Electrochemistry Simple VS Complex Gold Salts

[Harold_V]

I believe if you would do the complete formulations without omitting normally canceled radicals you might just recognize an internal circuit separate from the straight DC and maybe not need intelligence boosters. Your grade-B+. Try for an A+
Dr. Poe

One more smart remark from you, good Dr., and you're going to find yourself on the outside of this forum, perhaps looking in. It's up to you.

I demand that you show respect to readers, but even more importantly, to Lou, who has earned his through hard work and dedication, along with keeping those of us, who lack his education, on the straight and narrow path.

You clearly do not play well with others. That is not going to be tolerated.

Harold

 

[Harold_V]

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO STOP CRYING AND REMEMBER NOBLE METALS IS WHAT WE ARE ALL AFTER. :mrgreen: I KNOW I AM THE SMARTEST. ITS SATURDAY,RELAX AND ENJOY LIFE.

Lose the caps.

Harold

 

[HAuCl4]

There is one thing that I have learned about self proclaimed "experts": They are usually experts in f... all. :shock:

 

[Dr. Poe]

Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to start a controversy.
Maybe I need to learn to have respect. Maybe others that don't understand should ask for more information without adding degrading marks and ridicule to their questions. Maybe it's their intention to try and chase away threats to their crowns or territories by goading one into a discourse, hoping that anger will swell, remarks made to instigate an ousting. Dr. Poe

 

[goldsilverpro]

Dr. Poe,

I have found this document, I have not studied it yet, I just glanced through it, in doing so I did see something that supports your theory that gold can sometimes plate to the anode, I will study it more and see what conditions are and so forth.

There is no doubt you’re a smart man, that has never been a question for me, my question has been are you stating accurate information (especially when it may differ from what we study), what has been your motive, is it to disrupt the forum and confuse, or is it to help.

I learned a long time ago the higher you climb the further the fall, and pride has a way of tipping us and making us fall.

We as a group need to understand you, and know you are one our side, also your attacks on our professional members, I think needs cleaned up, yes your motive was questioned, as with any of us here it may be, this is a community and its survival depends on its members.

No matter how smart a member is, the forum can get along fine without him, If you’re here to honestly help, and spread accurate information I think we all here like having your help, and if you toned down your pride we all would like to have you as a friend.

I have not written this as a threat, or to make you angry, in fact I see where you can be a very valuable asset to the forum, and can be a very valuable member, but remember we are a team, and we all must be team members and get along to help each other reach that one goal, and help to keep our beloved forum the best place to learn, and help each other.


http://www2.bren.ucsb.edu/~dturney/port/papers/Modern%20Electroplating/04.pdf

here is another I will read.

http://researchrepository.murdoch.edu.au/672/2/02Whole.pdf

Richard,

In that first link (good article, by the way), can you point me to the page that you said indicates that gold can be deposited at the anode? I was unable to find it.

Chris

 

[Lou]

Dr. Poe wrote:
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to start a controversy.
Maybe I need to learn to have respect. Maybe others that don't understand should ask for more information without adding degrading marks and ridicule to their questions. Maybe it's their intention to try and chase away threats to their crowns or territories by goading one into a discourse, hoping that anger will swell, remarks made to instigate an ousting. Dr. Poe


I'll certainly level that I've not been very nice to you in this post. Simply put, I don't understand what the post was about--it didn't make clear sense to me why it was posted or if it was a question or just a statement. I am confused by why you'd post it in the format you did. It's clear to me you know quite a bit of science, but your presentation and delivery are poor. I see now that you weren't trying to discuss a Wohwill cell of any sort (something which I think we should discuss, even though it's impractical to most here due to expense).

The article that Butcher posted is effectively a much more in-depth discussion of what you were talking about with most of the explanation for plating behaviors in the text.

At the risk of sounding like der English Nazi, please try and be as clear as possible when you post.

You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein

 

[goldsilverpro]

Dr.Poe,

I must admit that I'm much more interested in results than theory. Keeping this in mind, can you provide a step-by-step (1., 2., 3...) setup and operation procedure, with no theory, that would help prove your point that gold will deposit on the anode from a thiosulfate solution. By anode, I mean the electrode attached to the + lead from the rectifier or battery. In other words, something practical that anyone could follow and be able to duplicate your results. I know you did this somewhat at first, but most of your writing requires a lot of "wading through" to get at the meat. It would also help if you used more paragraphs.

