Electrochemistry Shor recovery

[ArsenRefineries]

I see the shor system. It uses a salt electrolyte instead of cyanide or acid. Anyone had any success or know of nay success with this product? Seems to be much less problematic then some of the other methods and no hazmat...

 

[Palladium]

Anyone had any success or know of nay success with this product?

Save your money.

 

[ArsenRefineries]

I know they have a chem scam going caling sodium nitrate subzero and adding a huge mark up. As for the simplicity sytsem though I don't see many results good or bad. Admitted calling somehting, somthing else for a big return is shady business, but a fool and his money are easily parted.... Would I be the fool the to not sell it to a wanting buyer? "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it" Syrus, Publilius. On that note though, the only other reverse electroplating sytsem I see manufactured for purchase is the Gold Bug system. Its 1500$ and uses a cyanide solution. If I paid 2000$ and Had a device that could recover scrap gold simply and safely wouldn't you say It would be worth it? Perhaps even on your first bulk lot of filled scrap bought for dirt cheap? I don't see anything else that can offer anything similar without cyanide. If the results are decent I'd say Its a steal at 600$ even if its made from 20$ in material.. Would love to hear other methods if around...

 

[martyn111]

I don't see anything else that can offer anything similar without cyanide.

Try Hokes book and reading the past posts about refining using acids rather than cyanide. Go to lasersteves website and watch the excellent videos showing how to put the theory into practice and how to do it safely.
When you have done that you will realise why you have been told to save your money, you don't need to spend 600 usd when a couple of decent beakers and the correct chemicals will complete the task for you.

 

[ArsenRefineries]

I did read that book. Not 100% but a good skimming and read through the forums a lot and watched every you tube vid I could find on it. Seen steve's video but not the site, hard to take a guy who calls himself "laser" anything seriously but great vid and sure guy too... The acid method I have had success with and success with trouble shooting and improvising a technique I haven't seen used yet. Just the regia method, I prefer a lye bathe before nitric just to save some on acid costs. Also I don't like urea, poor unmeasurable conflicting results. I hate instructions like add a pinch... Instead of urea I prefer to boil it down few times, add water, filter, then precipitate. Here in Canada though "little brother" has put restrictions on the purchase of acids. You can't even buy sulfuric here as drain opener anymore. To get nitric here I have to register a business or I met an American gent. who will ship me a 200L barrel of it for around 1400$ witch includes freight shipping. and 400$ barrel deposit. Works out anyway to about 7$ a liter like that. Not too bad...
I'm schooled for industrial mechanic too. Sure a simple system with breakers is not too hard to duplicate. A car for example may only be 300$ in materials.. I don't have molds, mills, lathes... So there may be 600$ in value for me even though its only made with cheap plastic as I could not get even plastic from crude oil with my set up, let alone a meaningful or useful shape.
I see now here people are getting decent results from the simplicity shor system. Herd have to process it twice to get four 9's but it works none the less.
Thanks I see you guys are trying to save me some bucks I'd rather spend them though and have clean simple station designed for that purpose then trying to use a lasagna dish or some other back yard set up. I can build some quality with my background and all, but I can pay someone to do it too. Besides that's just business. As a refiner someone might pay me 15% on what might work out to 15$ in actual costs to refine. Depending on the quantity the commissions could be huge... I don't feel I'd be ripping that customer off, I can show him value...
Reverse plating just seemed like so much less hassle than the gallons of acids, was just fishing for some experience sharing with these i guess.

 

[qst42know]

Your shor simplicity system from their own instructions is strictly for 12k gold. Not 10k, not 14k, you must alloy to 12k. It's not suited to run gold filled, plate, or e-scrap. It has been a while since I read the instructions but it is very limited as to what you can use it for. To much silver in your alloy and you are done with no recourse. To avoid the inflexibility alone is worth the effort. Would you have to turn work away because it didn't suit your single tool?

Hold on to your wallet and invest in some reading here on the forum. There are multiple methods for any material you may encounter.

 

[dtectr]

A single post is fine, Arsen - any more & you seem over eager. Enough people here have been screwed over by Shor to be swayed by a plethora of vigorous responses.
I'm beginning to think that Arsen refineries is somehow connected with Shor - (2nd post - almost identical bull) they spin everything back with poor syntax & grammar to "Shor is Good!" (or is it "God"?)
Please, post in a single thread, if you have nothing new to say.

 

[Harold_V]

I see the shor system. It uses a salt electrolyte instead of cyanide or acid. Anyone had any success or know of nay success with this product? Seems to be much less problematic then some of the other methods and no hazmat...

