aflacglobal
Well-known member
lazersteve said:
:evil: :evil: :evil:
***** The Platinumill Exposed and on Trial *****
- Thread starter hvyshakes1
- Start date
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Hey Steve/Ralph the honeycomb is an insulator but what about hooking up and putting juice to the can? Crank it up and get it a nice glowing red? Spoke with kitco, they pay 86% of pt,rh,pd after their assay comes in (up to 6 weeks) he said it takes this long to value the rh,,,,, so i suppose( as mentioned here on this forum) the rh doesnt really dissolve well with this leaching process. even to have enough material to send to kitco, you will have a good amount of $$ tied up in cats, better have deep pockets if you are buying cats for this venture, 1. you buy 100 cats for 100per ($10,000) 2. you process and send out material, you only recover 60-80% of the pgm's by leaching, so now you have to save your material (substrate) till you get a ton so the big boy's (techemet etc) will proccess it. The pgm's you did recover need to be sent off and you will recieve no pay for 6 weeks. If the 100cats have have only $150? of Pgm's this could be a very difficult venture, you better have deep pockets! Or alot of cheap&free cats! Now once you start doing more and more cats the values for your efforts go up and things work out better, but as far as doing this for a living and making some real cash, its all or nothing, your either in or out, unless your doing this as a hobby and trying to do a few cats and refine the metals yourself, good for you, you like chemisty. My hobbies include 4wheelers and sand dunes etc... The point I'm making is do not be disillusioned by making big money on cats , unless you have big $ to get them and the time to wait for the cash, it can be done , but like any buisness it has overhead& and the right way to do things, that being said, I am fortunate enough to have all the cats I want with no upfront cost, ( I will be paying after they are proccesed and I am paid) that way my only cost is my initial setup&time and a few chems. on the way to my pathway to riches!!! I almost have all the things I need to get started, some are on the way, I will be able to process 25-30lb 2x a day and the equipment all cost under a $1000, and I didnt skimp, I actually bought a real rectifier instead of a battery charger, a larger one that will allow for expansion of my operation in the future. This has been a fun process but the fun is just about to start, SHOW ME THEY MONEY! In an email to BSF (formerly engelhard) I asked, What is your process of turning my PGM"S to food (cash) ha..... Like I said this has been fun and all, but I cant wait to see the final results. I'm tired of seeing my wife roll her eyes with another crazy idea...... We'll see who gets the last laugh. My wifes is great by the way, she's my best friend and very supportive, Check ya'll later, Frog
aflacglobal
Well-known member
Aflac !!!!
I'm doing my own special rework of the Platinumill.
This one is going to be simple but not exactly cheap. I have added all the proper control equipment and bells and whistles. All parameters are controlled either manually or automated. Their are no knobs to turn on this one. All items are top of the line, nothing from wally world. ( no pun
) Long story short. I figure if Platinum is going to crash and burn someone needs to pick up the slack. This one is for the serious minded processor. Oh and i think i might even be able to offer financing :wink:
Just something to think about.
Question : i think the PGM's are plasma deposited on the substrate honeycomb. I think the base is Si. Does anyone have a good idea of the thickness of the plating or a complete make up of the cat material including layers and thicknesses.
I'm doing my own special rework of the Platinumill.
This one is going to be simple but not exactly cheap. I have added all the proper control equipment and bells and whistles. All parameters are controlled either manually or automated. Their are no knobs to turn on this one. All items are top of the line, nothing from wally world. ( no pun
) Long story short. I figure if Platinum is going to crash and burn someone needs to pick up the slack. This one is for the serious minded processor. Oh and i think i might even be able to offer financing :wink: Just something to think about.
Question : i think the PGM's are plasma deposited on the substrate honeycomb. I think the base is Si. Does anyone have a good idea of the thickness of the plating or a complete make up of the cat material including layers and thicknesses.
jimdoc
Well-known member
This is a good book to get if you really want to learn about
converters;
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9783527304912&itm=12
They are sold out, but maybe you can find it at your library
or another store or Ebay.
