Pyrolysis,Sn removal,AP,HCL/Cl

[Barren Realms 007]

I'm gona make new SnCl tomorrow. Their has to be Au in their!

Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.

 

[AztekShine]

Is it still assumption if I make new SnCl? And then test it? :lol:

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Is it still assumption if I make new SnCl? And then test it? :lol:

Nope, it is called intellegence then. Not to be confused with military intellegence which is an unknown field of study 8) .

 

[jimdoc]

Do you have any known gold solution as a standard to test your stannous? You can't say the stannous is bad just because the test isn't positive. You need to test the stannous to trust it for your testing of your solutions.

Jim

 

[AztekShine]

I do not. I kno I need to make some test solution . I will have it after this run is over.

 

[AztekShine]

Is it still assumption if I make new SnCl? And then test it? :lol:

Nope, it is called intellegence then. Not to be confused with military intellegence which is an unknown field of study 8) .

8)

 

[AztekShine]

So correct me if I'm wrong but I may be getting so much copper in my HCL/Cl wash that the gold Is precipateing out.


Or it's possabily not desolveing the gold due to too much copper.

 

[AztekShine]

Ok I had a simcard and a old phone with 2 gold squares about 3mm. Squares chipped off and I riped the sim. Tore it in to pieces and put it in a 1dram bottle. Added 2ml HCL and 1ml Cl.

Tested my stannous 5min later and its -Au but my HCl/Cl jars gives me a verry light green neon for about 20 seconds. Paladium? Or just Cu(II)Cl?

I'm going to let the gold solution soak overnight and test again.

 

[butcher]

Copper dissolved in solution will not reduce gold dissolved in solution. Both metals are already oxidized in solution (both missing electrons), (copper Ions cannot give gold any electrons to reduce the gold).

The copper dissolved in solution can make it harder to precipitate the gold if enough copper is dissolved in the solution.

If gold is dissolved in solution elemental copper metal will replace the gold in solution, here the copper will loose electrons and dissolve into solution, and the gold dissolved in solution gains these electrons from the copper and changes to elemental gold metal as powder, or plating out onto the copper metal left in solution,

And if the solution is thick and loaded with copper or organics, tin, oils, or other trash this elemental gold may form colloids in solution and not precipitate easily, these colloids your stannous chloride will not test for as the gold is already reduced to metals, these colloids will not settle as powders, they keep each other repelled in the solution, and thus can be a major loss of gold, here is where keeping the tin out of solution, using incineration, clean work habits and ridding base metals can save you many head aches and save you from loosing much of your gold.

Some study into redox reactions will clear this question up for you, better than my answer can.

I answered the question you had on testing with stannous that may help on the other thread, if you keep your process and questions in one thread it may be less confusing to you and us also.

 

[AztekShine]

I hear ya. Sorry I thought I might be helpful for a member when searching for that particular answer. I'll keep it all here for now on. I kinda figured some were getting tired of my log also. But thanks alot Butcher!

 

[butcher]

the rest of the story. questions on stannous chloride:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=13616

 

[AztekShine]

Is their a tin reagent?


I soaked in HCL 24hr I kno tin is reactive highly.
I don't see any. In my HCL/ Cl. Wash.

 

[butcher]

If your solution filters easily it is a good indication the tin is low in the solution.
If tin is in your solution you will know it when trying to filter.

Your solution looks good as far as I can tell from the picture, clear, not very much copper at all; you are on the right track.

Try and not get confused by my discussion, of dirty solutions, I was speaking in general terms, not necessary specific to your solution.

(Gold chloride solution could test for a tin in a chloride solution, but in this case it would be a waste of good gold, I just posted this as a thought not to be practiced, unless your goal is to test your stannous chloride solution).

 

[AztekShine]

Butcher,
They pretty yellow bottle is my gold standard solution. Yes I'm getting purple from it with SnCl. That makes me happy :twisted:

What's killing me is those other two jars that look like AP are actually HCL/Cl
I have let them set open over night wih lids off and still no purple with SnCl.
I have a test tube with my green HCL/Cl and copper wire in it to see if I can get the Au to cement if their is any that the SnCl may be missing for some reason. I'm getting nothing. I believe it's my NaCLO ratio is off.

I'm learning that's what's important.

 

[maynman1751]

I think your gold, if there is any, is tied up in undissolved base metal. I would decant the liquid, rinse the solids with water (add this to your decanted liquid), and run the solids back through AP and see if you get a lot of green. I don't think you removed all the base metal the first run. Like Geo said, not enough liquid for the amount of material. Meanwhile you can try to cement your decanted liquid with copper to see if there are any values. There probably isn't enough gold in solution to register on your stannous test. This is just my best guess. Maybe someone else has a better approach.

 

[AztekShine]

Ya that's my thoughts exactly. I was debating on running AP again. I am.

Edit: we'll not exactly the not enough acid part for the base metals is false. The majority of the mass in the jar is plastic.

 

[AztekShine]

Ok just to keep things in order. I ran AP a few more days. Washed rinsed recycled. And back to HCL/Cl.

I filtered old HCL/Cl, went threw filter like water. 8)

 

[AztekShine]

Ok so repeated HCL/Cl and it looks good. Repeating HCl/Cl two more times.

Here's a pic of 2nd run beside 1st.

 

[butcher]

The copper content is still high, it is very hard to tell from just looking, but it does not look to be very high in gold content, also it needs filtering, rinse filters and save, what did your stannous chloride test show of these solutions?

If your solutions filtered easily as you know by now, the tin content in solution is not too high.

If both of these solutions are from HCl/bleach, it appears to me you added the chlorine too early in your process, (HCl and dilute H2O2 would have removed most of the copper from these powders), or (neutralizing rinsing then incinerating and treating the powders nitric acid would have removed copper from the gold).

If I understand this you had powders of copper, gold maybe some other metals, these solutions are from treating these powders with HCl and bleach.

The darker solution if test positive for gold, I would put a clean copper buss bar in it, cement values and start over.

The lighter solution if it tests positive for values, you may be able to precipitate the gold after filtering solution.

I would probably just mix both of these solutions together, give them a good boil with the copper buss bar to cement values and collect powders and start over.

 

[AztekShine]

Ya too much copper no doubt. Neither solution test positive for Au :|

But I put some of the dark solution in a test tube and a black powder cemented to the copper.

Someone stated earlier in this thread as to the fact that these IC chips may not contain Au ... I looked closely without magnification tho when I was crushing the chips and seen no gold wire.

I'm ever so slightly bummed. But I am learning! I'm open to the option of this being a pratice swing.

Edit: when I said that the solution looks good, I ment better.