cobrawearer
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2010
- Messages
- 8
butcher, I stopped counting grammar, spelling, and punctuation mistakes in your post after I got to 10. Still understood you.
-
Please join our new sister site dedicated to discussion of gold, silver, platinum, copper and palladium bar, coin, jewelry collecting/investing/storing/selling/buying. It would be greatly appreciated if you joined and help add a few new topics for new people to engage in.
Bullion.Forum
Electrochemistry Shor recovery
- Thread starter ArsenRefineries
- Start date
Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
Butcher has a real talent for explaining things in most disciplines to the common man/woman that are otherwise hard for them to grasp. You will also find he is one of the best here as to building things from scavenged parts, in particular electrical components. I have asked his counsel more than once in that regard.
Hat tip to butcher.
Hat tip to butcher.
cobrawearer,
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I thought I was doing "perty good".
I guess spell check does not catch all the mistakes I make.
Kidding aside I do appreciate the forum for helping me with my English class lessons.
I am 54 year old, can read and write now, but I graduated from high school and could not read, I learned later after school.
Did not use the computer like most people did, until I came to this great forum, so I am also computer illiterate.
This forum is teaching me more than recovery and refining metals.
Hope you can be patient with my grammar and point out how I can do better.
I am not stupid just still learning (will till I die).
Spell checked by word.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I thought I was doing "perty good".
I guess spell check does not catch all the mistakes I make.
Kidding aside I do appreciate the forum for helping me with my English class lessons.
I am 54 year old, can read and write now, but I graduated from high school and could not read, I learned later after school.
Did not use the computer like most people did, until I came to this great forum, so I am also computer illiterate.
This forum is teaching me more than recovery and refining metals.
Hope you can be patient with my grammar and point out how I can do better.
I am not stupid just still learning (will till I die).
Spell checked by word.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 8,361
Butcher, in my opinion, is one of the most valuable members of this forum. He has made monumental strides in his ability to converse with readers, and provides well founded opinions, instruction and guidance. He also has one characteristic that is very endearing---his ability to speak with others in a non-confrontational way. He's one of my heroes.
When the day comes I leave this forum, it will be with a request for Butcher to replace me as a moderator.
Harold
When the day comes I leave this forum, it will be with a request for Butcher to replace me as a moderator.
Harold
jimmydolittle
Well-known member
Harold, I totally agree with you! Butcher's knowledge is right up there.
Butcher, I thought you were doing more than just "pretty good".
And, you should take those words from Harold as a high honor indeed!
Good job, and keep it up... 8)
And, you should take those words from Harold as a high honor indeed!
Good job, and keep it up... 8)
philddreamer
Well-known member
Thank you Butcher!!! 8)
Phil
Phil
I put Harold on the top of my list of people who I admire, He has been like a father to the forum and many of us here on the forum in more ways than one, I have always had Great Respect for him although I have never met the man, he stands tall in my mind.
Although a normal guy he has made a tremendous impact I believe not only for many of us here on the forum in helping us, but also on the coming History of the world in general, partly through his work and devotion on the forum and to many of the members personally.
It is an truly an Honor for me that Harold would recommend me to become one of the members of the moderators, I just do not know that I could do as good of a job that our moderators do.
Harold has such a knack of seeing problems before they begin and nipping them in the bud, he is very insightful in many ways, My hope is the forum would never loose Harold We need him so much, this forum would not be this forum if it was not for Harold. Very few people in the world would have the knowledge we have access to today in this field if it was not for Harold, Harold has made a major change to the world.
Harold is a humble man, not full of pride, he may not see it but I do, and I think if I met him and he was this bearded opinionated little ole man, it would not change my opinion of him.
Thankyou jimmydolittle,Platdigger,philddreamer.
Although a normal guy he has made a tremendous impact I believe not only for many of us here on the forum in helping us, but also on the coming History of the world in general, partly through his work and devotion on the forum and to many of the members personally.
It is an truly an Honor for me that Harold would recommend me to become one of the members of the moderators, I just do not know that I could do as good of a job that our moderators do.
Harold has such a knack of seeing problems before they begin and nipping them in the bud, he is very insightful in many ways, My hope is the forum would never loose Harold We need him so much, this forum would not be this forum if it was not for Harold. Very few people in the world would have the knowledge we have access to today in this field if it was not for Harold, Harold has made a major change to the world.