Jim
converters;
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9783527304912&itm=12
They are sold out, but maybe you can find it at your library
or another store or Ebay.
Jim
Found this on ebay today! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SCRAP-Catalytic-Converter-Leaching-Machine-removes-PGMs_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33629QQihZ017QQitemZ270209698423QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW hope its not anyone we know, wonder if its a platinumill? what a hunk o' junk, cheap battery charger, he hid the pump and model, the valves are cheap home depot with the metal screws in them (metal screws!!!) I was the one that left comments at the bottom...... Poor chump, he's trying to pawn it off on someone else....
aflacglobal
Well-known member
It's a first generation platinumill.
That's what i don't want. I'll give you a rundown on my ideas later. That's the one i was talking about building for a thousand or less. I think that is cheezy.
That's what i don't want. I'll give you a rundown on my ideas later. That's the one i was talking about building for a thousand or less. I think that is cheezy.
The guy just wrote me an email, he feels terrible, I reffered him to here, someone ought to turn platinumill onto the BBB or sue him, the cheap azz battery charger, the metal screws in the cheap valves from home depot, and I bet the pump doesnt move enough fluids, Heavyshakes said he had no flow on his,, for 8g's platinumill ought to do everything for you, exact way to open cans,buy cats,list values of specific cats, what acids to use, carbon removal, who will take you material , what they charge ,phone #s ,address of the refiner, person to do the assay, information that it takes 6 weeks to get the rh assayd correctly, what to do with your old acids blaa, bllaaabla,,, this guy sells nothing but a few cheap parts, I hate it when people get screwed.. Frog
aflacglobal
Well-known member
Is that plywood and painted 2x4's . OMG :shock:
aflacglobal
Well-known member
Catalytic converter substrates
A substrate is a substance on which some other substance is absorbed or in which it is absorbed.
Catalytic converters are used to reduce the amounts of nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, and un-reacted hydrocarbons in automotive emissions. (Catalytic conversion requires a precisely balanced air-to-fuel ratio, hence the need for oxygen sensors such as those described in conductive ceramics: Oxygen sensors to aid in feedback control of fuel injection.) In dual-bed converter systems the exhaust gases are first reduced in order to eliminate the oxides of nitrogen; then they are oxidized with added air in order to eliminate carbon monoxide and unburned hydrocarbons. In more advanced three-way converters individual catalysts accomplish reduction of each species simultaneously.
Catalysts are either platinum-group metals or base metals such as chromium, nickel, and copper. Platinum-group metals or noble metals are any of several metallic chemical elements that have outstanding resistance to oxidation, even at high temperatures; the grouping is not strictly defined but usually is considered to include rhenium, ruthenium, rhodium, palladium, silver, osmium, iridium, platinum, and gold. Silver and gold, which with copper are often called the coinage metals, and platinum, iridium, and palladium comprise the so-called precious metals, which are used in jewellery.
In base-metal catalysts the active surfaces are actually ceramic oxides of the metals. Because platinum metals are extremely expensive, they are deposited on ceramic catalyst supports as salts and then reduced to finely divided metal particles.
For efficiency of conversion, extremely large surface areas are required. These are accomplished by ingenious micro-structural engineering of the ceramic support structure. Two types of structure are made pellets and honeycomb monoliths. The pellets are porous beads approximately 3 millimetres (1/8 inch) in diameter. With a single pellet having up to 10 square millimetres of internal pore surface area, one litre of pellets can have up to 500,000 square metres of support surface. The pellet material is often alumina (aluminium oxide, Al2O3). High internal porosity is achieved by carefully burning off the organic additives and by incomplete sintering. Honeycomb monoliths have 1,000 to 2,000 longitudinal pores approximately one millimetre in size separated by thin walls. The material is commonly cordierite, a magnesium aluminosilicate (Mg2Al4Si5O18) known for its low thermal expansion. The extruded cordierite structure is coated with a wash of alumina, which in turn supports the platinum catalyst particles. The surface area of the monolith is typically in the range of one square metre; however, this figure must be multiplied many times because of the porosity of the alumina on the surface.
