) here
For the colored powder, my results for pd in therme of purity are 986/1000 for the first tests (crappy results).
I'm really crazy, searching everywhere on the forum, impossible to find a guy who is even 995/1000 in pt, pd, rh, ir .... in short if you find an interesting thread let me know for my part I have exceeded the ton of gold for a long time, and silver I must be 5 tons. I would have continued in my refinery, but there is a limit to human stupidity, I stopped when my boss wanted me to throw 12,000 litres of used acid into a field. I realised I was finished.
no solution againt stupidity
see you and show me you're result when you work , i think we have same passion like every one here
vincent
Last edited by a moderator:
Abdoulapapatte
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2020
- Messages
- 103
hello friends, i think you can learn about this guy's and video , 50 video about platinium group metal , you can see color , sponge , equipment and part of process , high level , from china.
work about catalyser car
very interesting
work about catalyser car
very interesting
They spent a lot of money on some very nice equipment and reactors, most of which I have seen before but one piece impressed me and I did a snip and paste to copy it here. It is in the first video of the series but it shows up elsewhere in the videos as well. What it is, is a mounted horizontal vacuum jug with multiple ports to accept büchner funnels. What I like about it is the convenience of having a permanently connected vacuum source and a drain. I cannot see it clearly but there is probably a rinse water feed to clean it out and another shot from the video's included a large opening port on the end where you could reach in to either rinse better or retrieve solids that somehow ended up in the vessel. The drain likely allows the liquid to transfer on to another process without handling. This one is probably 40-60 liter capacity but with an ability to drain some liquid without removing funnels makes it quite versatile. I would love to know who makes and sells them.
The video is worth looking over slowly and checking out all of the nice equipment. Plenty of work space and likely a single scrap type facility.
The video is worth looking over slowly and checking out all of the nice equipment. Plenty of work space and likely a single scrap type facility.
QVF makes these but you can also get from any well equipped glassblower. These take two of the large pyrex bell jars that get welded end on end. Very nice for saving your back if doing small quantities in a job shop.
Sorry, is this a dating website? I'm 30 and single but we came here to talk about something else more relevant.ho my god, the perfect woman exists
I think it is in line with the thread of this post. I find myself facing a new case. Taking into account all the advice you have given me, taking of course the precaution of washing well between each step, and melting the powder after each recovery. I have presented it schematically as follows.
I would like to ask in the last step, although I know I can wash with HNO3 to remove excess Cu, I would like to know how you can estimate the amount of copper powder you will have to add. I don't know if it depends on the platinum that I have in solution, or on the acid capable of reacting.
I also wanted to ask because, I know that to recover the gold from the aqua regia solution, I have to dilute 3 times the amount of liquid I have. But after this comes the recovery of the Pt from the solution, where it is better to have a concentrated liquid. So how can this be compatible? Evaporating this amount of liquid after recovering the gold and after having added SO2 seems too ugly to me. Any suggestions?
*The image shows the initial alloy, it is 82.06g that contains the quantities in parts per thousand of the precious metals indicated. The base metals that I indicate below are in a very small proportion until completing 1000.
I decided to start with AR because the amount of silver is very small and I won't be hindered by those silver chlorides. I don't act with nitric first because the amount of gold + Pt is greater than 25%.
Attachments
Yes, that was not in line with this forum's objective, true.
We do not recommend melting metal powders that are going to be refined further, before a sale it can make sense as it easier to XRF a bar.
And diluting, icing and filtering the solution is just to get rid of as much AgCl as possible.
Then drop the Gold and evaporate for so processing the Pt.
After dropping the Gold you could go directly to Cementing the Pt without evaporating,
not sure how effective that is.
To know how much Copper to use add it in small quantity (Powder) and test often with Stannous.
When you getting close to barren, siphon off the liquid and set it aside as a stock pot with a solid Copper bar and air bubbling around the bar.
The Pt powder should be pretty pure at this moment.
If it aren't pure enough you could repeat it with a concentrated solution as there should be only Pt and Cu involved at this point.
Anyway I'm confused by your numbers as they do not correlate with the numbers in your first post?
1227g of alloy with proportions:
Cu:684
Au: 189.63
Pt:17.25
Ag:91.58
This gives an amount of 0.02gram of Pt
Now you are talking about
82.06 grams of alloy with 84.41 ppm Pt
Which is 0.007 grams of Pt
We are talking about amounts that are hard to see here.