Yes, it's just wonderful. So much so that those that get suckered in to their diatribe end up on this forum looking for ways to salvage their materials because the claims made don't live up to reality. It gets even worse when you try to replace some of their magic gee wiz chemicals that are often sold at outrageous prices.

Everything you need to know to refine precious metals with good success can be found in Hoke's book---and you don't have to buy any trick substances or gadgets to do the job.

Read the forum.

Read Hoke.

Did I mention you should read Hoke?

Harold

 

[Harold_V]

Instead of urea I prefer to boil it down few times,

I prefer you lose the notion that you "boil it down". No one in their right mind boils gold bearing solutions---that's how you lose values. Please refrain from using that kind of wording when you are referencing evaporation.

Thanks I see you guys are trying to save me some bucks I'd rather spend them though and have clean simple station designed for that purpose then trying to use a lasagna dish or some other back yard set up.

Do try to keep that in mind when things go south. Do not return to this forum looking for advice to bail you out of a mess. If you can't see the wisdom in not getting hooked to a system that uses "proprietary" reagents, you should also man up to the mistakes and take your lumps accordingly. If you don't have enough respect for the advice you are given here, why should any of the readers try to help when you ignore good and useful advice?

I can build some quality with my background and all, but I can pay someone to do it too. Besides that's just business. As a refiner someone might pay me 15% on what might work out to 15$ in actual costs to refine. Depending on the quantity the commissions could be huge... I don't feel I'd be ripping that customer off, I can show him value...
Reverse plating just seemed like so much less hassle than the gallons of acids, was just fishing for some experience sharing with these i guess.

Before you start knitting little booties, don't you thing it might be to your advantage to know what you're talking about first? If you think you can buy a trick product and find yourself in business, you are going to be sadly mistaken. You'll come to understand that you can't market your end product, so it will be sold as scrap. Rarely does a home refiner gain the respect of the industry in the way of being an accepted source of pure gold.

Let me give you a little advice---and it comes free of charge. Stop making decisions about everything about which you know nothing, and start reading, so you gain enough knowledge to enable you to make meaningful decisions. Otherwise, you're going to quickly become an inflamed boil on the backside of this forum, which we will lance in order to relieve our pain.

You can get a leg up on this advice by reading Hoke's book---and reviewing the forum.

Harold

 

[ArsenRefineries]

A wise man learns from his mistakes. A wiser man learns from the mistakes of others. Not sure what to address here harold. what part dosent make sense? Don't mistake new for stupid.... I have read his book. Note it was not written by a chemist either. Note too I have helped those who a PhD chemist could not. I don't want at all a bytch off. I can find 100 places for that... Science is built on repeatable results, was just wanting to compare with others... If you have experience with this device only please share. If not you shouldn't even be paying attention to it in the first place. My regia is different then those found here or on any other forum. It is a collection of experience from others + my own expertise. It is as follows. Lye bath, then rinse, then nitric, then rinse, then regia, heat to almost a molasses syrup consistency, add HCl, repeat, add 2X the volume of H2O, any remaining silver will precipitate as a nitrate, filter then precipitate gold with Sodium metabisulfite, filter(decant), then add ammonia to precipitate platinum first, then palladium will fall out. Part of this method is based on Hooke results and the link to read that book was found here too. When warming to get the nitric out too it can be run though a liebag condenser and recover your unused nitric along with your PM's if so inclined...
Most cost effective way I've found. Agreed the "boiling" was poor choice of words. I don't know of any experts who use Urea. The"boiling" though don't heat that much is simply to eliminate nitric acid before precipitation. When/if it starts to boil in fact reduce heat... Excuse me I forget sometimes how technical these words can be.
This method though uses gallons of hazardous materials but is clean, easy to follow and duplicate. Was hoping to pool some of the simplicity sytsem results though as I dont have much to weigh and compare as is. Have seen some though who do get good results from it. Who said things went south besides harold? I'm getting good results... I didnt ask for any of your advice, infact i keep responding to yours with better advice... This is how we grow as a whole... BTW I did fail English Detectr and if you want to criticize my grammar we will be here all day. Though I did get 98% in math and 104% in physics.... gotta love bones q's I did not ask or seek anybodies advice here. Just wanted to compare finished results... Cheers happy refining!

 

[Harold_V]

The use of lye is discussed by Hoke, so that's not something new.. but we tend to ignore its use because it's so damaging and unforgiving of the eyes. While it can be beneficial, there's not much it can do that a good incineration won't accomplish, which is a subject that you have yet to discuss.

Hoke is not a he. She was the daughter of Samual Hoke, a well respected chemist/metallurgist and expert, in his day, on the platinum metals. The Hoke torch was named in his honor.

