joem
Well-known member
Some Michael's craft stores have it, look for wireformAcid_Bath76 said:
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Geo
Well-known member
stainless steel is highly reactive to sulphuric acid so a stainless steel basket will not work.copper is not very reactive to sulphuric acid unless the acid is heated to the point the acid will attack the copper and degrade your basket hence the need to disconnect the power occasionally and let the cell cool down.if you'll notice the basket will tend to degrade more at the point where the wire is creased and i believe that if you bend the mesh at a right angle it causes the wire to heat more at that point so i would recommend that you bend the wire in a gentle curve instead of right angle creases and stop the reaction more often to allow the solution to cool as this will extend the life of your basket.bklopsy said:
The keys to a long lived copper mesh is concentrated electrolyte, cell temperature below 60C, and careful drying of the mesh after each rinse. I've tried all sorts of stainless steel and they don't compete with copper. Perhaps you have a different problem with your setup causing the copper to erode.
Steve
Steve
Acid_Bath76
Well-known member
lazersteve said:
I've had similar results. I tried the stainless steel basket, and I'm glad I tried it earlier on in my experiments. It didn't last long at all. As for copper alligator clips, be sure you double check the clips before you buy them. I bought a dozen smaller copper clips, only to find that they were plated in a very thin coat. It didn't take long at all for them to erode and start to contaminate my electrolyte, and this was well below 60C! I finally just saved myself the time and money looking for replacements locally, and picked it on Lazersteve's website.
jimmyreece
Well-known member
You only need to ask your question once. On the other thread where you asked this exact same question, I answered: Ag - yes, Pt - maybe, Rh - no.[/quote]
yes you did answer it and thank you. i thought i had submited my question in the wrong section, thats is why its in there twice. anf thank you again
yes you did answer it and thank you. i thought i had submited my question in the wrong section, thats is why its in there twice. anf thank you again
lazersteve said:Here's my latest version of what to do next:
When your cell is full you should:
The concentrated acid that was poured off is used in your next cell run as is. Hot concentrated acid is very dangerous, so exercise extreme caution when handling it. Never add water to concentrated sulfuric acid/powder mixture, add the acid/powder slowly to the water instead.
- Let all the black powder settle
- Pour off the bulk of the concentrated sulfuric acid. Don't worry about the small amount of residual black powder that is in the acid that is poured off as you can get it on the next batch.
- The remaining acid with the bulk of the black powder in it should be slowly added (let it cool before adding more) to five or six times it's volume of water.
- Stir this very well and allow to settle again.
- Siphon off the colored solution. Repeat this process until the wash is no longer colored.
- Test a few drops of the rinse water with a drop or two of 3% unscented clear household ammonia, if the rinse water turns blue when the ammonium hydroxide is added, copper is still present and more rinsing is required.
- Dissolve the black powder with AR or HCl-Cl and proceed as typical for these processes.
Steve
Is there a first part or what I would need to make or build it?
Jack
jimdoc
Well-known member
Check Lazersteve's website he has a video.
http://www.goldrecovery.us/
and here;
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=52&start=50
at the bottom of the page.
Jim
http://www.goldrecovery.us/
and here;
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=52&start=50
at the bottom of the page.
Jim
vegaswinner
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2011
- Messages
- 93
I've read the thread and still don't understand the purpose of the glycerin in the cell, admitted I could have read it at the beginning and forgot now im at the end :?: Am I understanding correctly a concentrated sulphuric acid does not require the additional glycerin? the drain cleaner I got says 97% whilst the battery acid is 37%.
Just a suggestion for heat control using the mesh, make sure the connections are good. A loose connection to the mesh would also generate excess heat.
Just a suggestion for heat control using the mesh, make sure the connections are good. A loose connection to the mesh would also generate excess heat.
jimdoc
Well-known member
The glycerin is not needed.
Jim
Jim
martyn111
Well-known member
Apparently the glycerine is not needed, Lazersteve has confirmed this in a post somewhere but I am unable to pinpoint its whereabouts at the moment
My cell has been running 4 days now with liquid fire drain cleaner and no glycerin. I have read posts both for it and against it.
A trick I found for heat is sipmle yet very effective. I use an over sized lead cathode and store it in the cold. It only works for the first run of the day but it's something. Also the more acid you have to heat up the longer it can run with out over heating.
I notice when mine runns hot the copper starts to erode.
A trick I found for heat is sipmle yet very effective. I use an over sized lead cathode and store it in the cold. It only works for the first run of the day but it's something. Also the more acid you have to heat up the longer it can run with out over heating.
I notice when mine runns hot the copper starts to erode.
Nopyrite said:
i know im new but i just ran a test with battery acid and found it works great oreilly's sells 6 quarts of it for like 12 bucks so its pretty cheap filled up a coffee pot of it and boiled it down half way. noticed gold flake and a black powder so maybe keep that in mind as a possablity this was my first time every refining gold so im super excited lol. hope its ok i post that about the acid. the only thing i havent figured out yet is the reddish powder stuck to the stainless steel but it flakes off?.