Monolith supports are much more expensive than pellet supports, but they cause a smaller pressure drop in the exhaust system. Both types of catalyst support, because of their inherent friability, are susceptible to vibrational degradation. Containment of the supports is also difficult. A good seal must be achieved and maintained without imposing external stresses on the friable structure.
Conductive ceramics: Oxygen sensors
Schematic diagram of a zirconia oxygen sensor used to monitor automobile exhaust gases. The sensor, approximately the size of a spark plug, is fitted into the exhaust manifold of an automobile engine. The thimble-shaped zirconia sensor, sandwiched between thin layers of porous platinum, is exposed on its interior to outside air and on its exterior to exhaust gas passing through slits in the sensor shield. The two platinum surfaces serve as electrodes, conducting a voltage across the zirconia that varies according to the difference in oxygen content between the exhaust gas and the outside air.
A substrate is a substance on which some other substance is absorbed or in which it is absorbed.
Catalytic converters are used to reduce the amounts of nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, and un-reacted hydrocarbons in automotive emissions. (Catalytic conversion requires a precisely balanced air-to-fuel ratio, hence the need for oxygen sensors such as those described in conductive ceramics: Oxygen sensors to aid in feedback control of fuel injection.) In dual-bed converter systems the exhaust gases are first reduced in order to eliminate the oxides of nitrogen; then they are oxidized with added air in order to eliminate carbon monoxide and unburned hydrocarbons. In more advanced three-way converters individual catalysts accomplish reduction of each species simultaneously.
Catalysts are either platinum-group metals or base metals such as chromium, nickel, and copper. Platinum-group metals or noble metals are any of several metallic chemical elements that have outstanding resistance to oxidation, even at high temperatures; the grouping is not strictly defined but usually is considered to include rhenium, ruthenium, rhodium, palladium, silver, osmium, iridium, platinum, and gold. Silver and gold, which with copper are often called the coinage metals, and platinum, iridium, and palladium comprise the so-called precious metals, which are used in jewellery.
In base-metal catalysts the active surfaces are actually ceramic oxides of the metals. Because platinum metals are extremely expensive, they are deposited on ceramic catalyst supports as salts and then reduced to finely divided metal particles.
For efficiency of conversion, extremely large surface areas are required. These are accomplished by ingenious micro-structural engineering of the ceramic support structure. Two types of structure are made pellets and honeycomb monoliths. The pellets are porous beads approximately 3 millimetres (1/8 inch) in diameter. With a single pellet having up to 10 square millimetres of internal pore surface area, one litre of pellets can have up to 500,000 square metres of support surface. The pellet material is often alumina (aluminium oxide, Al2O3). High internal porosity is achieved by carefully burning off the organic additives and by incomplete sintering. Honeycomb monoliths have 1,000 to 2,000 longitudinal pores approximately one millimetre in size separated by thin walls. The material is commonly cordierite, a magnesium aluminosilicate (Mg2Al4Si5O18) known for its low thermal expansion. The extruded cordierite structure is coated with a wash of alumina, which in turn supports the platinum catalyst particles. The surface area of the monolith is typically in the range of one square metre; however, this figure must be multiplied many times because of the porosity of the alumina on the surface.
Monolith supports are much more expensive than pellet supports, but they cause a smaller pressure drop in the exhaust system. Both types of catalyst support, because of their inherent friability, are susceptible to vibrational degradation. Containment of the supports is also difficult. A good seal must be achieved and maintained without imposing external stresses on the friable structure.