Thank you Yggdrasil, your answer about the platinum and copper part was very helpful to me. As for the gold, I have always diluted the solution a lot before adding MBS. I never did it with the concentrated solution.
What I will do is eliminate the nitrous compounds with sulfamic acid and heat, and in that concentrated liquor I will add the MBS. I have never done it like this without diluting it, I hope it goes well.
Regarding the numbers, I said they are parts per thousand (1000). Not parts per million (ppm).
That is, in this last case, which I have 84.41 thousandths, it means 84.41 parts of Pt per 1000 of alloy. That is, 82.06g*84.41/1000=6.92g Pt. If I had 0.02g I would not invest any time or reagents in recovering it.
Thanks for your response.
Sorry about that, a case of temporary blindness in my memory
This thread took a humorous turn but maybe @Abdoulapapatte and @100tific become the refining power couple! I certainly can think of worse places to meet a partner Both of you definitely have very good chemistry...knowledge!
Back to business though, as Miss 100tific is here to make money.
For cases such as yours, Miss 100tific, I always proceeded as follows:
1. granulate the material after assay confirming silver <5%w/w
2. Dissolve in aqua regia
3. Remove excess nitrates with sulfamic acid solution until ebullition of N2O stops. Sulfuric acid is produced in the reaction which will precipitate lead.
4. Dilute to approximately 2-3 M in HCl then filter any lead sulfate and silver chloride; rinsing filter cake with 0.1 M HCl until colorless. This filter cake goes to silver smelting where traces of gold and other PGMs are recovered.
5. To the mother liquor, I would remove the gold any which way (ferrous sulfate, as noted above is more selective than SO2 and its associated salts) until negative stannous test
6. Cementation of residual PGM with copper sheet as described above until negative stannous test for Pt/Pd, filtered and then then barren solution then goes for copper recovery with iron sheets. The air stirring recommended is not my preference because it can make allergenic mists and generate some chlorine if the HCl concentration is too high-- so I prefer a slow stir.
7. For the reduced PGM blacks recovered in 6., these I like to dissolve in HCl/H2O2. At this point, decisions must be made to get pure platinum and that depends on how much other anionic impurity is present (Pd/Rh/Ir/Ru). In some instances, a simple precipitation as the ammonium salt is enough to obtain 99.9% w/w Pt. In others, it is best to boil the solution to decompose Pd(IV), add a trace of reducing agent (i.e. sodium nitrite) and end up with Ir(III) remaining in solution and then precipitate the bulk of the Pt with ammonium chloride as the chloroplatinate. Everything at this stage depends on Pt to Pd:Ir:Ru:Rh ratios. For ratios when Pt to other PGMs is say >20:1, hydrolysis is usually indicated but as that gap narrows, some of the older classic methods are more appropriate to flip the ratio.
In general, Pt will easily be contaminated with Pd/Ir (especially if the solution is highly oxidized and/or cold) and less so with Ru/Rh (especially if the solution is filtered from precipitate warm, as these metallates are reasonably well soluble). Again, these coarse separations are made depending entirely on solution characteristics.
Edit: some emoji auto formatting needing fixed.
Both of you definitely have very good chemistry...knowledge!Back to business though, as Miss 100tific is here to make money.
For cases such as yours, Miss 100tific, I always proceeded as follows:
1. granulate the material after assay confirming silver <5%w/w
2. Dissolve in aqua regia
3. Remove excess nitrates with sulfamic acid solution until ebullition of N2O stops. Sulfuric acid is produced in the reaction which will precipitate lead.
4. Dilute to approximately 2-3 M in HCl then filter any lead sulfate and silver chloride; rinsing filter cake with 0.1 M HCl until colorless. This filter cake goes to silver smelting where traces of gold and other PGMs are recovered.
5. To the mother liquor, I would remove the gold any which way (ferrous sulfate, as noted above is more selective than SO2 and its associated salts) until negative stannous test
6. Cementation of residual PGM with copper sheet as described above until negative stannous test for Pt/Pd, filtered and then then barren solution then goes for copper recovery with iron sheets. The air stirring recommended is not my preference because it can make allergenic mists and generate some chlorine if the HCl concentration is too high-- so I prefer a slow stir.