98ram,
If your doing this for the concentrated sulfuric acid gold stripping cell, boiling down 32% H2SO4 battery acid about half way down would not give you the concentration of acid you need to run the cell properly, you would still have about 30% water, which would attack base metals in the cell, the battery acid will work better if boiled down until you see white fumes of SO2 gas evolving, but this can be extremely dangerous.
Boiling concentrated sulfuric acid is terribly dangerous, and if you splashed or spilled this acid on you or a boiling vessel broke which they often do, and this acid ran down into your boot or shoe it could cripple you as the acid ate your flesh to the bone, before doing this be sure you understand the dangers, and take all of the safety precautions, buying the cheap store bought drain cleaners, are a much safer way to get the acid, without the dangers of devastating acid burns when something went wrong, or Murphy’s law decided to poke its ugly head out.
Although recycling the acid you will have to re-concentrate it, if doing this be sure you research the dangers and wear the proper protective gear.
The reddish powder is probably base metal like copper, it may even have some values cemented out with it, so I would check for that or use the copper in some other recovery process.
If your doing this for the concentrated sulfuric acid gold stripping cell, boiling down 32% H2SO4 battery acid about half way down would not give you the concentration of acid you need to run the cell properly, you would still have about 30% water, which would attack base metals in the cell, the battery acid will work better if boiled down until you see white fumes of SO2 gas evolving, but this can be extremely dangerous.
Boiling concentrated sulfuric acid is terribly dangerous, and if you splashed or spilled this acid on you or a boiling vessel broke which they often do, and this acid ran down into your boot or shoe it could cripple you as the acid ate your flesh to the bone, before doing this be sure you understand the dangers, and take all of the safety precautions, buying the cheap store bought drain cleaners, are a much safer way to get the acid, without the dangers of devastating acid burns when something went wrong, or Murphy’s law decided to poke its ugly head out.
Although recycling the acid you will have to re-concentrate it, if doing this be sure you research the dangers and wear the proper protective gear.
The reddish powder is probably base metal like copper, it may even have some values cemented out with it, so I would check for that or use the copper in some other recovery process.
Thank you butcher for the information. Yeah I understand the dangers of acids and I do take extreme caution and I slowly evaporate the water from acid barely bringing it to a boil. I realized today that when I tried running a second deplating in the same acid that it barely did anything so I see your point and im going to look into the drain cleaners because i dont want to boil it every run i have a big box of plated jewlry that would take a long time lol. What would you recomend for drain cleaner?
Look for 98% sulfuric acid drain cleaner, here it sometimes comes in a red bottle, they will normally have a plastic bag over the bottle, liquid fire is one brand I buy, at the hardware store. I think Roto is another brand (I have a bad memory and no jug to look at here).
These safety precautions are always good to state even if you understand them other new members may not understand them.
Take care when diluting the acid after using your cell; always pour the concentrated acid carefully into water. (Never pour the water into the acid),
(One way to remember this is the drain cleaner can be poured into the water in the toilet, but the toilet water is never poured into the bottle of drain cleaner).
If reusing the acid after getting the gold out it can be concentrated by boiling the sulfuric acid has a very high boiling point and will azeotrope around 98% before the acid beins to break down and form a white smoke of sulfur dioxide fumes.
This is very dangerous procedure to concentrate the sulfuric acid, so if doing so you need to be very careful, read up on safety practices, and wear protective gear, like a full face shield lab apron, long arm sulfuric acid resistant gloves thick, fold or roll cuffs of gloves so acid will not run down glove to your arm, rubber boots with the tops tapped up, so your boot will not fill with hot acid, and fume precautions, let solutions cool before trying to transfer any liquids, make sure the containers used can handle heating or what your doing with them, prepare your self with a good understanding of the safety procedures before trying to concentrate hot sulfuric acid, the burns received from an accident with this hot concentrated solution could cripple a man.
These safety precautions are always good to state even if you understand them other new members may not understand them.
Take care when diluting the acid after using your cell; always pour the concentrated acid carefully into water. (Never pour the water into the acid),
(One way to remember this is the drain cleaner can be poured into the water in the toilet, but the toilet water is never poured into the bottle of drain cleaner).
If reusing the acid after getting the gold out it can be concentrated by boiling the sulfuric acid has a very high boiling point and will azeotrope around 98% before the acid beins to break down and form a white smoke of sulfur dioxide fumes.
This is very dangerous procedure to concentrate the sulfuric acid, so if doing so you need to be very careful, read up on safety practices, and wear protective gear, like a full face shield lab apron, long arm sulfuric acid resistant gloves thick, fold or roll cuffs of gloves so acid will not run down glove to your arm, rubber boots with the tops tapped up, so your boot will not fill with hot acid, and fume precautions, let solutions cool before trying to transfer any liquids, make sure the containers used can handle heating or what your doing with them, prepare your self with a good understanding of the safety procedures before trying to concentrate hot sulfuric acid, the burns received from an accident with this hot concentrated solution could cripple a man.