Don't get the idea that we don't appreciate good input. That's not at all what we're about---we're here to learn and teach, but what we try to teach is what is common practice. We want our readers to achieve a level of success, and to do so safely, without spoiling the environment. I would hope that you understand that the new guy in has more than enough trouble with the harebrained ideas that have been promoted on the internet without you jumping in with your revolutionary methods, some of which are highly questionable. That, by the way, is nothing new to the forum. We've had all kinds of well meaning individuals promote their methods here, often methods that work, but poorly. An example of which might be the person that insisted that gold be recovered from solution by the use of copper. Works great---it's just not selective. Sort of defeats the purpose if your objective is refining.

For now, what would be a good idea is for you to reign in your wild comments and get to know and understand the workings of this forum. We don't claim to know it all, but we do claim to keep people out of trouble by using known and proven methods of refining. To that end, we pretty much demand that the new guy in read Hoke---if for no other reason, so they will begin to understand testing, and to understand the language that is commonly used on this forum. Right now, you are an unknown in this field. If you have something to offer, it will be more welcome when you have established credibility with the readers. You won't accomplish that by being abstinent-----you will only insure that your stay here is brief. I recommend you pull back and withhold comments until you have a firm understanding of what we do, and how it's done.

So then, sit back, relax, read the forum, and read Hoke. I'm not the least bit interested in what you think you know--it's like being in a foreign country in this case. You must learn to speak the language we speak here---and if that's too big of a demand, you'll find you won't be welcome for long. Once we understand you and your objective, some of your comments may be welcome. Right now, by the comments posted in response to your posts, it's obvious they are not. We try to keep this forum free of rancor. You're not helping in that endeavor.

Harold

 

[Harold_V]

A wise man learns from his mistakes. A wiser man learns from the mistakes

No one learns anything by talking.

If you have experience with this device only please share. If not you shouldn't even be paying attention to it in the first place.

Please note that I am one of the moderators on this forum. I expect you to pay attention to what I say, even if you don't agree. If you think you are the sole judge of what I should, or should not read here, or respond to, you're not going to last beyond your next irrational post.

I am now officially putting you on notice. Reign in your mouth and get a new attitude about this forum. You will not come here and be disruptive. You will observe that which you are expected to observe, and that's not open for discussion.

Harold

 

[ArsenRefineries]

did anybody read my question at all?
I don't care if you don't like shor. I don't like shor. I just wanted to compare results with their salt reverse plating method and typical or common place cyanide methods of reverse electroplating. I see another posted about being screwed over by shor... I agree. I know Subzero is only sodium Nitrate. I don't agree with shor's business
model. This wasn't the request or idea of my post.
The simplicity system dosent use toxic chemicals, was wondering what other results were to compare... Thats just healthy science. a collection of facts to see were the evidence points you. The Gold Bud system costs 1500$ and uses cyanide which can kill you if not treated properly. For 600$ a system that uses salt instead seems more attractive. Over priced, poorly made maybe, everything is worth what its purchaser is willing to pay. I don't want a debate over their quality. I see another user had bought one and immediately realized he can build a better unit "industrial" machine cheaper. I don't argue this point or have any relevant data to weight my options with. My hope for this post was to see what results folks where getting from this system. Ms Hooke(not Mr excuse me) dose not go in to much detail at all about this method and none what so ever about another method besides using cyanide solutions.
Yes pick me apart! But offer some reasoning. I'm no shor fan either. In the same respect though I dont see any other models.
I wanted only results so i can compare results with the best method I've found. Sorry Harold I didnt mean you shouldn't read this or offer what you can. I do value and appreciate what you have to offer. This forum alone is the reason I read Hooke's book at all. Though here if you have not used this system you to as I have nothing to weight your opinions with and offer. Pls stop telling me about the same result for 100$ in breakers and parts at the hardware store. I can get the same results from 25 cents worth of acid as 25$ of specialty subzero... What are your results using this system? The only thing I am seeking in this post... Subzreo/Simplicity sytem are 2 very different set-ups. I know shor suxs... sodium nitrate(subzero) is no nitric acid substitute. As far as the simplicity sytem goes though only results I have found and on this forum are good. 3 nines achieved through one step only, much better than the acid method. Even hooke recomends reverse eletro plating as the way of the future. Just wanted to weigh results...