Harold is a humble man, not full of pride, he may not see it but I do, and I think if I met him and he was this bearded opinionated little ole man, it would not change my opinion of him.
Thankyou jimmydolittle,Platdigger,philddreamer.
Hello
I have been reading this forum for over a year with nothing to contribuite, until Now. I purchased the Shor system before finding this forum. I had 5 pounds of gold relay contacts that I needed to process. I melted down 2 pounds into a bar and used the Shor system with NO results. I spent about $800 on the system and their supplies. After reading this forum for 1,000 hours and Holk's Book, I produced a 73 gram pure gold button out of the 2 pounds that i had left.
Thanks
Tim
I have been reading this forum for over a year with nothing to contribuite, until Now. I purchased the Shor system before finding this forum. I had 5 pounds of gold relay contacts that I needed to process. I melted down 2 pounds into a bar and used the Shor system with NO results. I spent about $800 on the system and their supplies. After reading this forum for 1,000 hours and Holk's Book, I produced a 73 gram pure gold button out of the 2 pounds that i had left.
Thanks
Tim
packrat63, Tim that is a good chunk of gold, sounds like studying is paying you back, good job.
This is unrelated to your gold, but is related to purifying gold through electrolisis the Emil Wohlwill patent.
Electrolysis pure gold
http://www.google.com/patents/about/625864_EMIL_WOHLWILL.html?id=Gs9EAAAAEBAJ
This is unrelated to your gold, but is related to purifying gold through electrolisis the Emil Wohlwill patent.
Electrolysis pure gold
http://www.google.com/patents/about/625864_EMIL_WOHLWILL.html?id=Gs9EAAAAEBAJ
Butcher
That was an excellent article thanks. 115 years ago that must have been a big operation with steam engines. I wonder why he used hydrochloric acid, when Sulfuric is more common in a cell today.
I forgot to mention one of the Best parts of Shor’s deal. After three weeks of trying to refine with their system, I was tired of wasting my time and materials. So I got out the original box to ship it back. They claimed to have a 30 day money back guarantee. When I got the guarantee out of the box, it stated that it must be in unused (NEW) condition.
So now I am stuck with a useless system with 2 or 3 gallons of salt water with possibly dissolved gold!
I have decided to make a copper cell out of this item, once I figure out how to handle the salt water.
Tim
That was an excellent article thanks. 115 years ago that must have been a big operation with steam engines. I wonder why he used hydrochloric acid, when Sulfuric is more common in a cell today.
I forgot to mention one of the Best parts of Shor’s deal. After three weeks of trying to refine with their system, I was tired of wasting my time and materials. So I got out the original box to ship it back. They claimed to have a 30 day money back guarantee. When I got the guarantee out of the box, it stated that it must be in unused (NEW) condition.
So now I am stuck with a useless system with 2 or 3 gallons of salt water with possibly dissolved gold!
I have decided to make a copper cell out of this item, once I figure out how to handle the salt water.
Tim
packrat63,
Just choke it up to the cost of education and move on.
Are you saying you have gold locked up in salt water, (what type of salt?) (chloride’s my guess) I assume, you should have no trouble retrieving the gold if so, even if it was contaminated with other metals.
Give us some details maybe we can help you put it into solution and test it and get the gold back if it is there.
Dilute sulfuric acid is used for electrolysis of copper.
The stripping cell uses concentrated sulfuric acid.
Sulfuric acid is like two different chemical’s (in reactions), depending on it's concentration.
Actually there can be many different types of electrolytes, depending on what your doing, some we can make gases for fuel like hydrogen, or split salts to make chemicals like chlorine (bleach) and sodium hydroxide, or to make batteries to power things.