7. For the reduced PGM blacks recovered in 6., these I like to dissolve in HCl/H2O2. At this point, decisions must be made to get pure platinum and that depends on how much other anionic impurity is present (Pd/Rh/Ir/Ru). In some instances, a simple precipitation as the ammonium salt is enough to obtain 99.9% w/w Pt. In others, it is best to boil the solution to decompose Pd(IV), add a trace of reducing agent (i.e. sodium nitrite) and end up with Ir(III) remaining in solution and then precipitate the bulk of the Pt with ammonium chloride as the chloroplatinate. Everything at this stage depends on Pt to Pd:Ir:Ru:Rh ratios. For ratios when Pt to other PGMs is say >20:1, hydrolysis is usually indicated but as that gap narrows, some of the older classic methods are more appropriate to flip the ratio.
In general, Pt will easily be contaminated with Pd/Ir (especially if the solution is highly oxidized and/or cold) and less so with Ru/Rh (especially if the solution is filtered from precipitate warm, as these metallates are reasonably well soluble). Again, these coarse separations are made depending entirely on solution characteristics.
Edit: some emoji auto formatting needing fixed.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2016
- Messages
- 78
Sulfur dioxide reacts with copper quite aggressively in an acidic environment. Just a little bit of time and you will get a much better result with less crap to get rid of later.
I wouldn't call it aggressively but it can be substantially complete reduction to relatively insoluble cuprous chloride, CuCl.
Abdoulapapatte
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2020
- Messages
- 103
Hello, I'm back on the thread, at the moment it's war.
I'm struggling with CVs, potential salaries and vacancies.....
It's also interesting to make a living from your passion. In short, I've stopped minting coins with my former employer. Not much time to devote to the forum at the moment.
In short, my heart sways between some very interesting proposals
-in Dubai for the big Au Ag pgm's.
-in Switzerland for Rolex (advantage, watches bought at factory price 8k$, just cast iron no refining =(
-in France paid like a bum >$3000 =( =( =(. advantages training on all pgm's Pt Pd Rh Ir Ru, in-house training also offers in-depth learning on osmium https://www.osmium-preis.com/fr/
(1552 Euros/gr) so I think my heart is set on them.
If I get the process and the equipment used for 999 releases on platinoids, you'll be informed =)
A few photos of what I was producing each day, not to be the guy but rather to share a little with you =) even if it's not the substance of the discussion
Here's an example of quartation (when you kick ass, Boom 1 million on the table)
When I tell you that platinum rarely follows gold, take a look:
when I started refining on my own, I sometimes had to attack large blocks of silver with many interesting cuts: Pt Pd Ir Rh. I diluted hno3 65% with 20% H2O volume, and I did not heat the solution, which allowed me to remove a few grams of pgm's including platinum on ingots of several kg each, so the proportion 1/10 or 1/20 largely exceeded.
see photos
sometimes even on 15 kg ingots, as here
I also think it's probably due to the fact that perhaps the pgm's had a tendency to cement naturally to the silver (oxidation-reduction chain), whereas the silver was being digested by the nitrate at the same time.
I have unfortunately lost a lot of photos and videos on the subject. (remember to back up your data on disk, smartphones don't like acidic environments).
pour le palladium , nos amis chinois zhang (video postées avant ) m'ont avoué utilisé du permanganate de potassium (KMnO4) avec [C] et T° a respecter scrupuleusement pour précipiter Pd en 999 assez facilement et même avec de parasite en quantité importantes , mais je préfère faire plus de recherche à ce sujet avant d'en parler
for 4 metal :
I haven't used their system but I could eventually send you some photos and video of my pre-configuration installation +- 1,500,000 euros, very well thought out I could have built it for +- 80,000$.
They take a hell of a margin when they do it and send it to you plug and play.
Personally, I can tell you that all the orange valves and the plastic come from Germany and are often pre-assembled in Turkey. The Turks are magicians and don't use miller's or whowill to get 999/1000 in gold.
Just one last word: I hope that a complete noob, a real shit at chemistry, will be able to read me one day, the kind of guy who gets reprimanded on the forum with this kind of comment: ‘no urea in acids, it could explode, you really should see the safety section...... because I must admit that's how it started for me. 90% of the time I do the opposite of logic, I also experiment with processes that in theory shouldn't work.