 

[Lou]

A wise man learns from his mistakes. A wiser man learns from the mistakes of others. Not sure what to address here harold. what part dosent make sense? Don't mistake new for stupid.... I have read his book. Note it was not written by a chemist either. Note too I have helped those who a PhD chemist could not. I don't want at all a bytch off. I can find 100 places for that... Science is built on repeatable results, was just wanting to compare with others... If you have experience with this device only please share. If not you shouldn't even be paying attention to it in the first place. My regia is different then those found here or on any other forum. It is a collection of experience from others + my own expertise. It is as follows. Lye bath, then rinse, then nitric, then rinse, then regia, heat to almost a molasses syrup consistency, add HCl, repeat, add 2X the volume of H2O, any remaining silver will precipitate as a nitrate, filter then precipitate gold with Sodium metabisulfite, filter(decant), then add ammonia to precipitate platinum first, then palladium will fall out. Part of this method is based on Hooke results and the link to read that book was found here too. When warming to get the nitric out too it can be run though a liebag condenser and recover your unused nitric along with your PM's if so inclined...
Most cost effective way I've found. Agreed the "boiling" was poor choice of words. I don't know of any experts who use Urea. The"boiling" though don't heat that much is simply to eliminate nitric acid before precipitation. When/if it starts to boil in fact reduce heat... Excuse me I forget sometimes how technical these words can be.
This method though uses gallons of hazardous materials but is clean, easy to follow and duplicate. Was hoping to pool some of the simplicity sytsem results though as I dont have much to weigh and compare as is. Have seen some though who do get good results from it. Who said things went south besides harold? I'm getting good results... I didnt ask for any of your advice, infact i keep responding to yours with better advice... This is how we grow as a whole... BTW I did fail English Detectr and if you want to criticize my grammar we will be here all day. Though I did get 98% in math and 104% in physics.... gotta love bones q's I did not ask or seek anybodies advice here. Just wanted to compare finished results... Cheers happy refining!

I think you need to re-visit Hoke and instead of skimming, you should peruse. While no one knows it all, it's clear from your "method" that you certainly don't know enough to start mixing chemicals and expect not to get hurt, let alone achieve the results you desire. Remember that adage "measure twice, cut once"? I'd suggest following that concept with the refining/reclamation field by reading something until you understand what you need to do from memory, and why you're doing it.

There are ways to get high purity gold in excess of commercially pure from a single precipitation. Much depends on the other metals and contaminants.

 

[dtectr]

I wanted to add a point, with Harold's permission, that he is too modest to keep repeating.
He came from a very humble background, but through the process if refining, was able to retire comfortably ("wealthy" in my book) at 54 years of age, after only 28 years of self employment.

If you're pursuing financial success in a given field, follow winners. The advice he gives for free is (pardon the puns) GOLDEN & can be TAKEN TO THE BANK.

I wish you success.
dtectr

 

[patnor1011]

There is not a magic station working for everything. What other try to explain to you is that there are plethora of method used for various types of refining. Yes, it is gold but it comes in many forms. Some process is good for karat gold yet not suitable for gold filled or plated or electronic scrap or dental appliances...
Your method cant achieve 100% results if applied to different materials.
Also when you say what you can get from a man who called himself Laser will you elaborate on your nick? Arsen? :lol:

 

[shadybear]

maybe you should buy a platiummill too!!!

 

[jimdoc]

I didnt ask for any of your advice, infact i keep responding to yours with better advice... This is how we grow as a whole...

I sure am glad to have an expert here now, that can respond to this forum's advice with better advice. Just kidding, I can't even follow your ramblings Arsen.

Jim

 

[Palladium]

The industrial machine you are talking about is probably the one I am currently redesigning. I currently have over two years in the design and research of the prototype I am building and I haven’t even started building it yet. I have redesigned it so many times I wonder if I will ever get it down to a working model. Sounds simple right? I don’t think you have any idea as to the complexities of this science. And they call it the simplicity system. Rotfl I don’t know what answers you are looking for from the forum. Is the science behind the machine correct? Yep! 100%. Is the design of the machine correct? Not in my opinion but I guess that all depends on what time period you’re referencing your technology to. Will it work? For a minute it will anyway. Does it have flaws? A few. Does it have potential as far as marketability? Yep, if built right and it works it does. As far as rave reviews from anyone on the shor system, I can’t think of maybe one I have seen here. Would I recommend the technology? Yes I would. Would I recommend shor? Hell no!!
It’s my personal goal in life to break up that little monopoly they have going on that machine. Would I spend $500-600 on a machine if it had the potential to make me money? Yep, in a minute! Would I spend it on this machine? Probably not.

 

[ArsenRefineries]

Thanks Palladium. Yeah exactly what I was looking for. I did lol and read through your post though about its "industrial" strength. I was going to recommend acklands grainger too for your power supply but see you found one already. That kind of stuff I know quite well. College and worked as Industrial mechanic. Have designed a few simple machines complete with parts lists for a shop I worked at too. Let me know if your stuck. I like your idea though. Would be nice to get the cadiallac instead of the chrysler especially when dealing with PM's.