 

[Dr. Poe]

Dr. Poe wrote:
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to start a controversy.
Maybe I need to learn to have respect. Maybe others that don't understand should ask for more information without adding degrading marks and ridicule to their questions. Maybe it's their intention to try and chase away threats to their crowns or territories by goading one into a discourse, hoping that anger will swell, remarks made to instigate an ousting. Dr. Poe


I'll certainly level that I've not been very nice to you in this post. Simply put, I don't understand what the post was about--it didn't make clear sense to me why it was posted or if it was a question or just a statement. I am confused by why you'd post it in the format you did. It's clear to me you know quite a bit of science, but your presentation and delivery are poor. I see now that you weren't trying to discuss a Wohwill cell of any sort (something which I think we should discuss, even though it's impractical to most here due to expense).

The article that Butcher posted is effectively a much more in-depth discussion of what you were talking about with most of the explanation for plating behaviors in the text.

At the risk of sounding like der English Nazi, please try and be as clear as possible when you post.

You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein

It all started with the Ferrell's steel anode and cathode. They were trying to up grade from steel wool cementation. I stated that the gold would plate upon the anode. Then the brains had a stroke. Not possible they wrote, total BS, your integrity is in danger they wrote. Yet none of these brains could grasp a simple interaction between electroplating and cementation.
When the rules of cementation supersede the rules of electrodeposition. No, I don't recognize the authors of those books, reports and PHD depositions as having superior experience to mine. In 2010, I critiqued a refining book that was very informative and correct in almost everything. They made one mistake in the entire book. That mistake would have cost the lives of everyone entering the room within seconds. Their mistake was to print chlorine when the correct answer was bromine. It was referring to cyanide leaching. Their fatal mistake was in not understanding that chlorine combines with cyanide and vaporizes at room temperature. Had they used bromine, they wouldn't have put instant death into the room's atmosphere. So false humility from me is an evil thing. Whenever I give further information, it should be digested, tested
before rebuked. If the rebuke come, then let it be civil and leave out the comments like 'BS'. Everyone knows what 'BS' means and that it certainly is an invitation to a dispute. Dr. Poe

 

[qst42know]

Most of the chem speak went right over my head. Though I did understand the insults from all sides.

I would ask why a reactive iron anode was used in the first place. :?: Isn't it usual and customary to select inert materials for both anode and cathode to keep things simple and predictable.

 

[Lou]

I've used chlorine to destroy cyanide in basic solution:

http://www.nmfrc.org/bluebook/sec623.htm

You must refer to the interaction of dry chlorine with dry cyanide. Bromine also produces a poisonous compound, although cyanogen bromide is a solid not a gas. In any case, I'm interested in knowing which refining book this was.

 

[butcher]

"In that first link (good article, by the way), can you point me to the page that you said indicates that gold can be deposited at the anode? I was unable to find it." GSP

http://www2.bren.ucsb.edu/~dturney/port/papers/Modern%20Electroplating/04.pdf


Chris, what I thought I saw when first scanning the article was not what I thought it was after reading it more closely, I still have not had time to finish studying as I have been busy working.

actually I have been trying to find something to support Dr. Poe's statments, that metals of gold or salts of gold plate out on the anode,

when scanning the article they were talking of :
Quote article paragraph:
The potentials for reduction of Au(III) to Au, and Au(III) to Au(I) (as shown in table 4.1) are important because Au(III) can also be used as the source of gold in baths in place of Au(I),
and Au(III) can also be formed at the Anode during plating through the oxidation of Au(I).

after closer reading I see they were not talking about any gold or salt depositing on the anode (as far as I can tell), but they were speaking of the gold in solutions changing oxidation states (still in solution) (exchange of electron but not plating out),( is the way I read that).

I still need more reading of the article, but all tht I can find so far, including this article says that gold (missing one or more electrons, in these electrolytic baths (will not deposit to the anode as salt or gold), but that it plates out at the cathode where it gains electron, or electrons from the power source.

GSP if you look at the table 4.1, of all of the different gold electrolytic baths, every one of them gain electrons, (which can only happen at the cathode),(the catode supplys fresh electrons from the power supply), most all seperate the gold from the anions and plate out gold as metal at the cathode, the half reactions one's at the bottom of the table suggest not getting all of their electrons and remain as salts or compounds, (I do not know and will study more to find out, if these would plate to cathode), ( I feel they would remain as salts in solution and plate out the gold later as in the half reations listed above these, in the table 4.1)

here is something to consider, a battery has a positive pole and negative pole.
we call these terminals a specific name using the terms anode and cathode.
when actually the battery polarity is switched depending if we are discharging the battery or charging the battery, but we do not chage the names of these poles, and of course the electrons flow opposite directions,and so on,I am still just wonder if all of this is just a confusion of what name to call what pole.

