Rhodium ore

[cerise]

Have you sent any out yet.I'm working on Fume control.This would be a nice thing to try out the new fume hood .By the way does any one know where i can get a vac pump for pulling air out of the fume box and pushing that air through scrubbers?

 

[Shecker]

Thus far I have been seeing some gold and a goodly amount of platinum. True to form the rhodium is probably going to require a fusion with sodium bisulphate.

Randy in Gunnison

 

[ivanchrist]

I am newbie from Indonesia.

I do small research on black sand containing rhodium.
I'd like to share the technique which i know so far..

1. Crush the ore until 400-800mesh
2. Roasting the ore until 500oc for about 2-3hours
3. let it cool and soak it into HF+Nitric Acid to get rid off any SiO2 and heat it up for 2-3hours
4. Heat it up untill dry. then adding Aqua Regia, heat it up for 2-3hours to dilute Au, Pt, Pd
5. Siphon the liquor and separate the residue from the Aqua Regia leaching. (the residue might contain Rh, Ir, Os)
6. Process the mother liquor with sodium metabisulfite for Au, salmiac for Pt, sodium chlorate for Pd. (remove the nitric first by heating)
7. Process the residue with sulfuric acid. heat it up for 2-3hours.
8. Dilute the sulfuric acid with lots of water before siphoning. (4water : 1 sulfuric acid)
9. After siphoning, process the sulfuric acid with tin or iron. (pH 1)
10. i get black powder.

and that's all i know.. i am still working it/the black powder out to get pure rhodium. Am i making a mistake on above technique? :?:

The black sand is SiO2 sand with lots of Fe and 5% rhodium.(reports from local metallurgy lab)
I tested it using steve method for rhodium and it is positive.

Any advice will be regarded. I need help on making pure rhodium.

 

[Lino1406]

should be 9-10hrs, and
NaCl added.
Alternative: melt with NaHSO4

 

[Shecker]

My approach to black sand is very different. First you need to know if the pm's are physical mixed within the black sands, or structurally intermixed within the black sands. The first is an ionic bonding problem, the second is a chemical dissolution problem. Wet magnetite carries a very powerful surface ionic bond when wet. It is capable of holding fine pm's with incredible tenacity until the bond is broken. Thorough drying breaks the bond, yet most resources advocate processing black sands when wet. Pm's that inter grown with magnetite will require a different approach. Don't use HF. The stuff is a nightmare. Just as a thought try something that I came up within several years ago. Fuse your black sand with an equal amount of copper carbonate (or even sulfate) for about an hour over a camp fire.
This breaks the magnetite down and creates a copper/pm fraction that is a whole lot easier to manage. When cooled the balance of the magnetite can be magnetically separated and should contain little in the way of pm's. I developed this when I had access to a lot of copper carbonates ores and too much time on my hands.

Randy in Gunnison

 

[ivanchrist]

Thanks for lino and shecker.

I cant get any sodium bisulfate in Indonesia. importing chemical stuff is very restricted.
I am still looking for substitution for NaHSO4 or might want to produce it.
I read a post in wikipedia about producing NaHSO4.
NaCL + H2SO4 = NaHSO4 + HCL or
NaOH + H2SO4 = NaHSO4 + H2O... :?:
sounds impossible to produce, am i right?

And i dont know about "... the pm's are physical mixed within the black sands, or structurally intermixed within the black sands..."
sorry,i am really new guy in this field.

"...Wet magnetite carries a very powerful surface ionic bond when wet. It is capable of holding fine pm's with incredible tenacity until the bond is broken. Thorough drying breaks the bond, yet most resources advocate processing black sands when wet. Pm's that inter grown with magnetite will require a different approach..." and what does it mean? :?:

Roasting at 500oC for 12hours will break/open up the sulfide, wont it?
i just read the procedure and follow it....that's all i know..

 

[Shecker]

I will endeavor to answer your questions. I use to roast sulfides over a campfire. They volatilize at fairly low temperature. For drying magnetite I would put it in the sun and stir it every now and then. Once the ionic bond is broken by thorough drying and magnetite can be removed by magnetic separation. Let me illustrate: I have a friend who was considering developing a placer on a river in the western US. He gave me a sample of the black sands and asked that I chemically separate the pm's. I dried the sample and the pm's separated cleanly from the magnetite.