Conductive ceramics: Oxygen sensors
Schematic diagram of a zirconia oxygen sensor used to monitor automobile exhaust gases. The sensor, approximately the size of a spark plug, is fitted into the exhaust manifold of an automobile engine. The thimble-shaped zirconia sensor, sandwiched between thin layers of porous platinum, is exposed on its interior to outside air and on its exterior to exhaust gas passing through slits in the sensor shield. The two platinum surfaces serve as electrodes, conducting a voltage across the zirconia that varies according to the difference in oxygen content between the exhaust gas and the outside air.
jbautosales
Member
YES it's me on Ebay don't know what else to do
Well Bob, I don't know that we can help you get your money back on the platinumill from that obvious fraud, but I do know that we can tell you how to recover PGMs from cats with ways that have been tried and tested. Should help take the bite out of your situation.
Welcome to the forum, there's a wealth of information here. Many pictures of processes, what the compounds look like, and first hand experience can be had here. If you've got questions on how to do something, just ask a question! You'll find this community to be very supportive of your endeavors and extremely helpful in doing things right the first time. I've been continually astonished by the quality members here--there's people from all walks of life having many perspectives.
That said, make yourself right at home, stay awhile.
Lou
Welcome to the forum, there's a wealth of information here. Many pictures of processes, what the compounds look like, and first hand experience can be had here. If you've got questions on how to do something, just ask a question! You'll find this community to be very supportive of your endeavors and extremely helpful in doing things right the first time. I've been continually astonished by the quality members here--there's people from all walks of life having many perspectives.
That said, make yourself right at home, stay awhile.
Lou
Hi Bob, good to see you here, like I posted in the email, read, read, read, then ask, ask, ask I think your setup can be modified to work properly. you may start out with just a little material, the material in your pics looks like powder, that may clog your system, broken substrate will allow the acids to flow better, your battery charger will not do( it will cut on/off, you will need a rectifier, get a good used one or buy a new one, I have a25amp on the way, bought it from www.caswellplating.com (thx Rob!heavyshakes) they have different sizes, not sure what you will need What pump do you have? gallons per minute? you prob. dont have a good enough pump? You can find these pumps anywhere, a good low budget march pump should do http://www.marchpump.com/right.htm ,,,they have a dealer locator on there site.....find something non-metal to thread into those screw holes, use alittle liquid teflon with it. Hope this helps, Frog
aflacglobal
Well-known member
Welcome to the forum Bob. :wink:
aflacglobal
Well-known member
markqf1 said:
Refractory compositions to stand the high heat.
jbautosales
Member
Thank you all for your support any other thoughts on how to put Diller out for good so nobody else gets ripped yes I will need help it I have to do this. later BOB :x
jbautosales
Member
I have read all posts I used a wood splitter for decanning crushes them up pretty good then crushed the rest by hand diller said to roast in grill up to 300 degrees I let it go to 350 400 for 20 minutes seemed to work put in a turkey pan stirring now and then
jimdoc
Well-known member
I think you should be able to get it to work.
If you get the DVD from Action Mining it will
help with instructions, that is who sells the
CLS26P anyway. They sell a book on CLS
leaching also that should give you some help.
Maybe if you try one column batches at a
time, untill you get it right.
I plan on building my own system, and even
after hearing about the platinumills problems
I think that I will get it right. You just need to
do small scale practice tests first before you
scale up. I didn't trust platinumills from the
start, it just seemed like a ripoff of Action
Minings System IV, and didn't sound like he
had all the bugs out of his system before he
started his production. So don't give up on
your system if it doesn't sell, you are at the
right place to find help. What exactly is the
problem with your system besides lack of
instructions? Jim
If you get the DVD from Action Mining it will
help with instructions, that is who sells the
CLS26P anyway. They sell a book on CLS
leaching also that should give you some help.
Maybe if you try one column batches at a
time, untill you get it right.
I plan on building my own system, and even
after hearing about the platinumills problems
I think that I will get it right. You just need to
do small scale practice tests first before you
scale up. I didn't trust platinumills from the
start, it just seemed like a ripoff of Action
Minings System IV, and didn't sound like he
had all the bugs out of his system before he
started his production. So don't give up on
your system if it doesn't sell, you are at the
right place to find help. What exactly is the
problem with your system besides lack of
instructions? Jim