Gold dissolves in chlorine gas at 200 degrees, (in electrolysis the electricity (moving of electrons with current flow) would split the acid or salt to form chlorine gas at the anode) assisted by the electron transfer this would form gold chloride in solution (same thing we make when we dissolve gold in aqua regia) Emil Wohlwill used Hcl (sometimes also adding other chloride salts like table salt), to generate chlorine at the anode to dissolve gold with the chlorine gas that formed, He would also adjust the amount of free HCL , current density and temperature so as not to have the dangerous chlorine gases evolving from the anode, the Idea was to generate three chlorine with one dissolved gold to form AuCl3 but not excess chlorine that would waste chemicals harm workers and ruin equipment. I believe Shore studied his many patients to form their process (Emil Wohlwill's patent also talked of using other chloride salts in his process like ammonium chloride, but says they can give trouble if platinum was involved) I do not think Shore reinvented the wheel but just changed the spokes some and the name of chemicals involved in their products. Also note that this process was taking almost pure gold anode (95%) and making it very pure, plating it to pure gold cathode and an awful lot of gold electrolyte solution so this system had a lot of gold tied up in the process.
There are more patents Emil Wohlwill and I am guessing his son another Wohlwill had so if your interested search for them to get more details.
Just choke it up to the cost of education and move on.
Are you saying you have gold locked up in salt water, (what type of salt?) (chloride’s my guess) I assume, you should have no trouble retrieving the gold if so, even if it was contaminated with other metals.
Give us some details maybe we can help you put it into solution and test it and get the gold back if it is there.
Dilute sulfuric acid is used for electrolysis of copper.
The stripping cell uses concentrated sulfuric acid.
Sulfuric acid is like two different chemical’s (in reactions), depending on it's concentration.
Actually there can be many different types of electrolytes, depending on what your doing, some we can make gases for fuel like hydrogen, or split salts to make chemicals like chlorine (bleach) and sodium hydroxide, or to make batteries to power things.
Gold dissolves in chlorine gas at 200 degrees, (in electrolysis the electricity (moving of electrons with current flow) would split the acid or salt to form chlorine gas at the anode) assisted by the electron transfer this would form gold chloride in solution (same thing we make when we dissolve gold in aqua regia) Emil Wohlwill used Hcl (sometimes also adding other chloride salts like table salt), to generate chlorine at the anode to dissolve gold with the chlorine gas that formed, He would also adjust the amount of free HCL , current density and temperature so as not to have the dangerous chlorine gases evolving from the anode, the Idea was to generate three chlorine with one dissolved gold to form AuCl3 but not excess chlorine that would waste chemicals harm workers and ruin equipment. I believe Shore studied his many patients to form their process (Emil Wohlwill's patent also talked of using other chloride salts in his process like ammonium chloride, but says they can give trouble if platinum was involved) I do not think Shore reinvented the wheel but just changed the spokes some and the name of chemicals involved in their products. Also note that this process was taking almost pure gold anode (95%) and making it very pure, plating it to pure gold cathode and an awful lot of gold electrolyte solution so this system had a lot of gold tied up in the process.
There are more patents Emil Wohlwill and I am guessing his son another Wohlwill had so if your interested search for them to get more details.
I agree a man must always move forward.
Today I siphoned all the electrolyte from the cell into a five gallon bucket. I have about 4 gallons of dark blue liquid with an ammonia type smell. It has 8 cups of Shors salt in. No residue of any kind in the tank. This item is going to be my new copper plating cell.
Thanks
Tim
Today I siphoned all the electrolyte from the cell into a five gallon bucket. I have about 4 gallons of dark blue liquid with an ammonia type smell. It has 8 cups of Shors salt in. No residue of any kind in the tank. This item is going to be my new copper plating cell.
Thanks
Tim
goldenchild
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,810
packrat63 said:
These were solid gold relays?
No.
They were on a copper arm with a gold alloy pad on the end, where two pads made the connection. These were large high voltage relays. The gold pad was the thickness of a penny and 1\3 the size of a penny with the copper arm about the same thickness. The gold striping cell would take 5 to 10 min for each one and get to hot to use after 3. I cut the pads off as close as possible which ended up being a waste of time. I ended up melting the arms and pads together, pouring shot, then nitric, AR, smb, washed several times then melted the 73 gram button.
Tim
They were on a copper arm with a gold alloy pad on the end, where two pads made the connection. These were large high voltage relays. The gold pad was the thickness of a penny and 1\3 the size of a penny with the copper arm about the same thickness. The gold striping cell would take 5 to 10 min for each one and get to hot to use after 3. I cut the pads off as close as possible which ended up being a waste of time. I ended up melting the arms and pads together, pouring shot, then nitric, AR, smb, washed several times then melted the 73 gram button.
Tim