In the case of intergrown pm's within magnetite fine grinding and acid digestion would work nicely. If dealing with just gold try HCl and H2O2.
If dealing with platinum group metals try HCl and Cl (directions are available on the forum). There will always be some dissolution of iron and perhaps some precipitation on the iron oxide (I never found this to be a problem).
Another approach is flotation. I use to have a black sands that was intergrown with gold and pgm's. Fine grinding and flotation using a xanthan collector and Dowfroth 250 produced a clean separation of the pgm's.

Another thought would be a hydroxide fusion. You can make all the potassium hydroxide you will ever need from wood pulp by passing water through the pulp and cooking down the solution. The fusion would be carried out in a metal gold pan over a camp fire until the KOH melts and when cooled the gold would be extracted in water. This should also open the black sands up for acid digestion after it has been thoroughly washed.

Anything else I can help with just let me know.

Randy in Gunnison

 

[ivanchrist]

thank you for the explanation. i really appreciate it.

I need time to apply it. Wish me luck.

regards

 

[ivanchrist]

For shecher,

I have translated your method and ready to process the black sand.
I am interested at appplying Fusion the black sand with equal amount of copper carbonate/sulfate.

I will fuse 2kg black sand with 2 kg CuSO4.
I also want to try the hydroxide fusion. I would like to know how much potassium hydroxide to fuse with black sand? and how long?
Would it be ok if i substitute potassium hydroxide with NaOH?

You explained about "the fusion which would be carried out in metal gold pan over a camp fire until KOH melts and when cooled the gold would be extracted in water." ( it means that after the fusion with KOH, the gold will easily dissolve in water?)

because you mention this statement after above sentence," this should open the black sand up for acid digestion after it has been thoroughly washed."
This one makes me confused. if the gold is easily dissolved in water after KOH fusion, why the gold need to be processed for acid digestion esspecially after being washed. Won't the gold gone with the water?

thanks
regards

 

[Shecker]

KOH works just fine as a substitute for NaOH. It's fusion with the black sands
will open the grains of black sands up. It will dissolve some gold and the reulting gold hydroxide will be a reddish-brown in color. It will not dissolve
any silver or platinum group metals. But after thorough washing (the first washing will bring out the now water soluble gold hydroxide and a little extra may appear in subsequent washes) the black sands will be ready for digestion with AR or HCl - Cl. For rhodium a second fusion with sodium bisulphate may be necessary.

You can also make KOH by running water through wood pulp and cooking the water.

Randy in Gunnison

 

[ivanchrist]

Thank you for your explanation. Today i apply your method.
wish me luck.

regards

 

[shadybear]

KOH works just fine as a substitute for NaOH. It's fusion with the black sands
will open the grains of black sands up. It will dissolve some gold and the reulting gold hydroxide will be a reddish-brown in color. It will not dissolve
any silver or platinum group metals. But after thorough washing (the first washing will bring out the now water soluble gold hydroxide and a little extra may appear in subsequent washes) the black sands will be ready for digestion with AR or HCl - Cl. For rhodium a second fusion with sodium bisulphate may be necessary.

You can also make KOH by running water through wood pulp and cooking the water.

Randy in Gunnison

So how do you get the gold back out of the water or from gold hydroxide to
metallic gold

 

[Richard36]

I agree. I would like to hear a little more about this process as well.
I would also like to see a photo of that Rhodium ore.
Further more, I would like a golf ball sized sample for my ore collection, If you (Shecker) would be so generous.

Sincerely; Rick. a.k.a. "The Rock Man".

 

[acsphilip]

If you believe you have that much Rh, then i would be willing to test your ore for free. Please email me at [email protected] to discuss further if you like , visit our website www.acslabs.com for further information.

 

[Anonymous]

How much does it cost to process one ounce of rhodium, using the system everyone is describing?