So to this guy who doesn't know anything I'd like to tell him that anything is possible and that if he's motivated and doesn't listen to his real assasins of discovery .
‘It's only a matter of time before you fly with your own wings, go for it, try it out, beat yourself up, look like a loser, an incompetent, but never give up. And if you feel alone and misunderstood, send a message, it's free and there will always be a kind soul to guide you.
nothing is impossible if you trust in you bro .
see you
I'm struggling with CVs, potential salaries and vacancies.....
It's also interesting to make a living from your passion. In short, I've stopped minting coins with my former employer. Not much time to devote to the forum at the moment.
In short, my heart sways between some very interesting proposals
-in Dubai for the big Au Ag pgm's.
-in Switzerland for Rolex (advantage, watches bought at factory price 8k$, just cast iron no refining =(
-in France paid like a bum >$3000 =( =( =(. advantages training on all pgm's Pt Pd Rh Ir Ru, in-house training also offers in-depth learning on osmium https://www.osmium-preis.com/fr/
(1552 Euros/gr) so I think my heart is set on them.
If I get the process and the equipment used for 999 releases on platinoids, you'll be informed =)
A few photos of what I was producing each day, not to be the guy but rather to share a little with you =) even if it's not the substance of the discussion
Here's an example of quartation (when you kick ass, Boom 1 million on the table)
When I tell you that platinum rarely follows gold, take a look:
when I started refining on my own, I sometimes had to attack large blocks of silver with many interesting cuts: Pt Pd Ir Rh. I diluted hno3 65% with 20% H2O volume, and I did not heat the solution, which allowed me to remove a few grams of pgm's including platinum on ingots of several kg each, so the proportion 1/10 or 1/20 largely exceeded.
see photos
sometimes even on 15 kg ingots, as here
I also think it's probably due to the fact that perhaps the pgm's had a tendency to cement naturally to the silver (oxidation-reduction chain), whereas the silver was being digested by the nitrate at the same time.
I have unfortunately lost a lot of photos and videos on the subject. (remember to back up your data on disk, smartphones don't like acidic environments).
pour le palladium , nos amis chinois zhang (video postées avant ) m'ont avoué utilisé du permanganate de potassium (KMnO4) avec [C] et T° a respecter scrupuleusement pour précipiter Pd en 999 assez facilement et même avec de parasite en quantité importantes , mais je préfère faire plus de recherche à ce sujet avant d'en parler
for 4 metal :
I haven't used their system but I could eventually send you some photos and video of my pre-configuration installation +- 1,500,000 euros, very well thought out I could have built it for +- 80,000$.
They take a hell of a margin when they do it and send it to you plug and play.
Personally, I can tell you that all the orange valves and the plastic come from Germany and are often pre-assembled in Turkey. The Turks are magicians and don't use miller's or whowill to get 999/1000 in gold.
Just one last word: I hope that a complete noob, a real shit at chemistry, will be able to read me one day, the kind of guy who gets reprimanded on the forum with this kind of comment: ‘no urea in acids, it could explode, you really should see the safety section...... because I must admit that's how it started for me. 90% of the time I do the opposite of logic, I also experiment with processes that in theory shouldn't work.
So to this guy who doesn't know anything I'd like to tell him that anything is possible and that if he's motivated and doesn't listen to his real assasins of discovery .
‘It's only a matter of time before you fly with your own wings, go for it, try it out, beat yourself up, look like a loser, an incompetent, but never give up. And if you feel alone and misunderstood, send a message, it's free and there will always be a kind soul to guide you.
nothing is impossible if you trust in you bro .
see you
Abdoulapapatte
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2020
- Messages
- 103
now i'm shure KMNO4 for palladium précipitation. look purpul color
look
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/potassium-permanganate-kmno4-23580896773.html
look
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/potassium-permanganate-kmno4-23580896773.html
That has nothing with values to do.
If you dissolve PotassiumPerManganate in water it has a beautiful strong violet color.
Abdoulapapatte
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2020
- Messages
- 103
Yggdrasil my friend, you'll really have to explain to me how you can see the violet in a dark solution .... I'm talking about the colour of the powder he puts on before it falls into the brown solution.