Thank you I will definitly look into that. I'm tired of boiling down the battery acid every time and I'm ALWAYS (REALLY REALLY not a good way to boil for other noobs) worried about the coffee pot breaking when being boiled. So I heat it on low or just under water boiling point just to try and be a little safer but take a long time to evaporate the water. Just alittle info on sulfuric my step dad was using a bucket of it (not labeled) as a step stool and his leg went through the lid and he spent 6 months in the hospital because it dissolved the skin and some muscles he almost lost his foot. He now has permant scares, nerve damage, and some lose of feeling in his leg and foot. So please everyone make sure extreme caution and safety is used with ALL acids and chemicals are used because damage to yourself and others is not worth all the gold in the world.
Look into Laser Steve's web site and his older posts, to get a better understanding of the sulfuric acid stripping cell, the link can be found in his signature line in one of his posts.
I tested the gold cell a few weeks ago.
First setup was a SS pot that served as anode and a copper mesh.
The pot corroded (it was welded from two pieces) and ended up as scrap.
The second run was made by using a pyrex dish, a copper mesh as kathode and a massive lead anode, made from projectiles I collected at the local shooting range.
All worked fine ( I amde a small vid on that)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0MwKGjpeSs&feature=share&list=UUfLyhY6QoK7lThHYKvxt4gA[/youtube]
But I experienced 2 major problems:
I was processing goldplated pins - fine stuff with high yield plating - and as I switched to one type of another, which appearently was made of bronze inside, I ran into trouble.
I suppose the gold was plated back onto them, because they came out black.
Secondly I tried to recover the gold from what was 1 Kg of material. I used the glasswool method and filtered the liquid through the cloaked funnel.
Recovering my gold from this solution was a nightmare. The sludge was trapped inside the glasswool, I had to fiddle a lot and to use several washes etc. to get it out there.
The result after all this hazzle was very disappointing (maybe 0,1g max).
My solution is still black, so I suppose there is still most of the gold in there, a big portion of the pins also remained black, using an ultrasonic I was able to recover some and test it, it is goldpowder cemented back..
In addition I had a large spill (which I call my private Fukushima) when I filled the solution into a plastic container, that was dissolved by it and 2l of concentrated sulphuric acid were released in my bathroom. Great!
Took me 2 days and 5 Kg of quartzsand to clean this mess up.
For me the cell is not a solution for the recovery of the fine gold plated pins. I find it rather suitable for larger objects such as jewlery, where you dont have to mess with so many different underlying metals that may cause cementing and the surface of the material is much lowerd compared to their weight.
Then again the recovery from the solution is an aweful nightmare to me. I had hefty losses, troubles with the strong acid and only a partial release of gold from the solution.
I am just building a large AP tank to process this kind of material with a lareg AP setup. I will incorpoarte a copperrecovery cell and keept the volume of solution smaller and fresher this way.
Goldcell for pins is no good solution to me.
First setup was a SS pot that served as anode and a copper mesh.
The pot corroded (it was welded from two pieces) and ended up as scrap.
The second run was made by using a pyrex dish, a copper mesh as kathode and a massive lead anode, made from projectiles I collected at the local shooting range.
All worked fine ( I amde a small vid on that)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0MwKGjpeSs&feature=share&list=UUfLyhY6QoK7lThHYKvxt4gA[/youtube]
But I experienced 2 major problems:
I was processing goldplated pins - fine stuff with high yield plating - and as I switched to one type of another, which appearently was made of bronze inside, I ran into trouble.
I suppose the gold was plated back onto them, because they came out black.
Secondly I tried to recover the gold from what was 1 Kg of material. I used the glasswool method and filtered the liquid through the cloaked funnel.
Recovering my gold from this solution was a nightmare. The sludge was trapped inside the glasswool, I had to fiddle a lot and to use several washes etc. to get it out there.
The result after all this hazzle was very disappointing (maybe 0,1g max).
My solution is still black, so I suppose there is still most of the gold in there, a big portion of the pins also remained black, using an ultrasonic I was able to recover some and test it, it is goldpowder cemented back..
In addition I had a large spill (which I call my private Fukushima) when I filled the solution into a plastic container, that was dissolved by it and 2l of concentrated sulphuric acid were released in my bathroom. Great!
Took me 2 days and 5 Kg of quartzsand to clean this mess up.
For me the cell is not a solution for the recovery of the fine gold plated pins. I find it rather suitable for larger objects such as jewlery, where you dont have to mess with so many different underlying metals that may cause cementing and the surface of the material is much lowerd compared to their weight.
Then again the recovery from the solution is an aweful nightmare to me. I had hefty losses, troubles with the strong acid and only a partial release of gold from the solution.
I am just building a large AP tank to process this kind of material with a lareg AP setup. I will incorpoarte a copperrecovery cell and keept the volume of solution smaller and fresher this way.
Goldcell for pins is no good solution to me.
Marcel,
Please share with us your progress on implementing the large AP tank and copper recovery cell design.
I'm beginning to think along the same lines you are, especially for low to mid grade pins.
Please share with us your progress on implementing the large AP tank and copper recovery cell design.
I'm beginning to think along the same lines you are, especially for low to mid grade pins.