 

[CHARLIE GREENLER]

Mr. Frog, I dont supose I could get some leads for pgm testing ,even if it is in your back yard!!!!!!!! I have some tight compact cubic rhodium pyrite from molebdonit hydrothermal mud veigning (super mud).Its realy rich too.It makes good mirror and is expencive.The hard rock is rich too (super altered aventurine quarts).Soaked in AR any rhodium should be left behind as black chunks ,bits, pieces,and residues ect....I also electrolosise to kill the isotopes, but a good assayer or someone to front samples to to get an assay done would realy make $$$$$$$$$$.As I have some tonage myself worth 1/4 of a million per tone!!!!!! Boiling or leting soak in molten potasium salts (sodium bisulfite) cyanide also works, concentrated sulfuric and electricity works to disolve !!!!!!!!

 

[goldsilverpro]

I also electrolosise to kill the isotopes,

That seems like a strange statement. The only way I can think of to "kill" (or, change) an isotope would be through transmutation. Please tell me how you can affect a nuclear change using an electrolysis process that only involves electrons? Cold fusion? This whole thing smacks of alchemy. Do you believe that the rhodium in there an "immature" metal?

Some pure gold or rhodium that you're actually able to put on a scale and weigh would go a long ways in this conversation.

From what you say, you already know how to do this and the numbers you give are huge. So far, how much gold and/or rhodium or their alloys have you sold? If you can concentrate them, surely you could sell them. Or, is the problem that they don't show up in a fire assay? What something is worth is only what you can sell it for. As the old saying goes, money (Au or Rh in this case) talks and BS walks. Show us the metal! Talk is cheap.

 

[Palladium]

Yeah he keeps screaming about that ore.

 

[Brett6050]

I have access to some of the richest rhodium ore on earth. I have 300 pounds of this material at my house right now and can get tons more. This material comes from the South American "platina belt" and is material the Spanish tried to smelt and couldn't do it. Finally they abandoned millions of tons of this material, leaving it for someone with better metallurgical knowledge. In time it was forgotten. How I am getting this material is my secret.

I have decided to offer small amounts of this material t anyone on the forums who wishes to extract rhodium. This material yields a bright green solution with everything I have tried, but straight HCl seems to work the best. This stuff comes in pieces that weigh as much as 20 pounds. I have no means right now to crush this stuff and it has a tendency to flatten before it breaks.

Here is the deal. I have access to far more of this material than I can ever use. After due consideration I have decided to share with others on the forum. But I am not giving it away. What I am asking is 50% of what you receive for processing. You cover the costs of extraction and I cover the costs of shipping. If you think this is far please let me know by emailing me at [email protected]. I will send pictures of this material and initial samples to all of those interested.

But remember this -- rhodium is carcinogenic and requires proper fume control.

I will also be running my own material and producing rhodium metal. It starts out red like copper, but is much heavier, and turns gray on drying.
I extract it with just HCl and use iron as a reducing agent. I currently have about 20 ounces of this -- but I have pounds of the yellow alkaline chloride of rhodium. This is made by adding ammonium hydroxide to the HCl solution until a deep blue solution is reached. This occurs at about a pH of 10 to 12. A small addition of HCl drops the pH to about 8 and the yellow rhodium chloride precipitates out. As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat, although getting the cat to hold still must be a real problem.

Please do not ask for a sample of this unless series about doing something with it. Right now my money is very low and shipping costs money. But I will ship a sample to anyone who is series.

Randy in Gunnison

Testing has shown that this material contains a great deal of gelatin. The Spanish use to smelt with animal parts, particularly the blood of cows. For those of you want a source this is right out of De Re Metallica. This confirms that the point of origin was the Spanish in South America and that this came from the old platina belt.

Randy in Gunnison

[/QUOTE]
Hi Randi I have the same problem it's so hard to extract rhodium from ore can you send me a pic of your ore is it creamy whitish colored rock? With grey to blk banding?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi Randi I have the same problem it's so hard to extract rhodium from ore can you send me a pic of your ore is it creamy whitish colored rock? With grey to blk banding?
[/QUOTE]

Brett!
Have you read and understood the whole thread?
Anyway he have not been on the forum since 2011 so you may wait a long time for answers.