I have done much studying in electronics and battery's (many years) , and in the last few years electrochemisty of seperating, salts and metals or production of chemicals in cells, and I have to admit it can be very confusing to keep track of it (it can be a very confusing subject at times), then Mr. Poe says some things that start making me doubt what I thought I know, or if there are other conditions that I have not heard of where things may differ, I want to learn the answer to this question, and I am like a hound dog when I get on a trail of questions, I will not give up easily till I find the answers, or drowned in trying, even if the ole coon (elusive answers to my questions) I am after tries to hold this ole dogs head underwater.

Dr. Poe can you produce something written (book, science papers, studies) that state where the gold plates out to the anode as metal or salts (more than just a temporary deposition), is this just a rare occurance, or commonplace, in any of these solutions? Is this just a rare occurance? or commonplace? I am interested in facts, and this fact I have not been able to find yet, and do wish to know the truth even if it is not what I believe it to be.

but I have to say, I have never met you face to face, so I cannot just believe something because someone I have never met say's it is so, especially when it is polar to the way I learned it.

edit non working link to document in discussion.

 

[Dr. Poe]

[we call these terminals a specific name using the terms anode and cathode.
when actually the battery polarity is switched depending if we are discharging the battery or charging the battery, but we do not change the names of these poles, and of course the electrons flow opposite directions,and so on,I am still just wonder if all of this is just a confusion of what name to call what pole.]

Butcher, you might just have nailed down the reason for the controversy. In plating, I use a car battery charger.
Good work, Butcher. Dr. Poe

 

[goldsilverpro]

[we call these terminals a specific name using the terms anode and cathode.
when actually the battery polarity is switched depending if we are discharging the battery or charging the battery, but we do not change the names of these poles, and of course the electrons flow opposite directions,and so on,I am still just wonder if all of this is just a confusion of what name to call what pole.]

Butcher, you might just have nailed down the reason for the controversy. In plating, I use a car battery charger.
Good work, Butcher. Dr. Poe

Dr.Poe. Welcome to the forum!

 

[HAuCl4]

There is one thing that I have learned about self proclaimed "experts": They are usually experts in f... all. :shock:

 

[Lino1406]

I repeat: gold will emerge in the cathode. No principal difference
between Au(CN)2- and Au(S2O3)---. The naming of poles is
opposite for battery (which normally discharges) and
electroplating (normally 'charged').

 

[AlZabrisky]

I hope that all this is not just sort of subliminal mind massaging of members, to establish some sort of professional credibility before starting to offer some "innovations and new creations" for sale.

I assume the confusion is over.
More importantly, I am concerned about the consequences of the "confusion". Was the forum a victim of an effort for some to advertise their "expertise" with purpose to profit from those with limited knowledge of the unique science of gold extraction and gold metallurgy? Any form of solicitation should be keenly examined and treated with utmost caution. Remuneration is usually a function of what one does or did, and certainly not what one CAN or WILL do. During tense economic situations, poor decisions could be made with hope for riches or financial relief.
I caution all members, there is no substitute for proven science and technology, anything beyond could be labelled "magic" or as some might say, "witchcraft".

Dr ALZabrisky.

 

[HAuCl4]

This thread is hilarious, but to truly appreciate the humor, one must know what an anode is. I'm sure that's not covered in any of the chapters of Dr Poe's $10 Million book.:lol:

 

[AlZabrisky]

This thread is hilarious, but to truly appreciate the humor, one must know what an anode is. I'm sure that's not covered in any of the chapters of Dr Poe's $10 Million book.:lol:

:lol:
Returning my copy for a full refund + shipping, handling and insurance.
Will wait for the edited version.

Dr AlZabrisky.

 

[rusty]

This thread is hilarious, but to truly appreciate the humor, one must know what an anode is. I'm sure that's not covered in any of the chapters of Dr Poe's $10 Million book.:lol:

:lol:
Returning my copy for a full refund + shipping, handling and insurance.
Will wait for the edited version.

Dr AlZabrisky.

I'll settle for what Dr.Poe is willing to contribute freely to the forum.

 

[HAuCl4]

Try lecithin by mouth once a day. Within 21 days you should see improvement. Dr. Poe

Try not to overdose Dr.! :lol: